Churchill statue defaced, Edward Calston statue pulled down

[MANiCURE 6 10,306]

On 6/7/2020 at 7:28 PM, Cookies said:

erasing history won't erase racism.

This.

Destroying statues is so pointless...

[ShayCristoforo 10,607]

@StrawberryBlond I appreciate you, and what you have to say in your posts and lyrics.
It may be vandalism and disorder, but this also reflects the vandalism and disorder that many BIPOC feel on the inside. And it signals to the ugly underbelly of systemic injustice, which is far uglier than any act of vandalism in my opinion.

This is why people are doing it, and why people are supporting it. A statue is a small price to pay for a mass attention-gaining demonstration. I think this will start to influence big changes, like most of these bold demonstrations will.     
 

[StrawberryBlond 15,566]

18 minutes ago, Harry said:

Thank you for sharing this. Yet for some reason she claims that I’m a bully and manipulate everyone to have this perception... honestly. 

I'm a bully for saying that manipulating someone for sex (and I don't care what gender or orientation is doing this) is a bad viewpoint to have? Seriously? How does that show I'm a bully or manipulate and how does it read like a Trump tweet?

15 minutes ago, Varys said:

Omg I just cant believe that you are a real person. Am almost starting to believe you are a parody account. Like I just love how you just prove time and time again what everybody thinks about you while trying to do the oppositie. Like you would think with all those lines your write you would be better in making people understand you. 

Like completly lack of self awareness. I cant deside if its amusing or sad

I don't prove what everyone thinks of me! You all have me wrong! Some people here twist everything I say to think it's hateful. They bully and gaslight me. It's funny how my friends here understand perfectly well what I mean and don't think I'm hateful at all. Everyone else's cronies unfortunately folow their posts more on this forum so give them support. I have no one to defend me, making me look as if I'm on my own and crazy.

You lot lack self-awareness to see how much you're bullying me. Yet I'm the one accused of narcissism?

7 minutes ago, Harry said:

I don’t remember it because it was an arbitrary conversation about a pop star that I’m not even necessarily a huge fan of. I’m a bully now? Literally the only person I’ve had repeat run ins on this site with is you and I’ve been here for nearly ten years. Amazing that you will accuse me of slandering your name when I simply criticise your points but you’re here baselessly trying to create a narrative that I’m a bully. Hilarious and tragic all at once.

You literally refuse to believe that you could be wrong in any case scenario to the point that you resorted to my sexuality without considering the possibility that you were acting in anyway unfavourable. A trait that you still have and you are demonstrating right now.

“I only make these "surface level" statements because they're all I have.” Precisely. I’m glad you admit it. You are well known for your problematic views on race here to the point that you had to make a pathetic thread trying to dissuade everybody that you’re a racist  If you have to go to that length to convince people and still don’t see that there might be a problem then I don’t know what to tell you. I absolutely don’t believe you think you’re a racist, and I think you have good intentions in that particular arena. But do you miss the mark constantly on this website in those discussions? Yes. 

 

“by the way, @Harry I reviewed your Lana album some years ago that you made for that songwriting contest, it was great! You may be a bad person but you write good songs!).”

You are absolutely despicable. Your entire defence strategy here when people criticise your thoughts in debate is “but you don’t know me outside of a computer screen!!” Yet you feel qualified to outwardly brand me a BAD PERSON with your whole chest like that? You see your hypocrisy? I’ve made comments on your principles and morals but I’ve never made such a sweeping judgement. Disgusting. Good job my respect for you is essentially at zero otherwise I might actually care what you think about me lol.

Bullies spread lies and misinformation about people to make them look bad. They say awful things about their personal life. They go after them to start arguments with them just to get a kick out of bringing them down. They don't drop a conversation when even thought their victim has said it's upsetting them. You do all these things. You were the first person to be mean to me, your very first words to me were that of rudeness and you've not let up ever since. You just don't believe you're a bully as you have like-minded friends where who like all your hateful posts about me so you think you're justified. And I'm not the first person to complain about you. Just because people don't have public run-ins with you doesn't mean they don't secretly discuss you and your rudeness to other members.

Right, because you've never acted out of emotion when someone upset you? We're not always saints when we feel bullied, who knew? No amount of apology or time passed can get you to drop this but I can't complain about your bullying towards me right now? How convenient for you.

My list about why I'm not a racist can only be so long. It's too long or not long enough depending on who I speak to. I know what's in my heart as do my loved ones and they're the ones who are fit to judge me seeing as they know me much better than some nobodies online. I have to go to these lengths to tell people I'm not a racist because they keep calling me one. Don't call me one and I won't have to defend myself. Wait, that sentence didn't make sense - either I'm racist or I have good intentions, which one is it? If you just think I'm missing the mark, then why call me a racist?

