Barack Obama - A Promised Land

[Nino 12]

6 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

Obama and HRC are the reason why Libya has a slave market now. Obama literally ran out of bombs to use. He did ten times as many drone strikes as Bush. He invaded more countries than Bush did. That is a war criminal make. 

There was a massive surge in terrorist activity during Obama's administration, a massive surge in military action is only natural. Again I have no problem admitting that I don't think America has to leave hostile people alone. That's not the way any of the world powers behave.

[MJHolland 12,723]

4 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

This is a flat out lie.

We killed people with drones, we starved people with sanctions, we killed countless people in proxy wars that we waged in seven different countries, five of which were new conflicts that Obama got us involved in. He launched airstrikes or military raids in at least seven countries, including Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan. When you account for all of this, hundreds of thousands of people (or more) died, while countless more were seriously injured or had their livelihoods stolen from them.

He killed an American citizen extrajudicially, and then had the government justify it. He set countless atrocious legal precedents that are being taken advantage of right now to decimate people abroad. The guy was not some sort of progressive on foreign policy. He helped destroy vast portions of multiple countries and killed or displaced countless innocents.

Didn't you said Obama killed millions of innocent civilians in your first post in this thread? 

I'd like to actually get an accurate count instead of going back and forth with you without any sources being tagged. 

Regardless, you are absolutely right in saying he was not a progressive on foreign policy. And you are obviously entitled to your worldview/opinion on that. 

He did a lot of good things too, though. But I think it would be a waste of my time to lay them out for you as you are clearly very opinionated about that, so feel free to stop replying to my comments at anytime. 

[lego 44,165]

Drones are worst, because it feels like a game you’re playing. It’s impersonal. Targets are too far away, they can’t hurt you, but you also don’t know difference between a child and a dog and a terrorist. You also dehumanize them enough so you don’t even care. So many innocent people were killed because of that. 

 

Just watch Black Mirror episode Men Against Fire, you should get how American army is being brainwashed. We have examples here too. 

[MJHolland 12,723]

7 minutes ago, littlepotter said:

Girl are you insinuating that any of us are defending terrorists? This was never a question to begin with. And trust me terror affects our region a lot more than it affects yours. But so many of y'all fail to realize that terrorism is a direct result of America shoving its **** down our throats.

I'm absolutely not accusing you of that?!

I'm just saying the blame for civilian casualties doesn't lie solely on Obama. Terrorist encourage and try to increase civilian casualties because they can turn it into a recruitment tactic. 

I'm absolutely certain that Obama tried to at least limit civilian casualties while his opponent (al Qaeda) tried to increase them. 

[MJHolland 12,723]

6 minutes ago, ShtoopidLahv said:

When the conversation boils down to morally equivocating Obama’s actions with Al Qaeda’s, it says a LOT about just how evil obama was 

ok

[MJHolland 12,723]

7 minutes ago, Nino said:

No, it's a "moral dilemma" because the pseudo-intellectuals masturbate to being "unbiased" and want to justify terrorism.

Are you serious? 

[Nino 12]

Just now, HorusRa2 said:

Protecting American interest is the PG way of saying imperialism. Just say it for what it is. 

And again, when you have crushing economic sanctions, people who are starving through proxy wars, bombs falling down on your country for years, I don't see how you wouldn't expect some form of retaliation. The fact is that the American presence in the region adds to and  intensifies the instability of the region. Why is it that nothing has changed over the course of 20/30 years? Because the American Military is still there. Fact of the matter is that brunch democrats and liberals can go to the movies or watch netflix and fantasize about the US being the moral heroes of the world but we are the monsters. We are the evil. And fact is until we leave these people alone and in peace we will always have to spend money on war and forgo helping our own people. And this country will become a failed social experiment because the wealthy did not care because they have all the wealth and power in the world. 

What is this fanfiction 

We're talking about a region that has used every opportunity it's had in human history to wage war on the west. They were beaten once and for all and put in a state where they can't rebuild for the interest of the rest of us. Every time they take moves to upset the state they were put in by ALL world powers, America does the dirty work of cleaning it up because we have the most to lose and also the biggest military. There's really no good or evil here. There's terrorism and ideological warfare vs maintaining the status quo through violent force. Neither is great, but I sure enjoy my gay rights and pop music and my whole family except me is Christian so I'm on team USA. Wealth inequality is an issue in times of peace here and it's certainly an issue in the middle east too. 

[Nino 12]

3 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

Are you serious? 

I mean i was basically quoting one of the users in this thread 

[HorusRa2 4,978]

2 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

I'm absolutely not accusing you of that?!

I'm just saying the blame for civilian casualties doesn't lie solely on Obama. Terrorist encourage and try to increase civilian casualties because they can turn it into a recruitment tactic. 

