Economy 52,844 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 27 minutes ago, PartySick said: Many members here are part of the "eat the rich" party including myself Rich people are the biggest leeches on our society, no question. Low wages, high prices, lower general tax revenue, lobbying to cut regulations that protect workers' rights and the environment...I have no trouble saying f*ck 'em all It's crazy how much I agree with all this and agree so much with the left leaning in principal yet still get annoyed at how incomplete or unrealistic some of thoughts on the left are especially with oversimplifying certain things Not talking about u on the second part tho I mean in general Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 172,489 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 15 minutes ago, Woolfsmck said: I agree, many politicians protect corporate profits to line their own pockets in campaign donation ect... Many Democrats do the same thing.. Blaming conservatives to this current state of political corruption is simply party loyalty ... The tax code favors the corporations because the 'buy' legislative decisions ... Its not a 'conservative' tenent any more than taxing everyone to death is a liberal one ... The propaganda that opposing candidates throw at each other dilute the real problems . That was kinda my point. I don't blame conservatives as much as I blame uneducated Republican voters and their twisted politicians. Sure, some Democrats are crappy too but nowhere near as bad If Republican voters would just pay attention and vote for real conservatives instead of the garbage they currently send to state governments and the federal government then there wouldn't be an issue. We'd have politicians that disagree but were able to find a functional common ground at least. We went on a tangent Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, PartySick said: We can solve this easily. California, Oregon, and several New England states have the highest tax burdens. They're also among the best educated. I doubt there's a direct correlation between taxes and education but...yeah Thanks .. if there was an overlay with the educations and healthcare quality...but oh yeah .. there's no way to accurately measure it ... Quality education in the public system is a sham ... and nowhere in the country is healthcare free ... Its the private colleges that charge very high tuitions rates that have the best teachers and best graduating class... The propaganda stream that TV news spits out clouds the real problems imo like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 12 minutes ago, Jill said: I don't have to, because you were the one that said "Other states have better education and healthcare yet their tax rates are lower....". The burden of proof is on you, not me. I can't 'prove my position any more than you can .. and you do have the same 'burden' of proof to verify your stance... this is a moot argument. like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 172,489 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, Economy said: It's crazy how much I agree with all this and agree so much with the left leaning in principal yet still get annoyed at how incomplete or unrealistic some of thoughts on the left are especially with oversimplifying certain things Not talking about u on the second part tho I mean in general Same, sometimes I've resigned myself to the center-left label 'cause I generally agree with Democrats over true leftists but honestly, I'll take anything functional over the general bullsh*t the US is currently dealing with Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill 31,812 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Woolfsmck said: I can't 'prove my position any more than you can .. and you do have the same 'burden' of proof to verify your stance... this is a moot argument. @PartySick above posted some fine maps you can check out. But you were the one who said it first, why would you say something you cannot prove? The one who makes a claim is the one who must prove it, otherwise debates turn into "well, prove it" over and over. Former First Lady of the United States. Now card-carrying member of the Communist Party of China (CPC). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, PartySick said: That was kinda my point. I don't blame conservatives as much as I blame uneducated Republican voters and their twisted politicians. Sure, some Democrats are crappy too but nowhere near as bad If Republican voters would just pay attention and vote for real conservatives instead of the garbage they currently send to state governments and the federal government then there wouldn't be an issue. We've have politicians that disagreed but were able to find a functional common ground at least. We went on a tangent If there wasn't such a cut throat 'get your side elected' mentality ... Both sides could sit down and analyze the best way to run the country .. Hopefully Bidens team can make a dent here. like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Jill said: @PartySick above posted some fine maps you can check out. But you were the one who said it first, why would you say something you cannot prove? The one who makes a claim is the one who must prove it, otherwise debates turn into "well, prove it" over and over. give it up ... no one can 'prove' every thing they post ... and simply because I stated my position first doesn't mean my statement 'need' proof ... be serious like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jill 31,812 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Just now, Woolfsmck said: give it up ... What? Former First Lady of the United States. Now card-carrying member of the Communist Party of China (CPC). