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Two beheaded in Nice, France mass stabbing suspected terror attack

MJHolland
3 minutes ago, Admin said:

I live in Moscow, and I interact with Muslim people from Chechnya and other Islamic regions of Russia every day.

My opinion on Chechnya is just as valid as your opinion on... Wisconsin.

 

I don't have to live in Saudi Arabia to know that Muslim people are just as "good" as everybody else.

If you don't believe that, I am sorry but I don't know what else to call that other than Islamophobia. 

I want to be civil with you, but if you're telling me most Muslim people support terrorism idk what else I can say to you. 

Edited by MJHolland
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lego
4 minutes ago, Admin said:

Lmao imagine trying to educate a Russian on Russia. I’m not reading all that :laughga:

 

I’m saying for the other people who are reading your nonsense. We are neighbors. ;)

Again, you don’t live in mountains of Chechnya, you don’t live among those people so you don’t really know. And of course you don’t read. lol great argument. 

racist ppl really be like “so just because I’m a racist that makes me racist ??? wow”

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MJHolland

Muslim people are good people. 

It's problematic that ^ this sentence is controversial. 

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Admin
1 minute ago, MJHolland said:

I don't have to live in Saudi Arabia to know that Muslim people are just as "good" as everybody else.

If you don't believe that, I am sorry but I don't know what else to call that other than Islamophobia. 

I want to be civil with you, but if you're telling me most Muslim people support terrorism idk what else I can say to you. 

This isn’t about who is or isn’t “good”, this is is about the issues with Islam and Islamic leaders/governments that you refuse to recognize and label “islamophobic” instead.

I have explained to you that when a man from Chechnya murdered a teacher in France, both the head and the religious leader condemned France, not the murderer, while I the general reaction from the Muslim people in Chechnya has ranged from stating that the French teacher deserved it to blatantly calling the murderer a hero.

If anything, I’m defending not only people like you and me, but also your American Muslim friends as well, because most people in regions like Chechnya would hate them.

 

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MJHolland
1 minute ago, Admin said:

This isn’t about who is or isn’t “good”, this is is about the issues with Islam and Islamic leaders/governments that you refuse to recognize and label “islamophobic” instead.

I have explained to you that when a man from Chechnya murdered a teacher in France, both the head and the religious leader condemned France, not the murderer, while I the general reaction from the Muslim people in Chechnya has ranged from stating that the French teacher deserved it to blatantly calling the murderer a hero.

If anything, I’m defending not only people like you and me, but also your American Muslim friends as well, because most people in regions like Chechnya would hate them.

 

Sorry. I just don't believe the majority of Muslim people support terrorism. 

I said several times in previous posts that the root of this extremist behavior is authoritarian governments, leaders, and rogue organizations. It is NOT with Islam. It has nothing to do with Islam. 

Bad-faither leaders can inspire violence in all groups of people. We saw it just the other week when Trump encouraged a group of white men to plot to kidnap and kill two US governors (including mine). 

We can and should criticize those people fiercely. 

Please keep in mind the those with the most extreme voices are the loudest. 

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Admin
9 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

Muslim people are good people. 

It's problematic that ^ this sentence is controversial. 

It’s not controversial, it’s just irrelevant. It’s also a weird thing to say, and ironic coming from you considering you asked not to generalize Muslim people. Muslim people are people.

Speaking of generalizing, as an American, you probably wouldn’t get offended if I said that literally half of your country is dumb af for supporting Donald Trump? Would you say I’m being US-phobic? If not, why is it so hard to not do the same when I (and more importantly, posters who live in Islamic countries) explain the problems with Islam? 

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Admin
5 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

We saw it just the other week when Trump encouraged a group of white men to plot to kidnap and kill two US governors (including mine). 

Yet half of America supports Trump, and that doesn’t surprise you? 

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MJHolland
7 minutes ago, Admin said:

It’s not controversial, it’s just irrelevant. It’s also a weird thing to say, and ironic coming from you considering you asked not to generalize Muslim people. Muslim people are people.

Speaking of generalizing, as an American, you probably wouldn’t get offended if I said that literally half of your country is dumb af for supporting Donald Trump? Would you say I’m being US-phobic? If not, why is it so hard to not do the same when I (and more importantly, posters who live in Islamic countries) explain the problems with Islam? 

