Two beheaded in Nice, France mass stabbing suspected terror attack

[Florian 20,017]

2 hours ago, lego said:

 

Wait, Muslims living in Western countries and Muslims living in muslim-majority countries are not the same in what way? elaborate. 

There is a difference between the "western islam" that is more spirituality based and the one in the East that is intimately linked to politics.

[lego 44,165]

Should this have own thread?

 

 

 

 

 

[Delulu Rogers 7,662]

2 hours ago, GregJA said:

Many years ago someone beheaded someone here on a bus.

‘most disturbing scary thing, and to think anyone even thinks of this is sick.

Omg I remember this. I was so young and scared

[lego 44,165]

1 minute ago, Florian said:

There is a difference between the "western islam" that is more spirituality based and the one in the East that is intimately linked to politics.

 

Not sure I agree, because you can find western radicalized muslims who are very much obsessed with politics and you can find more spiritual ones in muslim world too, who are all about prayers and learning.. But radicals are minority and many attacks are thwarted because of friends or family reporting; so if they notice it’s not like they all turn blind eye.

but also it’s impossible not to follow politics “religiously” if you’re from that region because of all the wars and etc. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Bonkers said:

I find that you are a very rationally minded and informed on this issue.  Would you be willing to tell me if any of these 3 beliefs I have about Muslims are incorrect?

1.  Muslims may NOT kill anybody for any reason other than perhaps self defense or military service.

2.  Muslims MAY form and elect governments that CAN employ the justice described in the Quran including the death penalty for moral crimes.  So you can't kill people yourself, but you CAN have your government do it.

3.  The majority of the Muslim world favors strict punishment for blasphemy & apostasy including the death penalty. (there were some famous polls from Pew Research that I got this belief from, but at least 10 years ago.)
 

1) Yes thats true, but im a practicing Muslim so I could be a biased source? I would still say that the Muslim world does have a radicalization problem even if the radicals are a small minority. While I believe the west and world governments play a big part in this radicalization, we also play a part in radicalizing our people.

2) That is true but terrorists consider their terrorist group their own form of government. And they consider other Muslim countries fake Muslims who are slaves to the west. They see themselves as the only legitimate Ilsamic "government" that exists today.

3) I did see these polls many times but im not sure about its accuracy and how were the questions asked. We have a problem regardless of weather this specific poll is accurate or not. Reforms must be made and I think thats finally happening since last year.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Admin said:

Right? Imagine living in the US and telling someone in Turkey (and Lebanon) that they're "islamophobic"

 

3 hours ago, Admin said:

I was commenting on the absurdity of someone living in the United States telling someone living in Turkey that their views on Islam are invalid.

Sounds very "men having an opinion on abortion" to me.

Are you saying Americans cant call out islamophpbia in other countries? People who live in Turkey or Lebanon can be islamophobic, and Americans should call it out if it happens.

[Florian 20,017]

Just now, lego said:

 

Not sure I agree, because you can find western radicalized muslims who are very much obsessed with politics and you can find more spiritual ones in muslim world too, who are all about prayers and learning.. But radicals are minority and many attacks are thwarted because of friends or family reporting; so if they notice it’s not like they all turn blind eye.

but also it’s impossible not to follow politics “religiously” if you’re from that region because of all the wars and etc. 

Yes that I agree with you on that point but I do think most of the radicalized western muslims are usually getting their influences from eastern ideologies. And I didn't want to mean muslims cannot be interessed in politics, I was refering to those who do not separate the political interests and the religious ones. 

[littlepotter 76,610]

27 minutes ago, lego said:

maybe you don’t realize but some of your words are weaponized against me, some don’t even consider me a real muslim, as you can see, because of the region of the world we live in. 

I sympathize with both of you, but if you write on international forums  things like “once they become majority it’s hell for everyone” and “1,8 billion has heads in sand ignoring this issue”, you’re giving western racists and xenophobes validation; they talk about getting rid of the “cancerous muslim problem” the same way they used to talk about Jews.

They’re afraid they’d be outnumbered and lose their freedoms in West (this is irrational and won’t happen) and they believe most of us silently support these killings and they would use statements like pennywise made earlier, to justify their hate. So some of it does harm me. If you as a minority in muslim country put blame on the all of us, for the violence, it harms me and my family, my kids. 

I completely understand what you are saying and you are right in that people are going to use these things to harm the muslim minorities in western countries, to antagonize them and mistreat them as scapegoats to their anger and hate. This is like what happened with asian people being discriminated against after coronavirus. Sadly this is the reality of our world, some people will selectively choose facts to advance their own hate agenda. But i do think your anger with me is misplaced. It's not my fault that some people will choose to take my words out of context and twist them against you, when i have made it EXTREMELY CLEAR that i conpletely support and sympathize with you and stand against islamophobia and the irrational fear of arabs. I can't be held accountable for how some hateful people will interpret my honest and truthful personal experience. I never did and would never write something like “once they become majority it’s hell for everyone” and “1,8 billion has heads in sand ignoring this issue". I am opposed to institutionalized religion in all forms.