I'm absolutely certain that Obama tried to at least limit civilian casualties while his opponent (al Qaeda) tried to increase them. 

Tentatively my last comment but let's just put it as simply as possible. 

Obama campaigned on more diplomacy and getting troops out of the middle east. Instead, he increased troops through the first huge chunk of his presidency and left office with roughly the same number of troops in the middle east as there were when he got into office. He did not really use diplomacy unless you count Iran (except sanctions is still a form of war, so he still waged war the way I see it) and got us into more countries than we were in when he became president. What he campaigned as was not how he governed. That's the reality. You can try to rationalize it but that's the truth. 

[MJHolland 12,723]

15 minutes ago, lego said:

Karzai to Obama: Stop killing Afghan civilians; U.S. airstrike reportedly kills 37 at wedding party

 

The bombing of the remote village of Wech Baghtu in the southern province of Kandahar on Monday afternoon destroyed an Afghan housing complex where women and children had gathered to celebrate, villagers said.

Villager Abdul Jalil, a 37-year-old grape farmer whose niece was getting married, told an Associated Press reporter at the scene of the bombing that U.S. troops and Taliban fighters had been fighting about a half mile from his home.

The U.S. military said it was investigating, and a U.S. spokesman added that "if innocent people were killed in this operation, we apologize and express our condolences."

Jalil said American forces had given villagers permission to bury the dead, which he said included 23 children and 10 women.

 

 

just one example out of many. the terrorists didn’t use wedding as a shield.... 

 

the nationalist downplaying loss of these lives, should be ashamed of himself 

I remember when this happened. Absolutely horrific. 

I think you should be really ashamed of yourself for accusing me of downplaying the significance of this loss of life. That is absolutely not my intention. 

[HorusRa2 4,978]

2 minutes ago, Nino said:

What is this fanfiction 

We're talking about a region that has used every opportunity it's had in human history to wage war on the west. They were beaten once and for all and put in a state where they can't rebuild for the interest of the rest of us. Every time they take moves to upset the state they were put in by ALL world powers, America does the dirty work of cleaning it up because we have the most to lose and also the biggest military. There's really no good or evil here. There's terrorism and ideological warfare vs maintaining the status quo through violent force. Neither is great, but I sure enjoy my gay rights and pop music and my whole family except me is Christian so I'm on team USA. Wealth inequality is an issue in times of peace here and it's certainly an issue in the middle east too. 

So, you're a warmonger. You support imperialism. And you think that it is justified. Good to know. 

[lego 44,165]

Just now, MJHolland said:

I think you should be really ashamed of yourself for accusing me of downplaying the significance of this loss of life. That is absolutely not my intention. 

 

That part of my post wasn’t for you, you’re not the one trolling  with Gaga wrapped in American flag in this thread saying people should not even be here if they criticize anything American. 

[Sunny 12,725]

Some of y'all Americans are so brainwashed and braindead thinking that just because some users are pointing out facts that they're spreading propaganda against your poor little country

You're no better than Trump supporters, thinking that America is some divine force that can decide who needs to get bombed and not. Solve your problems first, the world doesn't need your "help".

A Promised Land:

 

(I know this was not during Obama's presidency)

[Nino 12]

1 minute ago, HorusRa2 said:

So, you're a warmonger. You support imperialism. And you think that it is justified. Good to know. 

When they solve wealth inequality and women also have economic, social, and political equity, they can be the shining beacon of good vs the filthy imperial capitalists but until that day I'm gonna stick to my guns here that both sides are messy and violent but my side has Lady Gaga and gay rights and generally doesn't commit war crimes or acts of terrorism on the same scale. 

[MJHolland 12,723]

1 minute ago, HorusRa2 said:

Tentatively my last comment but let's just put it as simply as possible. 

Obama campaigned on more diplomacy and getting troops out of the middle east. Instead, he increased troops through the first huge chunk of his presidency and left office with roughly the same number of troops in the middle east as there were when he got into office. He did not really use diplomacy unless you count Iran (except sanctions is still a form of war, so he still waged war the way I see it) and got us into more countries than we were in when he became president. What he campaigned as was not how he governed. That's the reality. You can try to rationalize it but that's the truth. 

I mostly agree with everything here, but he did use diplomacy a hell of a lot. Yes, I too was disappointed that he turned out to be such a hawk. 

Does that make him a war criminal? No. I don't believe he ever tried to intentionally kill or hurt civilians. 

He also did a lot of incredible things, including ensuring millions of Americans can see a doctor. The first bill he signed into law protected women in the workplace and mandated equal pay for equal work. Don't ask don't tell was repealed. Etc. 

I find your worldview very narrow. We made a lot of progress in the right direction under Obama.