Haha, ok. Goodbye!

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Jill
7 hours ago, lego said:

I am someone who was Christian half of her life and the other half- Muslim, by my own choice. My own country committed genocide against Muslims in the 90s and I was actually alive in that period. I remember how it started, I know what dehumanization and generalization does.  I lived through bombardment from NATO. I lived through being attacked for being Muslim in a Western country. I do know what I’m talking about, I’m not your random sjw (your favorite word) so please spare me. You have your experiences and I have mine. @KanyeWest  

 

Let these people ignore thousands of years of context and put all the blame on an specific group of people. You won't convince them and in the process you'll just end up feeling more hopeless. There's no use in arguing with a person that uses the word SJW unironically as well. You know just by that that they're acting in bad faith. And don't you quote me Trump-loving rapper cause I don't have the energy.

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PartySick
1 hour ago, Admin said:

I have explained to you that when a man from Chechnya murdered a teacher in France, both the head and the religious leader condemned France, not the murderer, while I the general reaction from the Muslim people in Chechnya has ranged from stating that the French teacher deserved it to blatantly calling the murderer a hero.

I haven't read this entire conversation so I might be taking this out of context but I wanted to chime in on this bit anyway. Isn't this more of a Chechnya/regional problem than an Islam problem?

1.8 billion Muslim people are just people. Some of them live in (and are indoctrinated by) extremist countries. Most of them don't/aren't.

Personally, I have a difficult time connecting Islam to violence just like I can't personally connect Judaism to greed or Christianity to alt-right beliefs. It just doesn't make sense to be talking about religious beliefs when those are rarely anything other than excuses or tools for indoctrinating people.

I'd like the conversation to turn away from "Islam is a problem" to "the powerful and influential figures in certain countries and societies are a problem and they've created a culture where heinous acts can be tolerated or even celebrated. Acts like a mass stabbing, plotting to kidnap and kill governors, or bombing an abortion clinic".

✨The constellation of Orion, so bright at night✨

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PartySick
11 hours ago, lego said:

I have to disagree, I’ve met so many unbelievably generous and good people and religion was one of the main factors, it’s in their daily life and actions.

Lots of Christians are like this where I live too but I think those people are just good people who would be doing going regardless of their religious beliefs. It's more about their upbringing and natural disposition imo.

I think religion gets too much credit and too much blame for what happens in the world. Good people do good things, bad people do bad things. Sometimes it's simply average people who've been misled who do bad things. Religion is just a tool to rationalize or excuse certain people's actions. For better or worse.

That's not really something worth debating though, just a thought :laughga: thanks for sharing your faith, btw :kara:

✨The constellation of Orion, so bright at night✨
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palma

This thread has became a rollercoaster... Let me give my 2 cents (this time in a short form, promise!).

Criticizing a religion for its beliefs, teachings etc is completely normal. You also absolutely have the right to make fun of religion, any religion: for it’s actually a choice, unlike your ethnicity, body etc. Associating a terrorist act to all believers is racism, however I do not think that is what many people here tried to say. I, as a person surrounded by Muslim people hear repeatedly that such acts make people question their faith. And to combat that, only thing Muslim leaders need to do is to present a solid, unified front against religious terrorism. Yet all they do is to demonize the West to secure the next elections. It’s disappointing and people have the right to state that.

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Defmix100
9 hours ago, MJHolland said:

@ me next time king. And FYI, I do live amongst the 1.8 billion Muslims. We all do. they're our friends, neighbors, and colleagues, and we all know that these kinds of attacks do not represent them. just because someone lives in a Muslim majority country doesn't give them the right to generalize all Muslim people.  

also, turns out the attack was conducted in the name of white supremacy. 

don't we care that the #1 trending topic on the site is grossly misleading? 

 

Was it, is the OP incorrect or misleading? I do agree though that you can't generalize almost 2 billion people.

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Guest

Muslims where I live are saying if France allows drawing of our prophet in the name of free speech, why is denying the holocost illegal in France? Why is the Holocost a red line, but Muslim prophets are not?

My personal opinion is mocking Islam should be allowed, and is already allowed in almost all western countries. But no president or government would create an official event to mock Islam like Macron did. He should have let the the law deal with it and release a statement against radical ideas. This is what almost all countries would do and no backlash would happen.

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