Biden photographed w/ Kamala Harris notes

[REALITY 80,184]

Disappointed, but not surprised if this turns out to be true.

[REALITY 80,184]

46 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

I want to follow up with why this is a bad idea. You may argue that this will help shore up base support for Biden but she brings no additional help. In fact she may bring additional liability. 

The Trump administration is trying to say that Biden is a Trojan horse for the socialist Bernie movement. Well, Kamala Co sponsored medicare for all. The republicans will try to say that Kamala will be the "real" president and she will try to force medicare for all onto the American people. Additionally, Harris has a shifty record on racial justice as she jailed black men for pot crimes and forced people to serve longer sentences for slave labor. 

Biden may be up but a Harris VP will 100% bring more support to Trump than to Biden. 

I agree that Kamala does more bad than good if Biden were to put her on the ticket, and I agree with everything you said, except for the part about medicare for all. Republicans are going to try and hammer that point either way, no matter who Biden's VP pick is. Hell, because they're saying Biden's a "trojan horse" for progressives, they're already trying that tactic on Biden. 

[MelbHawker 6,583]

I cannot understand why people are cancelling Harris because she worked as an attorney for over.. 15 years before making her case? Sure she pulled strings during that time, and probably made some questionable decisions (this is the norm in America, no-one in the system is angelic/pure ).. but when you're a black woman working as an attorney in America in the 90's, you best have the balls to make those decisions and get on with it. Nobody seems to mention her work against drug/gang violence, sexual abuse etc. She was making a name for herself and was nobody powerful enough to make change back then (given her race / gender and the corrupt system she was a pawn in). Thankfully times have changed.

She pushes for what she believes in - it meant going against Obama when he was in Office once - sorry y'all, but she has balls and she's what America needs right now. She's clear (Biden mumbles and loses his train of thought regularly), concise and she's forward thinking. She's also a person of colour. She's also a she. I completely understand that these facts about her do not qualify her for the position at all, but America's morale is at an all time low right now given the failures and embarrassment that is Trump's administration (and don't even get me started on Pence the little bitch.. every speech/statement is literally 'thanks to President Trumps outstanding leadership'.. ). 'Superficial' things like gender and the fact she's African American would no doubt boost the countries morale tenfold, especially after the BLM movement/Trump's abominations. She's been in the system for decades too.. the clown in charge at the moment was hosting TV shows prior to buying his way into the presidency.

Each to their own. I've read a lot on Harris's accomplishments & her failures - but I think she's a great candidate and would pull votes to Team Biden.  

[djBuffoon 12,239]

1 hour ago, killerstiletto said:

At this point I don't care who his VP choice is. I just don't want 4 more years of the walking circus peanut. 

This. I’m on the brink of honestly not caring who it is. This country will be unrecognizable (in a bad way) with four more years on its present course. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

1 hour ago, MelbHawker said:

I cannot understand why people are cancelling Harris because she worked as an attorney for over.. 15 years before making her case? Sure she pulled strings during that time, and probably made some questionable decisions (this is the norm in America, no-one in the system is angelic/pure ).. but when you're a black woman working as an attorney in America in the 90's, you best have the balls to make those decisions and get on with it. Nobody seems to mention her work against drug/gang violence, sexual abuse etc. She was making a name for herself and was nobody powerful enough to make change back then (given her race / gender and the corrupt system she was a pawn in). Thankfully times have changed.

She pushes for what she believes in - it meant going against Obama when he was in Office once - sorry y'all, but she has balls and she's what America needs right now. She's clear (Biden mumbles and loses his train of thought regularly), concise and she's forward thinking. She's also a person of colour. She's also a she. I completely understand that these facts about her do not qualify her for the position at all, but America's morale is at an all time low right now given the failures and embarrassment that is Trump's administration (and don't even get me started on Pence the little bitch.. every speech/statement is literally 'thanks to President Trumps outstanding leadership'.. ). 'Superficial' things like gender and the fact she's African American would no doubt boost the countries morale tenfold, especially after the BLM movement/Trump's abominations. She's been in the system for decades too.. the clown in charge at the moment was hosting TV shows prior to buying his way into the presidency.

Each to their own. I've read a lot on Harris's accomplishments & her failures - but I think she's a great candidate and would pull votes to Team Biden.  

If this is what you believe then you just don't understand why people like me think she is an atrocious VP candidate. She literally co-sponsored medicare for all, fundraised as a progressive and then became one of the people on the debate stage tag teaming Bernie and Warren about how it was not the way forward. That is not the makings of someone you can trust to be in a position of power like the presidency. Full stop. 

