Black actress as queen of England

[Delulu Rogers 6,410]

47 minutes ago, FentyGa said:

i also stated several arguments, but you don’t wanna argue against those, i guess lol

of where the problem really lies. if you want a completely accurate portrayal of history, and your one problem is the race of the cast, you should probably think about why.

but...this is literally a discussion about race. the name of the thread is “Black actress as queen of England”

also, as i said before, anne’s story isn’t affected by race. race isn’t a factor in her story.

oprah being a black woman is a significant part of her story, growing up black in the US in the 20th century, breaking daytime tv boundaries, and becoming the richest african american in the 1900s. it’s not the same thing.

You bring up interesting points and I agree with the whole « race isn’t a factor in her story » but then by that logic, ppl shouldn’t have a problem with white ppl playing Jesus for example. The Jesus example is the best one to show that movies are artistic representation etc and since Jesus loved everyone and the whole story may even be false, then why do so many ppl have a problem with who plays him. It seems the logic of « artistic representation and race isn’t a factor to their story » works one way but not the other. We all know that a white person playing any non-white role under the same claims would receive huge backlash and outrage. 

[FentyGa 14,340]

32 minutes ago, Regina George said:

Okay I understand your point of view and even tho I don’t necessarily agree with it I respect it. Sorry if what I said came off as something ignorant or rude. I would honestly just like to see some real black stories being told to people instead of this. 

ofc you didn’t, i respect your pov as well

and i understand that last point, but the way i see it is black stories should also be told. the story of anne boleyn is interesting, and definitely should be told, the two aren’t mutually exclusive.

honestly the real villain here is the companies that keep remaking the same films and shows, rebooting things that have been done before instead of telling new stories

[Economy 44,232]

26 minutes ago, Wet Fire said:

I personally don't mind it at all. Because her story doesn't really have a racial undertone in early 16th century England, so her appearance as a black woman isn't going to influence anything for a 21st century audience (it would have been different if Abraham Lincoln is shown as a black man, because his story does have a racial association with African-Americans and slavery).

Still, I feel like this type of casting basically draws the focus away from the actual racial inequality in the entertainment industry. I mean, casting a black woman in one major role in movies isn't going to change the fact of racism which affects the day-to-day lived experience of black actors and other black people working in the industry. More opportunities have to provided to black actors in films that do not have the theme of race and racism.

If u take out the racial aspect out of the story completely and the fictional story has 0 impact to it i actually agree with this. The skin tone is just a feature like hair colour or hair style, or weight or height that may not be accurately represented and no one says anything if those things arent acurately portrayed

 

But its just been my observation that ppl put race on a totally different category to the other features given the history of race so they usually like ACCURACY when it comes to race so im just surprised suddenly so many ppl are ok with this when usually its a problem

 

But based on ur line of reasoning (which i actually agree with reading it) yeah i think its fine

[FentyGa 14,340]

9 minutes ago, Wet Fire said:

Thank you for raising a very important point.

Although I do understand why people aren't going to agree with what you said. I think those who don't agree have this point to make: if we show Anne Boleyn as a black woman and do not show that she had to suffer due to her skin colour amid a white surrounding, this would be a historical erasure of racial tension which might have prevailed in early 16th century England. We cannot think of Othello's story without thinking about race. A non-white man must have drawn racial injustice. So, today, seeing Anne Boleyn as a black woman and not seeing her suffer due to her skin colour might feel wrong to many viewers.

Though, personally I don't mind the casting because it's going to normalize black actors playing 'white roles' in the eyes of a 21st century audience to an extent.

i understand that, it’s definitely a valid point

that said, i think it’s important to make the distinction between a fictional series, and a history book. i think a creative re-interpretation, where the society shown is post-racial, should be seen as a valid portrayal, without being held to the standards of a documentary. 

