Churchill statue defaced, Edward Calston statue pulled down

[StrawberryBlond 15,564]

45 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

But it is what we get taught in school. The majority of white people go through most of their life without realising the atrocities Churchill did. Churchill is glorified... he is even on the money we use! Maybe you or I don't glorify him, but he is. It even goes as deep as British nationalism and what it means to be British. If you ask someone why they are proud to be British, they will tell you about the war and how Churchill was a hero and we should be proud of our history. People celebrate this man and glorify him to the point it becomes their identity as a British nationalist. Of course, not everyone will. Learning that he was a racist and killed millions in India (for example) never gets talked about or brought up. Its always overlooked in favour of him being a war hero. 

Admittedly, I didn't know about that. But I personally don't know anyone who sees him as a hero. He's just a person in history. But remember that there's awful stuff that came out about some beloved POC as well and many people have brushed over that. I remember when I watched that old episode of Penn and Teller: Bulls**t! where they discussed the sainthood of Mother Theresa, the Dalai Lama and Ghandi. It all came out that they were horrible people and yet to this day, they're still worshipped as amazingly charitable and wholesome. It's not just whites who get glorified nor is it just whites getting their bad deeds conveniently excused.

18 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

Well before we try put the blame on the BLM protests, lemme show you this:

If there is a 2nd spike or a resurgence of Covid 19 (there are already signs of it in Northen England), then the blame should be put on people going to the beach or hanging out with their friends... who are white. Just because the BLM are important right now, the media and other people will try everything to put the blame on Black people and the movement. Its disgusting 

Whenever there were mass gatherings recently, the papers were blaring news of it in extremely negative lights, especially over the Easter weekend and during heatwaves. And the comments are just as outraged. On the contrary, the media have taken the exact opposite view for this. They have framed the protests very positively, saying the vast majority were peaceful and not taking a virus angle at all. Conservative media too, so I don't know what you've been reading. I want any mass gatherings taken to task for a spike in new deaths. The NHS has worked tirelessly and have had many of their staff dying too and they have been vocal during every mass gathering about how selfish people are being. They have every right to be outraged.

[dutchyguy 249]

6 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

I think racism and tackling it is bigger than a virus... and if people wear masks and keep their distance, then it should be fine

Exactly, as long as there are face masks and social distance its fine.. which was not the case. Is it okay now for me to go to a packed beach because 'they are also ignoring the social distance at the protest, so its all fine, im not to blame for anything'.

Again, stating it in every post, that I fully support the message of the protest. 

[Harry 26,836]

8 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Admittedly, I didn't know about that. But I personally don't know anyone who sees him as a hero. He's just a person in history. But remember that there's awful stuff that came out about some beloved POC as well and many people have brushed over that. I remember when I watched that old episode of Penn and Teller: Bulls**t! where they discussed the sainthood of Mother Theresa, the Dalai Lama and Ghandi. It all came out that they were horrible people and yet to this day, they're still worshipped as amazingly charitable and wholesome. It's not just whites who get glorified nor is it just whites getting their bad deeds conveniently excused.

Whenever there were mass gatherings recently, the papers were blaring news of it in extremely negative lights, especially over the Easter weekend and during heatwaves. And the comments are just as outraged. On the contrary, the media have taken the exact opposite view for this. They have framed the protests very positively, saying the vast majority were peaceful and not taking a virus angle at all. Conservative media too, so I don't know what you've been reading. I want any mass gatherings taken to task for a spike in new deaths. The NHS has worked tirelessly and have had many of their staff dying too and they have been vocal during every mass gathering about how selfish people are being. They have every right to be outraged.

It’s always just “but”, “not all”, “not just” with you when it comes to these issues, isn’t it? Just such a dense approach to any discourse. And you wonder why people on here have the perception of you that they do.

Craig literally provided evidence of media putting blame on the BLM protests for a second wave. Go on social media or make a quick Google search - it’s not hard to find. When it comes I suspect nobody will be remembering the people doing a ****ing conga line down the road for VE Day. But yes you’d rather have us believe that everyone is in full support of the black community.

I’m fairly certain I know who you’ll be quick to blame upon the second wave 🙄

[dutchyguy 249]

6 minutes ago, Harry said:

It’s always just “but”, “not all”, “not just” with you when it comes to these issues, isn’t it? Just such a dense approach to any discourse. And you wonder why people on here have the perception of you that they do.

Craig literally provided evidence of media putting blame on the BLM protests for a second wave. Go on social media or make a quick Google search - it’s not hard to find. When it comes I suspect nobody will be remembering the people doing a ****ing conga line down the road for VE Day. But yes you’d rather have us believe that everyone is in full support of the black community.

I’m fairly certain I know who you’ll be quick to blame 🙄

Everybody that ignored social distance rules would be to blame, the party people but also the protesters. Its not one or the other. And obviously thats also what the media should say. 

