xoxo Craig 55,649 Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 10 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said: You just see what you want to see. You'll never see my point of view, you're that biased. People were all about respecting social distancing until now. It never stops being a pertinent issue no matter what's going on. That's the only reason that I'm saying people shouldn't protest. Speculate all you want with whatever made-up reasons you want. You can't prove what's going on in my head. I don't say this stuff to distract from my "bigotry." I bring it up because you incorrectly tell falsehoods about me. I'm one of the nicest people you'll ever meet. It's a shame that you'll never see or appreciate that. People in real life know me better than anyone online and my true self comes off there. Online, everyone wants to argue, so everything's amplified. It doesn't matter how many times I try to convince you I'm a good person, you just want me to be the villain no matter what. But you always quote me whenever you want to argue. You sure follow me around for someone who couldn't care less. Actually, I got a lot of support this last week as well, of course you conveniently fail to notice that. Luckily, my real friends here see the real me, they took the time to get to know me, unlike you, and they say that I shouldn't waste my time on people trying to bring me down. I care what others think of me too much, I guess. I just speak my truth and I've been nothing but honest. Contrary to what you may think, I'm not fake. If I were truly racist, you'd know and I wouldn't be here, considering this forum is against everything racists stand for. Do you really think racists hang around on Gaga forums day and night for the last decade? I've long decided it doesn't matter what I say to try to convince you, though, nothing will work. And you can't see how I respond to race in day-to-day life, so your accusations have always been without proof. I didn't say a few more years, just until the virus is over. Murder and brutality would continue whether they were protesting or not, it'll always be there. Again, let's be realistic. Prejudice never stops, not as long as humans have free will. It's just about alleviating it. You're acting is if we can literally stop it with protests. Humanity will never be a utopia. I show care by not wanting people to get hurt. Pacifism is a crime now, apparently. I never denied that. I said I blamed them too. I'm on your side. What are you not understanding. It just seemed that you were trying to make out as if I was lying, maybe I read it wrong End Racism Now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shame 25,360 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Just now, StrawberryBlond said: And I didn't say they shouldn't. I'm just saying protestors don't have to resort to vandalism and shouldn't be protesting while a pandemic is going on. vandalism as in getting rid of statue that represents systemic oppression / slavery? so you would also be opposed to the American Patriots dumping tea into the sea as a protest against the Tea Act because it is destruction of private property? and perhaps you would also be against the Women's March on Versailles because it was an evident act of trespassing royal grounds? laws are being violated because important political statements must be made. not sure why you are so adamant in defending the law when LIVES have been murdered under law that was established under white supremacy. and people are protesting during a pandemic because they want to LIVE in a just society that honours the lives of all rather than merely EXIST in a society that does not. angels forever, forever angels Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zander 14,944 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 I've seen people defend this guy on Twitter because he was also a philantropist but it's like so was Jimmy Saville... People thinking he was good because he donated money to churches, schools and hospitals but where did that money come from? Oh yeah, selling slaves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijahfan 27,484 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Wasn't he massively instrumental in the nazis defeat during WWII though? He obviously made terrible political choices in his life, but if it weren't for Churchill, we might all be talking German right now and there might not be any jew left in the world. I admit I really don't know what to think about all this. At the end of the day, no matter what horrible things he might have done, Churchill is known as a symbol of hope and victory against oppression. It feels like the symbol became more important than the man, and it feels like defacing this figure would do more harm than good, idk. Is it really important who he was as a man, as long as he stands for something good in the eyes of everyone? Those are really tricky questions. All the greatest men did good and bad things. I mean, Martin Luther King was a cheater, but nobody needs to remember that aspect of him because he symbolizes something bigger than what he was as a man, I hope I'm making sense. All these people are long dead and gone, so maybe the symbol is what's more important today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