[GagaSine 7,464]

13 minutes ago, Economy said:

I dont totally or strongly disagree with ur points u been making in our discussion so far but i dont totally agree with everything uve said so far either

 

Maybe ill just leave it at that that we have a slightly different opinion on some angles of it. I dont want to argue

I don’t want to argue with you either, we’ve disagreed in the past many times and I don’t mean to denigrate you I just think your perspective is so different that I have hard time understanding it

re: double standards, I never see people this up in arms and so many white ppl complaining when a white actor portrays a black character which still happens. Yet when the reverse happens it’s a huge media story and controversy and history is being erased apparently. Doesn’t that seem to indicate a double standard to you? 

In a movie about stonewall that came out a few years ago they had a white actor throw the first brick, when everyone knows (or the story goes) that Marsha P Johnson a black trans woman threw the first brick. How many black trans actors are regularly getting roles in movies verses white men? I guarantee you it’s like a 10-90 split and that is a highly optimistic estimate, maybe 1-99 is more realistic.

So do you see the issue?

eta: this happens less in historical films now (roles for poc being erased) but it happens a lot in fiction adaptations still. So many black characters in books get portrayed by white people in film versions, i’m on my way to work but i’m Sure I could find a list. The last air bender movie (where the cartoon specifically portrayed characters inspired by various Asian & Inuit cultures but the movie cast white kids in primary roles) and that zombie movie with Nicholas hoult where the girl was black in the book but white in the movie come to mind. Also running with scissors where in the novel the main characters friend is an obese girl but the film cast waifish Evan Rachel wood bc god Forbid you see a fat person in a movie that isn’t a comedy. Those are actual double standards.

[vyniildisk 12,689]

3 minutes ago, MillionReasons07 said:

Jesus was not white?

Nope, he was middle eastern 

[LaLa 18,697]

I just watched the recent Netflix show Bridgerton where Queen  Charlotte was played by a Black actress and I haven’t heard any complaints about that? 

What a weird thing to get upset about! Literally everything else about this show will be historical fiction too! The dialogue, plot, setting, clothes...none will be 100% historically accurate.  “It’s not realistic!!!!!!” literally so what? 

[FentyGa 14,340]

3 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

You bring up interesting points and I agree with the whole « race isn’t a factor in her story » but then by that logic, ppl shouldn’t have a problem with white ppl playing Jesus for example. The Jesus example is the best one to show that movies are artistic representation etc and since Jesus loved everyone and the whole story may even be false, then why do so many ppl have a problem with who plays him. It seems the logic of « artistic representation and race isn’t a factor to their story » works one way but not the other. We all know that a white person playing any non-white role under the same claims would receive huge backlash and outrage. 

while i understand your point, i think the reason why so many people have an issue with Jesus being played by white men is that he has always been portrayed as white. the majority of the depictions we see of Jesus are white, whether that be in paintings, carved on crossings, or in film, to the point that many truly believe that he was white, though he likely wasn’t.

[Economy 44,232]

Just now, GagaSine said:

I don’t want to argue with you either, we’ve disagreed in the past many times and I don’t mean to denigrate you I just think your perspective is so different that I have hard time understanding it

re: double standards, I never see people this up in arms and so many white ppl complaining when a white actor portrays a black character which still happens. Yet when the reverse happens it’s a huge media sorry and controversy and history is being erased apparently. Doesn’t that seem to indicate a double standard to you?

In a movie about stonewall that came out a few years ago they had a white actor throw the first brick, when everyone knows (or the story goes) that Marsha P Johnson a black trans woman threw the first brick. How many black trans actors are regularly getting roles in movies verses white men? I guarantee you it’s like a 10-90 split and that is a highly optimistic estimate, maybe 1-99 is more realistic.

So do you see the issue?

It is a double standard i agree and shoukdnt happen. But the same ppl who tend to get very angry at it are the same ppl that justify the same double standard when its in reverse. Thats the mentality i dont get. U advocate against something u think is wrong but then do the same thing because its been done in reverse. So how do u expect the other side to take u seriously?

