Nino 12 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, lego said: That part of my post wasn’t for you, you’re not the one trolling with Gaga wrapped in American flag in this thread saying people should not even be here if they criticize anything American. It's not trolling. I said that if somebody wants to lie about the extent of America's shortcomings to the point that it looks like propaganda, the LADY GAGA website probably isn't a great place for you. She's not exactly anti-american. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino 12 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 As somebody who believes in the democratic process and America's ability to slowly progress generation after generation, it's disheartening to see people enjoying everything my country brings to the world while simultaneously treating our least-terrible leaders as cartoon villains. America isn't the boogeyman in your closet, the lack of human rights is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJHolland 12,723 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 For the record, I do NOT support: hawkish foreign policy, the use of force on civilians, or endless wars. I don't appreciate being attacked, and I think my friends on the far left would be better suited if they didn't call everyone who disagrees with them a murderous scumbag. When you look at actual war criminals, I think it's preposterous to put Obama in the same category. Period. That's just absurd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lego 44,165 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Nino said: It's not trolling. I said that if somebody wants to lie about the extent of America's shortcomings to the point that it looks like propaganda, the LADY GAGA website probably isn't a great place for you. She's not exactly anti-american. sorry all I can see is you doing this every morning FreePalestine Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJHolland 12,723 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Nino said: It's not trolling. I said that if somebody wants to lie about the extent of America's shortcomings to the point that it looks like propaganda, the LADY GAGA website probably isn't a great place for you. She's not exactly anti-american. Also, I just want to state for the record that I don't align with the spirit of this message. America deserves to be scrutinized harshly and criticized when appropriate, including (and especially) foreign policy. I think all opinions have a place here on Gaga Daily, and I do not think that users in this thread are spreading propaganda by being critical of the US. They're very opinionated obviously, but "propaganda" is too cute by half. Lastly, nationalism is a disease. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 148,791 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Nino said: log off the american pop star's fan site We're the only ones that get to say that Criticizing the Obama admin's use of the military which resulted in numerous civilian deaths is not anti-American propaganda I stan Obama domestically for several reasons but we have the freedom to criticize our previous president's actions in the Middle East, and grieve the loss of human life there, without being "anti-American". It's 100% in the American spirit to know we should and can do better than that. I'm just like 🧍♂️ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Temptation 11,209 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Obama created ISIS. He is a war criminal. His own city of Chicago is still the deadliest city in America. He lectures people on climate change and rising sea levels but buys multimillion dollar mansions along seacoasts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorusRa2 4,978 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, MJHolland said: I mostly agree with everything here, but he did use diplomacy a hell of a lot. Yes, I too was disappointed that he turned out to be such a hawk. Does that make him a war criminal? No. I don't believe he ever tried to intentionally kill or hurt civilians. He also did a lot of incredible things, including ensuring millions of Americans can see a doctor. The first bill he signed into law protected women in the workplace and mandated equal pay for equal work. Don't ask don't tell was repealed. Etc. I find your worldview very narrow. We made a lot of progress in the right direction under Obama. I still think that Obama is a war criminal. To the extent that Obama did good things, there were some good things but there were just as many failures as well. The 2008 financial crisis was mishandled. They gave all kinds of bailouts to the corporations who then bought back their stock, inflating the stock market and made their stockholders richer in the process while regular americans lost their homes and went bankrupt. He compromised instantly on healthcare and gave us the republican healthcare plan in the individual mandate when he had the majority he needed to get passed a public option (which was what he ran on). He made light of the water crisis in Flint that still exists today. He of course had the many foreign policy mistakes we already discussed. He also used the police in the same way Trump has at standing rock. I don't find your worldview to be narrow but I do feel like you are much more willing to rationalize and forgive mistakes for any positive thing. I am much more focused on what was not done well than what was done well. I think your frustration has to do with the fact that I do demand ideological purity on a core set of issues. I am not part of public policy or in government but I assure you that I am capable of compromise but there are some issues that you just don't compromise on. For me that is war, healthcare, education, election integrity, housing, climate and corruption. I.E. If I said I wanted to cut the military budget by 40% and you said that it was preposterous and that it needed to be cut by no more than 10%. Would I compromise to get that 10% cut? Damn right I would while also saying that it's not enough but when you have a deal, you have a deal. I will always argue for what I see is the ideal stance in discussion because it's what I believe in and regardless of whether or not I can impact public policy I will advocate for what I think is right. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartySick 148,791 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 minute ago, Lord Temptation said: Obama created ISIS ISIS was "founded" in the 90s and rose to power in 2005 though IIrc it was after Bush had gutted Afghanistan...or something to that effect. Idk, the last 20 years have been an eternity I'm just like 🧍♂️ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino 12 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Just now, MJHolland said: Also, I just want to state for the record that I don't align with the spirit of this message. America deserves to be scrutinized harshly and criticized when appropriate, including (and especially) foreign policy. I think all opinions have a place here on Gaga Daily, and I do not think that users in this thread are spreading propaganda by being critical of the US. They're very opinionated obviously, but "propaganda" is too cute by half. Lastly, nationalism is a disease. Willingly spreading misleading or wholly untrue information in an attempt to further a political agenda is the actual definition of propaganda. Fair criticism is not the same as inventing millions of deaths to paint one of the least war-criminaly presidents in the last 30 years as a villain. A criticism of Obama's administration would be that he was going to withdraw troops permanently to later send them right back, or that he trounced on the rights of Americans at every chance he got, which are both real things that happened. The millions of imaginary dead civilians are propaganda. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJHolland 12,723 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, Lord Temptation said: Obama created ISIS. He is a war criminal. His own city of Chicago is still the deadliest city in America. He lectures people on climate change and rising sea levels but buys multimillion dollar mansions along seacoasts. Do we still give warning points for flame bait because damn sis wtf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitleysingur 13,735 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 Should be renamed to Americans and Their Fantasy Dreams of you and me are in the dirt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derpmonster 22,412 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Nino said: Every single report on the drone strikes estimates civilian casualties as less than 1/10 of people effected. Compared to other military tactics that makes it relatively extremely safe and targeted and effective. You read the stats wrong ma'am. Over 90% of those killed were civilians or mistreated. 1 hour ago, Nino said: If you want to spread anti-american propaganda log off the american pop star's fan site and stop using any currency backed by the US Dollar please. Me: we should improve society somewhat. you: yet you participate in society. Hypocrite! I am very intelligent. Check out iTunes data & graphs at CHARTPOP.live Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino 12 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, PartySick said: We're the only ones that get to say that Criticizing the Obama admin's use of the military which resulted in numerous civilian deaths is not anti-American propaganda I stan Obama domestically for several reasons but we have the freedom to criticize our previous president's actions in the Middle East, and grieve the loss of human life there, without being "anti-American". It's 100% in the American spirit to know we should and can do better than that. Grossly inflating numbers to make somebody who was by comparison safe into the biggest monster in the history of the world is a politically motivated lie, which is propaganda. I said on a previous page that I don't agree with civilian deaths, dont know where people are getting the idea that I agree with or am okay with that I just absolutely detest the idea that Obama did poorly in that area when all of the hard data says the exact opposite. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
derpmonster 22,412 Posted September 21, 2020 Share Posted September 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, MJHolland said: Do we still give warning points for flame bait because damn sis wtf Are uncomfortable truths flamebait now? And last I checked, discussing moderation with passive aggressive comments was WP worthy. Check out iTunes data & graphs at CHARTPOP.live Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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