xoxo Craig 55,649 Posted June 8, 2020 Author Share Posted June 8, 2020 9 minutes ago, elijahfan said: Wasn't he massively instrumental in the nazis defeat during WWII though? He obviously made terrible political choices in his life, but if it weren't for Churchill, we might all be talking German right now and there might not be any jew left in the world. I admit I really don't know what to think about all this. At the end of the day, no matter what horrible things he might have done, Churchill is known as a symbol of hope and victory against oppression. It feels like the symbol became more important than the man, and it feels like defacing this figure would do more harm than good, idk. Is it really important who he was as a man, as long as he stands for something good in the eyes of everyone? Those are really tricky questions. All the greatest men did good and bad things. I mean, Martin Luther King was a cheater, but nobody needs to remember that aspect of him because he symbolizes something bigger than what he was as a man, I hope I'm making sense. All these people are long dead and gone, so maybe the symbol is what's more important today. He's a symbol of hope... for western world. If it wasn't for the Americans, Britain would have lost the war. You can hardly say he was a leader in the face of oppression when he literally was the oppressor to many people. Being a cheater is nowhere near the severity of committing war crimes against certain races, and holding racist values close to his heart. Winston was very much a war criminal... but we only focus on the symbolism he gives to white British people. I think defacing or getting rid of the statue can open up those conversations so people can see what his ideologies were like. The video I posted in OP details what Churchill did... and check out this thread. We can learn about him in the history books, we don't need a statues... that statue may represent hope for some, but for a lot of people is a reminder of racism. End Racism Now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
elijahfan 27,484 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said: He's a symbol of hope... for western world. If it wasn't for the Americans, Britain would have lost the war. You can hardly say he was a leader in the face of oppression when he literally was the oppressor to many people. Being a cheater is nowhere near the severity of committing war crimes against certain races, and holding racist values close to his heart. Winston was very much a war criminal... but we only focus on the symbolism he gives to white British people. I think defacing or getting rid of the statue can open up those conversations so people can see what his ideologies were like. The video I posted in OP details what Churchill did... and check out this thread. We can learn about him in the history books, we don't need a statues... that statue may represent hope for some, but for a lot of people is a reminder of racism. Right, I knew this would probably be an unpopular opinion... If he indeed ever represented a symbol of oppression to any minority, there definitely needs to be a conversation about it. Like, I was personally unaware of all this, or of how severe this was. Unfortunately, all our modern societies are built on systems of oppression, and colonization, and evangelization... Then, should we bring down all the statues and burn all the paintings? Idk, maybe it's a good thing to actually be reminded of what a shitty place we come from, in order to learn from it and not repeat those mistakes. Maybe we need to be reminded and be taught that Churchill was a war criminal. Maybe we need to remember who all those bastards were in order to learn from past mistakes. I'm not sure erasing their trace is the best approach. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShtoopidLahv 710 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 10 hours ago, Cookies said: I wouldn't even want a statue of Hitler taken down. history shows trial and error, and though it is controversial, it's still beautiful to look at how far we've come Imagine being Jewish and seeing that beautiful is the last thing that would come to mind wtf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimisaMonster 31,073 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Glad to see it... Stream my new single, 💜"Heartbeat"💜, on Spotify! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddy 5,686 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 10 hours ago, Florin said: At least one of those "thugs" is one of the reasons why Hitler didnt win. Maybe we shouldn't forget the good things that guy did. I doubt that the world wants to imagine what Hitler would have done with the black people if he won. I'm not familiar with what racist things Churchill has done, but even Lincoln who ended slavery had statements that would be considered racists today. If we're going to give credit to any Brit for that, it should be hunty Alan Turing for creating computation machines that cracked the Enigma Code. Not only that, he is largely attributed to kickstarting The Computer Age, so hihi. Despite this, he was chemically castrated under the Churchill administration for his homosexuality and committed suicide as a result. So yeah, sorry to beef with you as always, but **** Winston Churchill. Wish I was there to remove his statue's balls! x Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dit 