If you come home with covid, and spread that to your family, and have someone close die on covid.. its not 'oh but those stupid white people also didnt care' at the beach.. 'oh but the media'.. No. Take your responsibility.

[Harry 26,836]

Just now, dutchyguy said:

Everybody that ignored social distance rules would be to blame, the party people but also the protesters. Its not one or the other. And obviously thats also what the media should say. 

As a general principle, I agree. However my point is more about certain people largely ignoring the root cause of the protests and instead focusing their attention, outrage and urgency on “why aren’t they wearing facemasks!”. I think that lack of perspective says a lot about those people.

To me it seems absolutely trivial in comparison ESPECIALLY when you take into consideration vast amounts of white people felt it was appropriate to break the rules at an even more critical time in the pandemic for us because they didn’t want to miss out on a sunny bank holiday weekend at the beach. Seems like very different cases to me. But will the media and right leaning public like StrawberryBlond consider those differences? Or will they use it as an opportunity to demonise the black community again?

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 minute ago, Harry said:

As a general principle, I agree. However my point is more about certain people largely ignoring the root cause of the protests and instead focusing their attention, outrage and urgency on “why aren’t they wearing facemasks!”. I think that lack of perspective says a lot about those people.

To me it seems absolutely trivial in comparison ESPECIALLY when you take into consideration vast amounts of white people felt it was appropriate to break the rules at an even more critical time in the pandemic for us because they didn’t want to miss out on a sunny bank holiday weekend at the beach. Seems like very different cases to me. But will the media and right leaning public like StrawberryBlond consider those differences? Or will they use it as an opportunity to demonise the black community again?

Literally this

[dutchyguy 249]

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

As a general principle, I agree. However my point is more about certain people largely ignoring the root cause of the protests and instead focusing their attention, outrage and urgency on “why aren’t they wearing facemasks!”. I think that lack of perspective says a lot about those people.

To me it seems absolutely trivial in comparison ESPECIALLY when you take into consideration vast amounts of white people felt it was appropriate to break the rules at an even more critical time in the pandemic for us because they didn’t want to miss out on a sunny bank holiday weekend at the beach. Seems like very different cases to me. But will the media and right leaning public like StrawberryBlond consider those differences? Or will they use it as an opportunity to demonise the black community again?

I completely agree with you on the media and the perspective they put.

All I said was that, when looking at these images, I wanna feel supportive but I feel mixed because of the 0 fcks given on social distancing. Why put the people around you, that you care about at risk? And then all the beach examples came and another discussion started :).

[Twitter 14]

3 hours ago, Cookies said:

erasing history won't erase racism.

 

3 hours ago, Sexxx said:

well he was a racist pig so

 

[Harry 26,836]

5 minutes ago, dutchyguy said:

I completely agree with you on the media and the perspective they put.

All I said was that, when looking at these images, I wanna feel supportive but I feel mixed because of the 0 fcks given on social distancing. Why put the people around you, that you care about at risk? And then all the beach examples came and another discussion started :).

I do hear what you're saying, but again, why would your support of the cause be compromised as a result of the minority - and it is the minority - of those who choose to not socially distance? We are fortunate that our situation with the police is not *as* bad as it is in the US. Not good by any means, but still not as severe. I attended a peaceful protest today in my hometown and social distancing was followed and almost everybody I saw was wearing masks etc. These protests have been happening all over the country. Are those the ones we see on national news? No. Will the cause as a whole be blamed? Most likely.

[FATCAT 60,888]

3 hours ago, Cookies said:

erasing history won't erase racism.

There will still be history books where it's written down. Statues like these don't actually share history, they warp our perceptions of history. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 minute ago, FATCAT said:

There will still be history books where it's written down. Statues like these don't actually share history, they warp our perceptions of history. 

Thats a great way of putting it, it really warps peoples perception of history

[Marilyn MonHoe 11,011]

1 hour ago, Morphine Prince said:

Yup, and I was never taught this in World History in US public school. We were only taught about his role in WW2. 

Same. I had no idea about the atrocities that Churchill committed. Jane Elliot was right, we are taught and glorify white supremacy in school while ignoring all of the bad things that these people did. The same especially goes for Christopher Columbus. The man was the colonial English version of Trump

[Voglio 8]

3 hours ago, Cookies said:

erasing history won't erase racism.

then put them in a textbook, not on the damn streets 

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

This changes nothing. Slavery still happened. Slavery is still happening. Only a piece of art got destroyed. Everything else stays the same.

[PartySick 172,521]

3 hours ago, Cookies said:

they're not the superior people. sure, they WERE, but history is history. I wouldn't even want a statue of Hitler taken down. history shows trial and error, and though it is controversial, it's still beautiful to look at how far we've come

Take it down and put it in a museum which is the appropriate place to learn about history.

Taking down public statues of people who did horrid things doesn't erase history, it just stops those people from being venerated.

It's the same arguments with the confederate statues here in the States. They're unnecessary.