Yes, I'm allowed to brand you a bad person as you have said things that have really hurt me and never apologise for them. You never learn from your nastiness. You have made sweeping judgements about me. You once called me a "horrible, horrible woman." Oh, and as people are apparently spilling the tea on me, ( @OG Gaga Stan, you might want to hear this little tidbit about Harry). You once said it's a woman's right to choose if she doesn't want to have sex or not and yet, in one of your most outrageous comments about me you once told another member "don't listen to her, she is a virgin and hateful towards any woman who is confident in their sexuality." Hypocrite, thy name is Harry. Someone even called you out on it and you just laughed at them. You know, no one ever made fun of my virginity apart from you. If that's not being a bully, I don't know what is.

4 minutes ago, KanyeWest said:

I think it's best to ignore her tbh

Yep, ignore someone when you've run out of rebuttals.

[Varys 30,916]

4 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 

I don't prove what everyone thinks of me! You all have me wrong! Some people here twist everything I say to think it's hateful. They bully and gaslight me. It's funny how my friends here understand perfectly well what I mean and don't think I'm hateful at all. Everyone else's cronies unfortunately folow their posts more on this forum so give them support. I have no one to defend me, making me look as if I'm on my own and crazy.

You lot lack self-awareness to see how much you're bullying me. Yet I'm the one accused of narcissism?

 

See you do it again. you just don't get it. Where are your friends who "understand" you. Its always somebody else with you. alway me myself and I. I'm a victim  you making me cry you are bullying me. You are really predictable tbh.  I have you seen have argumetns with countless members and it always ends up the same. Yet it is always someone eles fault and its a BIG complot againt you. NO sis IT IS YOU. LOOK IN THE MIRROR 

[StrawberryBlond 15,566]

23 minutes ago, ShayCristoforo said:

@StrawberryBlond I appreciate you, and what you have to say in your posts and lyrics.
It may be vandalism and disorder, but this also reflects the vandalism and disorder that many BIPOC feel on the inside. And it signals to the ugly underbelly of systemic injustice, which is far uglier than any act of vandalism in my opinion.

This is why people are doing it, and why people are supporting it. A statue is a small price to pay for a mass attention-gaining demonstration. I think this will start to influence big changes, like most of these bold demonstrations will.     
 

But I don't believe you have to have vandalism and disorder to send a message. My first thought when I'm outraged is never to smash things. You can get anger out in healthy ways.

I don't care about the statue being pulled down, it shouldn't have been pulled down under these conditions. You aren't bringing up my issue with public safety. Pulling down a statue when you're not trained professionally and without appropriate measures taken is very dangerous, particularly if it's a very big statue and is from a great height. Protestors weren't even thinking about their own safety, it seemed. There already is change happening, the powers that be are listening. I just don't want to think that the only reason change came about was because violence and disruption caused the powers that be to give in out of fear. They should be giving in in wake of peaceful protests because it's the right thing to do, not because they're pressured into it by force. It's much more meaningful that way. Sadiq Khan is saying that he's looking into dismantling all slave trader statues. See? The public don't need to do this themselves. A lot of them just want their faces in the paper anyway, they just want glory and to be in the history books. That's why they don't want the council taking them down, there's no glory for them that way. Acitivism should not be about self-congratulation and if it is, they're in it for the wrong reasons. Even people who photograph themselves at marches are very telling to me. Why do you need to prove you were there? For social justice points? If you know you're doing good, you don't feel the need to tell everyone. I do good quietly. People just think that if they can't see something it means it isn't going on, which is so basic a view to have.

3 minutes ago, Varys said:

See you do it again. you just don't get it. Where are your friends who "understand" you. Its always somebody else with you. alway me myself and I. I'm a victim  you making me cry you are bullying me. You are really predictable tbh.  I have you seen have argumetns with countless members and it always ends up the same. Yet it is always someone eles fault and its a BIG complot againt you. NO sis IT IS YOU. LOOK IN THE MIRROR 

These friends who understand me are busy working - film-making, digital editing, air stewarding, to be precise, plus much more. They don't have the time to be on GGD 24/7, finding every thread their friends like. Apparently, the more hateful people on here have friends that do, however. That's why it looks unbalanced and no one's defending me but when I tell them afterwards, they're always shocked and appalled. If I'm complaining about someone's mistreatment towards me, trust me, it's a valid concern. I don't look for trouble, trouble finds me. I'm no bother to you if you don't bother me.

[Harry 26,836]

25 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I'm a bully for saying that manipulating someone for sex (and I don't care what gender or orientation is doing this) is a bad viewpoint to have? Seriously? How does that show I'm a bully or manipulate and how does it read like a Trump tweet?