46,738 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Churchill was one of the most disgusting british leaders to have ever existed. His racist tangents have been well documented. He viewed various people's of color as inferior beings that deserved the horrible things that the Brits did to them (and no this was not a "casualty of the times" type of thing...he genuinely believed it even though he knew it was wrong). I am so happy they've defaced his statue and I also think it is about damn time we stopped idolizing him and romanticizing him in movies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordByron28 1,275 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 3 hours ago, elijahfan said: Right, I knew this would probably be an unpopular opinion... If he indeed ever represented a symbol of oppression to any minority, there definitely needs to be a conversation about it. Like, I was personally unaware of all this, or of how severe this was. Unfortunately, all our modern societies are built on systems of oppression, and colonization, and evangelization... Then, should we bring down all the statues and burn all the paintings? Idk, maybe it's a good thing to actually be reminded of what a shitty place we come from, in order to learn from it and not repeat those mistakes. Maybe we need to be reminded and be taught that Churchill was a war criminal. Maybe we need to remember who all those bastards were in order to learn from past mistakes. I'm not sure erasing their trace is the best approach. I mean isnt that what history books and school is for? Statues are used for reverence, honoring, admiring and glorifying people. I'm less familiar with UK history. However, a lot of US statues honoring the confederacy and other prominent racist figures were built during the 1960s to appease racists upset about the Civil Rights Act and protesters. Much like our post-Civil War period where we were too forgiving of the Confederacy and bungled our Reconstruction era. It allowed these people to warp their message, continue to oppress the oppressed, as well as misinform and indoctrinate others into their flawed biases. Why are there not more statues of prominent black men, LGBT people and Native Americans throughout the country honoring them as people? Or even Irish immigrants discriminated against, Japanese Americans thrown into internment camps, or Hispanic Immigrants who were separated from their families, thrown into cages and forced to drink water out of toilet bowls? It would remind people of our ugly past while also honoring and glorifying actually respectable people who stood up to oppression. Dont see why statues of racists need to be used to remind us of our past when statues of the Oppressed would serve the same reminder while also reminding people what is actually at stake. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBannedShadow 3,424 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Lets replace all those fallen statues with the Gaga x Koons statue! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LM 4,067 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 how pathetic of americans to support this when they have literal slave owners on their banknotes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GagaDelRey 71 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 Winston Churchill and Edward Colston were both seen as heroic individuals, but they were NOT; they were destructive. They were both racist; Churchill was an imperialist and Colston was a slave trader. Neither of them deserved to be put on a pedestal of honor, AT ALL. Anyone who is outraged by the removal of their statues are racist and seriously need to educate themselves. Why continue giving racist figures platforms? Why not reserve monuments for deserving people, people who had positive impacts on the world. A statue of hatred only radiates a negative aura and gives off bad energy, energy that belongs in the past. It is so ridiculous how people can have more respect for a statue than they have for other human beings. Rightfully "vandalizing" a piece of trash is the least of anyone's problems right now. Giving pedestals to strong voices with important messages is our concern now ✊🏿✊🏾✊🏽✊🏼✊🏻: Here are several links to petitions and donations to support #BLM and end racism: https://t.co/3rLTnNmchR?amp=1 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1ZIvDZpHqvNZkf8dGFXVjfk-Wq0Y9FTG410NJbH_8K8M/htmlview https://t.co/dQchcrO12g?amp=1 https://t.co/z3aRwFbeww?amp=1 https://twitter.com/TarotByBronx/status/1267556616917995522?s=20 https://twitter.com/TarotByBronx/status/1267556616917995522?s=20 https://twitter.com/crookedtricking/status/1267922852365209600?s=20 https://twitter.com/sorrybythway/status/1267469168300998656?s=20 Earth is cancelled Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlepotter 76,610 Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 13 hours ago, Cookies said: erasing history won't erase racism. taking down an oppressive symbol isn't "erasing" history. stop trying so hard to be controversial on these topics - you are way too smart to not know that statues aren't made to keep record of history but to glorify it and we do not need to glorify racists to "remember" them. chaeri pls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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