Also, rationalizing the choices she made as, "well that's what america was like in the 90s," is just not good enough. In fact, the entire democratic party went, "tough on crime," and created the mass incarceration situation we have right now. Biden wrote the crime bill. Bernie voted for it (albeit, he said it would lead to mass incarceration and that he didn't like that "part" of the bill). Kamala participated in it. You got to stop rationalizing and shifting the blame of politicians you "like" and only placing blame on politicians you don't like (Trump). What is fair is fair and it is fair to say that Kamala's record as a whole is at the very least disconcerting considering we are in an environment where racial justice is the biggest issue on people's minds other than coronavirus and whether or not they will be able to pay the bills this month. 

[Squidward T 2,470]

Ugh she was a disaster in the debates. I hope this isn't true. 

[MACATL 2,133]

21 hours ago, vivre sa vie said:

Kamala is  even worse than him. Neoliberal af! He needs a VP who will attract votes from the Left! 

If defeating trump doesn’t drive out the left to vote, nothing will.  

[MelbHawker 6,583]

18 hours ago, HorusRa2 said:

If this is what you believe then you just don't understand why people like me think she is an atrocious VP candidate. She literally co-sponsored medicare for all, fundraised as a progressive and then became one of the people on the debate stage tag teaming Bernie and Warren about how it was not the way forward. That is not the makings of someone you can trust to be in a position of power like the presidency. Full stop. 

Also, rationalizing the choices she made as, "well that's what america was like in the 90s," is just not good enough. In fact, the entire democratic party went, "tough on crime," and created the mass incarceration situation we have right now. Biden wrote the crime bill. Bernie voted for it (albeit, he said it would lead to mass incarceration and that he didn't like that "part" of the bill). Kamala participated in it. You got to stop rationalizing and shifting the blame of politicians you "like" and only placing blame on politicians you don't like (Trump). What is fair is fair and it is fair to say that Kamala's record as a whole is at the very least disconcerting considering we are in an environment where racial justice is the biggest issue on people's minds other than coronavirus and whether or not they will be able to pay the bills this month. 

I can understand why you feel that way towards her, your points are valid. You're entitled to your opinion fair and square.

The way I see it, nobody in the American political game hasn't contradicted themselves in one way or another throughout their career. Politics isn't about sticking to what you believe in to get ahead unfortunately.. it's about strongly opposing your competition to create division amongst your audience to win them over. It's all about the votes in the US. 

Regarding rationalising and shifting the blame of politicians I 'like' onto those I don't 'like'.. I am unsure of how you came to that conclusion after reading my post. I went on a bit of a rant explaining why she betters Trump as a leader and as a communicator (my opinion of course) - that's about all there was to it..

Harris has been very vocal about racial justice over the last few months. What she did decades ago goes against it to some extent - her perspective seems to have changed though. She's in a far better position to bring about change right now than what she was when she was in previous roles. I think she'd do well as Biden's VP. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

17 minutes ago, MelbHawker said:

I can understand why you feel that way towards her, your points are valid. You're entitled to your opinion fair and square.

The way I see it, nobody in the American political game hasn't contradicted themselves in one way or another throughout their career. Politics isn't about sticking to what you believe in to get ahead unfortunately.. it's about strongly opposing your competition to create division amongst your audience to win them over. It's all about the votes in the US. 

Regarding rationalising and shifting the blame of politicians I 'like' onto those I don't 'like'.. I am unsure of how you came to that conclusion after reading my post. I went on a bit of a rant explaining why she betters Trump as a leader and as a communicator (my opinion of course) - that's about all there was to it..

Harris has been very vocal about racial justice over the last few months. What she did decades ago goes against it to some extent - her perspective seems to have changed though. She's in a far better position to bring about change right now than what she was when she was in previous roles. I think she'd do well as Biden's VP. 

You're definitely entitled to your own opinion. I do agree that there are few, if any, politicians that do not have votes that are seemingly contradictory to their stated values and beliefs. Part of that is how our government functions and how completely different bills are included in the same larger bill that gets sent to a vote. 

 

That said, what I mean to say is that you cannot (not saying you specifically have done this but using an example) be outraged by the Trump administration for locking up kids in cages when Harris also basically forced inmates to do slave labor. Both are equally horrendous acts that are inhumane. It's not okay to rationalize that Harri's actions are acceptable to glaze over without any criticism because, "that's what we did in the 90s" & yet be overly angry at the Trump administration for doing crimes against humanity. Well, that's also what the Obama/Biden administration did. So, does Trump get a pass for being even more awful than Obama/Biden? Definitely not in my book but that also means that Harris deserves that criticism and should be held accountable for that history. 