I don't prove what everyone thinks of me! You all have me wrong! Some people here twist everything I say to think it's hateful. They bully and gaslight me. It's funny how my friends here understand perfectly well what I mean and don't think I'm hateful at all. Everyone else's cronies unfortunately folow their posts more on this forum so give them support. I have no one to defend me, making me look as if I'm on my own and crazy.

You lot lack self-awareness to see how much you're bullying me. Yet I'm the one accused of narcissism?

Bullies spread lies and misinformation about people to make them look bad. They say awful things about their personal life. They go after them to start arguments with them just to get a kick out of bringing them down. They don't drop a conversation when even thought their victim has said it's upsetting them. You do all these things. You were the first person to be mean to me, your very first words to me were that of rudeness and you've not let up ever since. You just don't believe you're a bully as you have like-minded friends where who like all your hateful posts about me so you think you're justified. And I'm not the first person to complain about you. Just because people don't have public run-ins with you doesn't mean they don't secretly discuss you and your rudeness to other members.

Right, because you've never acted out of emotion when someone upset you? We're not always saints when we feel bullied, who knew? No amount of apology or time passed can get you to drop this but I can't complain about your bullying towards me right now? How convenient for you.

My list about why I'm not a racist can only be so long. It's too long or not long enough depending on who I speak to. I know what's in my heart as do my loved ones and they're the ones who are fit to judge me seeing as they know me much better than some nobodies online. I have to go to these lengths to tell people I'm not a racist because they keep calling me one. Don't call me one and I won't have to defend myself. Wait, that sentence didn't make sense - either I'm racist or I have good intentions, which one is it? If you just think I'm missing the mark, then why call me a racist?

Yes, I'm allowed to brand you a bad person as you have said things that have really hurt me and never apologise for them. You never learn from your nastiness. You have made sweeping judgements about me. You once called me a "horrible, horrible woman." Oh, and as people are apparently spilling the tea on me, ( @OG Gaga Stan, you might want to hear this little tidbit about Harry). You once said it's a woman's right to choose if she doesn't want to have sex or not and yet, in one of your most outrageous comments about me you once told another member "don't listen to her, she is a virgin and hateful towards any woman who is confident in their sexuality." Hypocrite, thy name is Harry. Someone even called you out on it and you just laughed at them. You know, no one ever made fun of my virginity apart from you. If that's not being a bully, I don't know what is.

Yep, ignore someone when you've run out of rebuttals.

I never said you are a bully... what are you doing?

You have literally done all of the things that you named to me as well - it’s outrageous that you don’t see that. I like how you keep using these words like “friends” and “cronies” - the people also in this thread are not people I’d consider my friends, even though I’m sure they are very nice people, I have not once had conversations with any of them privately nor do I know virtually anything about them. You like to pretend I have some sort of secret conspiracy against you that I’ve recruited others for, and it’s bizarre. For one, you aren’t that special. And the truth is I don’t really have a personal friendship with anyone on this site, I just post from time to time. I have friends in real life that I spent the majority of my time speaking to. A novel concept, I know.

I’ve never once lashed out at anyone based on their gender identity/race/sexuality/anything else within that sphere because I’m angry, no. It’s baffling to me that you believe that sort of a response to be a normal thing that one does to try and cause a reaction?

And therein lies my point. You think racism is as simple as “I don’t like/value POC” or “I do like/value POC”. It’s not that simple. You display racial bias constantly and refuse to accept it. That you think racism is always conscious and you are so confused by my statement shows that you are not as enlightened on this subject as you’ve continued to maintain that you are. I’d desperately encourage you to look into that.

Making that comment is one of the things I apologised for, though you seem to have conveniently forgotten about that. I apologised for the brash way in which I made that point, though I stand by the sentiment of it. You spend an awful lot of time on here bashing women for being confident in their sexuality which is gross and bizarre coming from a self proclaimed “feminist”. You really thought you were doing something bringing that up, huh? Yet all you did was expose another one of your problematic views.

You love to claim that I’m trying to paint you in a bad light and you have been yelling at people in this thread for bringing up issues outside of this thread but you keep doing the exact same - it’s fine when you do it? But I’m the hypocrite? Sad. 

[Harry 26,836]

6 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

If I'm complaining about someone's mistreatment towards me, trust me, it's a valid concern. 

If I’m complaining, then trust me it’s valid. But if anyone complains about me, then trust me it’s all rubbish.

Honestly....

[ShayCristoforo 10,607]

3 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

But I don't believe you have to have vandalism and disorder to send a message. My first thought when I'm outraged is never to smash things. You can get anger out in healthy ways.