Just a side note, i hope you realize that most muslims here wouldn't consider you a "real muslim" either. You would not have their sympathy at all. They hate western muslims, they hate anything western, they even hate each other between their different sects. Christians do the same to a lesser extent. You do not want to associate yourself with the people i am talking/complaining about.

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

Religion is so disgusting...when will we evolve out of this primitive construct? 

[littlepotter 76,610]

11 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

Are you saying Americans cant call out islamophpbia in other countries? People who live in Turkey or Lebanon can be islamophobic, and Americans should call it out if it happens.

No actually, that's kinda my whole point

4 hours ago, littlepotter said:

I'm getting very tired of westerners telling those of us who live in muslim majority countries that our disagreement with the mentality they impose on everyone is "islamophobic". Stay in your lanes please, that's all i'm saying on this topic.

1 hour ago, littlepotter said:

If you think anyone is invalidating islamophobia, or at least me, that is not the case. It's people like you who suffer from islamophobia. You are muslim in a western country. You are a minority and you are discriminated against because you are muslim. That is islamophobia. It is also not strictly about religion but also about ethnicity - the dicrimination extends to atheist arabs or any other belief. My uncle's name is literally Jihad, but he is and his family is christian - nothing to do with islam, just an arabic name, but he would be profiled as a terrorist. Islamophobia/arabophobia is also the western belief that we are barbaric, ignorant, uneducated, etc. And it harms us because they can just send bombs our way and have their wars in our lands without them feeling bad about us dying because in they dehumanized us so our pain is not real to them.

However.

When a non religious person like me or @Pennywise complains that the enforcement of religion on our society has led to our own oppression under it, that is not islamophobic. I do not get to be islamophobic, i am not western, i cannot harm islam or muslims in any way because they are the majority and their religion is fundamentally opposed to my very existence as a gay person. I had several girl friends in beirut who personally discussed with me how afraid they were to remove their hijab because of how they will be treated by the men around them, the two who ended up doing it were bullied and shamed by everyone they knew (mind you, we are students of an AMERICAN university, one of the most liberal spaces here, so if this happened here you can imagine how much worse it is in the more conservative places) and another one was literally threatened by her father and never got to take off her hijab. We cannot be islamophobic. We are not in any position to harm islam and muslims. Does this make it clearer?

I absolutely symapthize with what you are going through, because you ARE a victim of islamophobia, you are a minority being opressed. But my initial statement still stands: if you've never lived here, you do not get to police how we feel about muslim/religious mentality in muslim majority counteies. 

 

[TimisaMonster 31,073]

11 hours ago, Lemonky said:

I fear 2020 won't end well.

The election is less than a week away...have you gotten your pitchfork yet? 

[GregJA 5,530]

28 minutes ago, Delulu Rogers said:

Omg I remember this. I was so young and scared

Are we from the same place 

I can’t remember how long ago it was (I don’t wanna look it up) but I was really young too and I just remember them showing things on the news 

[Guest]

Mocking Islam is allowed in almost all western countries. But no president or government would create an official event to mock Islam. He should have let the the law deal with it and release a statement against radical ideas. This is what almost all countries would do and no backlash would happen.

[lego 44,165]

15 minutes ago, littlepotter said:

I completely understand what you are saying and you are right in that people are going to use these things to harm the muslim minorities in western countries, to antagonize them and mistreat them as scapegoats to their anger and hate. This is like what happened with asian people being discriminated against after coronavirus. Sadly this is the reality of our world, some people will selectively choose facts to advance their own hate agenda. But i do think your anger with me is misplaced. It's not my fault that some people will choose to take my words out of context and twist them against you, when i have made it EXTREMELY CLEAR that i conpletely support and sympathize with you and stand against islamophobia and the irrational fear of arabs. I can't be held accountable for how some hateful people will interpret my honest and truthful personal experience. I never did and would never write something like “once they become majority it’s hell for everyone” and “1,8 billion has heads in sand ignoring this issue". I am opposed to institutionalized religion in all forms.

Just a side note, i hope you realize that most muslims here wouldn't consider you a "real muslim" either. You would not have their sympathy at all. They hate western muslims, they hate anything western, they even hate each other between their different sects. Christians do the same to a lesser extent. You do not want to associate yourself with the people i am talking/complaining about.

 

 

I’m not actually angry with you, it was pennyw who wrote something similar to those sentences in first pages and that’s what MJ found problematic and honestly me too. It was that part, not their whole experience. I do know about the type you’re talking about. I honestly don’t care if they like me or not. I’m just concerned about everyone’s safety rn. I feel bad for victims families. 

[MJHolland 12,725]

5 hours ago, littlepotter said:

I'm getting very tired of westerners telling those of us who live in muslim majority countries that our disagreement with the mentality they impose on everyone is "islamophobic". Stay in your lanes please, that's all i'm saying on this topic.

1. Again, your argument that you're not Islamophobic because Muslim people are actually awful is so...

2. Well that bold part was a lie 

3. It turns out hank made yet another anti-Islam flamebait thread and failed to update the OP with the news that this isn't looking like it was religiously motivated. Why are we still talking about this?