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 172,489 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 5 minutes ago, Woolfsmck said: Thanks .. if there was an overlay with the educations and healthcare quality...but oh yeah .. there's no way to accurately measure it ... Found this Minnesota is #1 in healthcare, #11 in high taxes, and #18 in education quality. Alaska is #51 in healthcare (D.C. is included), #49 in high taxes, and #26 in education. The problem is these are different sources, likely different periods of time, so the evidence is anecdotal but it's there Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 3 minutes ago, PartySick said: Found this Minnesota is #1 in healthcare, #11 in high taxes, and #18 in education quality. Alaska is #51 in healthcare (D.C. is included), #49 in high taxes, and #26 in education. The problem is these are different sources, likely different periods of time, so the evidence is anecdotal but it's there Fair enough ... Evidence to support your position .. but thin, agreed .. All these statistical factors are only good for macro economic decisions , which doesn't seem to fit into the rational we hear from the media... Also, California and NY appear to be middling in those catigories, yet on the top of the tax rate curve... So you could derive any conclusion based on these stats. like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 172,489 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 2 minutes ago, Woolfsmck said: Fair enough ... Evidence to support your position .. but thin, agreed .. All these statistical factors are only good for macro economic decisions , which doesn't seem to fit into the rational we hear from the media... I don't generally hear left leaning media sources talking about taxes and when right leaning sources talk it about, they lie. Let's zoom out and see the real root of the issue, even the media one: the American electorate is full of impressionable, gullible morons Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 52,844 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 Just now, PartySick said: Same, sometimes I've resigned myself to the center-left label 'cause I generally agree with Democrats over true leftists but honestly, I'll take anything functional over the general bullsh*t the US is currently dealing with For me I think the left has the general right idea that the system unfairly favour rich, that they aren't paying their fair share and that we need more fair redistribution and that it's not necessary for the average person to struggle as much as they do if the economic pie was more fairly divided What I don't like about the left tho is often they tend to oversimplify a lot of things without understanding it properly. To give just one example they talk about wealth from billionaires in stock market like if it can all be redistributed. It cannot, the cash for it all doesn't even exist. A typical stock trades for 15X to 17X actual earnings which means the wealth in value of these assets is not actually backed up by an equivalent amount of income or purchasing power. It ends up being an illusion to a large extent. U could never actually liquidate however many trillions all the billionaires own in assets and think u can use the equivalent of dollars purchasing power to pay for whatever programs u think u can So sometimes the left does not understand some basic facts and technicalities of how things work and they start to over simplify or exagerate some proposals I also think some want to hate on the rich so badly that they automatically dismiss some arguments too quickly on why some regulations or tax types or whatever it may be might have too many downsides or unintended consequences. Not all arguments against a left idea is because ur trying to lick a corporates boots. There can legitimately be valid reasons to think certain proposals may not work and is worth debating without automatically just brushing it off So in short I agree with the left on more things than I agree with on the right but I also think most on the left have an incomplete understanding of economy tbh and tend to oversimplify some stuff. They are very good at understanding the human and emotional aspect of economics but they tend to suck at understanding the technical part of economics (which is also a key factor) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted January 15, 2021 Author Share Posted January 15, 2021 Just now, PartySick said: I don't generally hear left leaning media sources talking about taxes and when right leaning sources talk it about, they lie. Let's zoom out and see the real root of the issue, even the media one: the American electorate is full of impressionable, gullible morons I've seen a lot of very 'sheeple' like people in my day .. Currently the 'Trump Supporters' have me the most mistyfied ... I mean can't the see reality here/>??? like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 172,489 Posted January 15, 2021 Share Posted January 15, 2021 1 minute ago, Woolfsmck said: I've seen a lot of very 'sheeple' like people in my day .. Currently the 'Trump Supporters' have me the most mistyfied ... I mean can't the see reality here/>??? The only comfort I can offer is that the group that voted for him only comprises ~21% of the US population and only ~40% of them actually believe his bullsh*t. Or at least, that's what they tell the poll takers. The rest are just Republican loyalists. Whimsical bitch Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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