 

I'm not here to say that Harris hasn't changed her mind or that her advocacy isn't genuine; however, what is a very clear pattern for Harris is to hop across ideology because it's the more popular thing to do. I.E. when not running against Bernie in a primary, she was more than happy to tout the benefits of a single payer healthcare system but once she was trying to be the democratic nominee and Bernie was winning the progressive vote, all of a sudden she was a critic of medicare for all. Not to mention the fact that we know by SEC filings the kind of people who were donating to her campaign from from spaces that are ideologically opposed to medicare for all. Which would lead a logical person to believe that the money she received for her campaign impacted her ideology. Considering we already are aware of how lobbyists and other forces impact public policy, I think it's fair to say that Harris would govern and advocate for the interests that thicken her wallet (campaign or through non-political ventures). While that is certainly rational, it makes her corrupt. It also makes her very unlikely to represent the people who will likely vote for a Biden/Harris ticket who think that she's more progressive than she really is. She isn't in fact a progressive. What she is is an empty suit for sale to the highest donor. 

 

She will not make a great VP. She wasn't even going to win her home state of california in the primary, not even going to be in the top 3 if she had stayed in. She adds no additional electoral college benefit. She brings liability. When she WAS in the primary, beyond criticizing Biden (her would be running mate), the only thing she really discussed was how terrible Trump was and I'm sorry to tell you but that's not going to be what persuades a swing voter to vote for her and Biden. Everybody knows how bad Trump is and honestly Harris is more likely to create more divisiveness on the campaign trail that swing voters may find to be too abrasive considering how many people just want things to go back to normal. 

 

And the reality is that our opinions aren't likely to change in this conversation but I would just recommend that if Biden/Harris is a thing and they do win the presidency that you should pay attention to what she does & see if the things I've mentioned turn out to have any accuracy. 

[MelbHawker 6,583]

3 hours ago, HorusRa2 said:

You're definitely entitled to your own opinion. I do agree that there are few, if any, politicians that do not have votes that are seemingly contradictory to their stated values and beliefs. Part of that is how our government functions and how completely different bills are included in the same larger bill that gets sent to a vote. 

 

That said, what I mean to say is that you cannot (not saying you specifically have done this but using an example) be outraged by the Trump administration for locking up kids in cages when Harris also basically forced inmates to do slave labor. Both are equally horrendous acts that are inhumane. It's not okay to rationalize that Harri's actions are acceptable to glaze over without any criticism because, "that's what we did in the 90s" & yet be overly angry at the Trump administration for doing crimes against humanity. Well, that's also what the Obama/Biden administration did. So, does Trump get a pass for being even more awful than Obama/Biden? Definitely not in my book but that also means that Harris deserves that criticism and should be held accountable for that history. 

 

I'm not here to say that Harris hasn't changed her mind or that her advocacy isn't genuine; however, what is a very clear pattern for Harris is to hop across ideology because it's the more popular thing to do. I.E. when not running against Bernie in a primary, she was more than happy to tout the benefits of a single payer healthcare system but once she was trying to be the democratic nominee and Bernie was winning the progressive vote, all of a sudden she was a critic of medicare for all. Not to mention the fact that we know by SEC filings the kind of people who were donating to her campaign from from spaces that are ideologically opposed to medicare for all. Which would lead a logical person to believe that the money she received for her campaign impacted her ideology. Considering we already are aware of how lobbyists and other forces impact public policy, I think it's fair to say that Harris would govern and advocate for the interests that thicken her wallet (campaign or through non-political ventures). While that is certainly rational, it makes her corrupt. It also makes her very unlikely to represent the people who will likely vote for a Biden/Harris ticket who think that she's more progressive than she really is. She isn't in fact a progressive. What she is is an empty suit for sale to the highest donor. 

 

She will not make a great VP. She wasn't even going to win her home state of california in the primary, not even going to be in the top 3 if she had stayed in. She adds no additional electoral college benefit. She brings liability. When she WAS in the primary, beyond criticizing Biden (her would be running mate), the only thing she really discussed was how terrible Trump was and I'm sorry to tell you but that's not going to be what persuades a swing voter to vote for her and Biden. Everybody knows how bad Trump is and honestly Harris is more likely to create more divisiveness on the campaign trail that swing voters may find to be too abrasive considering how many people just want things to go back to normal. 

 

And the reality is that our opinions aren't likely to change in this conversation but I would just recommend that if Biden/Harris is a thing and they do win the presidency that you should pay attention to what she does & see if the things I've mentioned turn out to have any accuracy. 

I agree with your point re: people generally hating on Trump for the kids/cages issue and turning a blind eye to it when Obama was in office. I really hate this about politics and the way the media fails at reporting it. For the record, I do not believe that Harris's errors should be glazed over or ignored because it was 'the 90's'. All politicians should be held accountable for decisions they make that ultimately are not just. America will never be a place that holds any politician accountable for anything they do though (obviously no excuse). It's a system flaw that I don't think will ever be broken. That's why I don't care that Harris or any politician in America changes ideals to suit his/her purpose. They all do it. & the one that does it the most subtly gets the job in the end. That's US politics at its core.. an absolute joke. 

We'll agree to disagree re: Harris's potential success/failure at being VP. We'll see what happens in the coming months.. word across the Internet is that the corrupt billionaire in charge at the moment is doing all he can to delay the election