 

Now there is the argument to make that when it comes to acting oppurtunities POC often dont have the same level of oppurtunities whites have had and on that basis i can understand and support the idea of casting more POC roles in general. I also get why for this reason its bad to take away black characters and then slap it with a white actor. Again i do think thats bad and that only adds to the problem of less oppurtunity for actors that are POC and should not be tolerated either

 

Again what i dont get is the double standard for the same thing in reverse. If both whites and POC were held to the same standard of playing their own roles (of real characters) the issue of less oppurtunities wouldnt exist in the first place (provided when its for fictional characters as well there was the same push for inclusion which is key to overall oppurtunity)

[hankhatesyouall 2,731]

1 minute ago, Economy said:

If u take out the racial aspect out of the story completely and the fictional story has 0 impact to it i actually agree with this. The skin tone is just a feature like hair colour or hair style, or weight or height that may not be accurately represented and no one says anything if those things arent acurately portrayed

 

But its just been my observation that ppl put race on a totally different category to the other features and like ACCURACY when it comes to race so im just surprised suddenly so many ppl are ok with this when usually they are fighting a more race blind view on stories where race isnt a core issue to the story. 

 

But based on ur line of reasoning (which i actually agree with reading it) yeah i think its fine

I'm not surprised at all. These people are up in arms about Elizabeth Taylor portraying Cleopatra when there's overwhelming evidence that she was a white woman of Macedonian descent while being totally OK with a black actress being the queen of England. Suddenly, it's just a movie and it's not supposed to be historically accurate. This is just Olympic-level mental gymnastics here. Liberals will twist logic to justify their narrative.   

I'm not surprised by anything anymore. 

 

[GagaSine 7,464]

Also I think it’s a little effed up that people need to see a black woman be on the receiving end of racial bigotry so that it can be historically accurate. I see black ppl talk about how white ppl only seem to care about media portrayals of black suffering & it certainly seems to ring true.

[Born This Way 1,675]

I mean, it's just some stunt casting from some TV channel? They aren't going back in time and making Anne Boleyn black. There will always be historically accurate depictions of her for as long as people still care about all those people.

[GagaSine 7,464]

1 minute ago, Economy said:

It is a double standard i agree and shoukdnt happen. But the same ppl who tend to get very angry at it are the same ppl that justify the same double standard when its in reverse. Thats the mentality i dont get. U advocate against something u think is wrong but then do the same thing because its been done in reverse. So how do u expect the other side to take u seriously?

 

Now there is the argument to make that when it comes to acting oppurtunities POC often dont have the same level of oppurtunities whites have had and on that basis i can understand and support the idea of casting more POC roles in general. I also get why for this reason its bad to take away black characters and then slap it with a white actor. Again i do think thats bad and that only adds to the problem of less oppurtunity for actors that are POC and should not be tolerated either

 

Again what i dont get is the double standard for the same thing in reverse. If both whites and POC were held to the same standard of playing their own roles (of real characters) the issue of less oppurtunities wouldnt exist in the first place (provided when its for fictional characters as well there was the same push for inclusion which is key to overall oppurtunity)

We do not live in a post racial society tho so that’s why it’s not the same

[Economy 44,232]

7 minutes ago, Dulo Peep said:

Nope, he was middle eastern 

Based on the race he supposibly was depicted as he would probably be a very light brown or very tanned white. Almost white tone but still Arab.

 

not all parts of middle east have the same typical range of colour. In Saudi Arabia for example they tend to be darker than in Lebanon or even Israel

[GagaSine 7,464]

Just now, Economy said:

Based on the race he supposibly was depicted as he would probably be a very light brown or very tanned white. Almost white tone but still Arab.

 

not all parts of middle east have the same typical range of colour. In Saudi Arabia for example they tend to be darker than in Lebanon or even Israel

Economy coming thru with the Pantone colours of race