I don't care about the statue being pulled down, it shouldn't have been pulled down under these conditions. You aren't bringing up my issue with public safety. Pulling down a statue when you're not trained professionally and without appropriate measures taken is very dangerous, particularly if it's a very big statue and is from a great height. Protestors weren't even thinking about their own safety, it seemed. There already is change happening, the powers that be are listening. I just don't want to think that the only reason change came about was because violence and disruption caused the powers that be to give in out of fear. They should be giving in in wake of peaceful protests because it's the right thing to do, not because they're pressured into it by force. It's much more meaningful that way. Sadiq Khan is saying that he's looking into dismantling all slave trader statues. See? The public don't need to do this themselves. A lot of them just want their faces in the paper anyway, they just want glory and to be in the history books. That's why they don't want the council taking them down, there's no glory for them that way. Acitivism should not be about self-congratulation and if it is, they're in it for the wrong reasons. Even people who photograph themselves at marches are very telling to me. Why do you need to prove you were there? For social justice points? If you know you're doing good, you don't feel the need to tell everyone. I do good quietly. People just think that if they can't see something it means it isn't going on, which is so basic a view to have.

I didn't see your comments about public safety. I was initially referring to all the nay-sayers, and users who pop in and drop a basic, vacant "opinion" without much explanation.

Safety concern is valid to me.
But my main point is this: You personally wouldn't smash things -- you aren't the archetype of moral principles for everyone else. Especially those who have been historically and systemically oppressed.  

I agree, some people are acting for clout or self-gratification through social media. But others are simply excited to be part of an historic moment and want to document their participation. And this kind of demonstration REALLY REALLY REALLY gets the point across. There have been many peaceful protests for decades, and there is still racial disparity. So this bold demonstration is also a way of saying "we really really really aren't playing around this time."  

You say "Khan is saying that he's looking into dismantling" which can sound flaky to many people. Of course, changes take time, but BIPOC have heard statements like that before. An announcement about an announcement. And we're still in the same boat.
Pun intended.     

[PhantomOfTheDance 13,795]

1 hour ago, MANiCURE 6 said:

This.

Destroying statues is so pointless...

I thought you were another person trying to drag me after 3 days.

[Varys 30,916]

38 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 

These friends who understand me are busy working - film-making, digital editing, air stewarding, to be precise, plus much more. They don't have the time to be on GGD 24/7, finding every thread their friends like. Apparently, the more hateful people on here have friends that do, however. That's why it looks unbalanced and no one's defending me but when I tell them afterwards, they're always shocked and appalled. If I'm complaining about someone's mistreatment towards me, trust me, it's a valid concern. I don't look for trouble, trouble finds me. I'm no bother to you if you don't bother me.

I could respond to this and tell you the harsh truth but I'm not going to do it since I don't think you can handle it and you wouldn't listen anyway. its kinda sad

[PinkJelly 1,825]

I can understand why the statue in Bristol was removed by the public. People have been calling for its removal for years, there’s been a petition to get it removed but no one wanted to listen. There’s also been calls for road/building names linked to Colston changed but no action by local or national government. The riots in America just brought forward this kind of action here in my honest opinion, it was only a matter of time before something like this happened because government don’t want to listen.

Churchill again, I can understand why his statue was defaced. It was defaced in the early 2000’s I believe for exactly the same reason and nothing was done about removing the statue. He’s a white supremacist at the end of the day despite his efforts to bring the war to an end - it doesn’t appease all the abhorrent things he did or said. It’s time for us to stop glorifying people like this in British culture and for the education system to stop cherry picking which parts of history kids learn about in schools.

That being said, I don’t agree that violent protests are always the answer, and should be a last resort. One report said protesters ‘feared for their lives’ when they saw a police horse. I personally don’t understand that, the whole point of them being there is to ensure a peaceful protest and ensure public safety.

Throwing glass bottles and lighting flares/fireworks would of course easily have spooked the horses, it’s a miracle that half the protesters didn’t get trampled because of the ill-judged actions of a few. Sure, this topic gets heated and rightly so, racism in all its forms throughout society needs to go - but you shouldn’t assault a police officer or result to public disorder.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, M Monstre said:

Girl, what the ****  

I know no one was talking about adding statues. That's why it was a hypothetical. 

 It wasn’t a hypothetical because you used the opposite of the example; adding statues. Do you know how a hypothetical works..? Cause that’s not it sis. Adding statues has nothing to do with removing them, what you did is you took what that user said out of context to create a situation where clearly they wouldn’t win because no one would get behind adding a statue of Hitler for OBVIOUS reasons. So no, it wasn’t a hypothetical  

[REALITY 80,166]

18 minutes ago, lovedillon said:

 It wasn’t a hypothetical because you used the opposite of the example; adding statues. Do you know how a hypothetical works..? Cause that’s not it sis. Adding statues has nothing to do with removing them, what you did is you took what that user said out of context to create a situation where clearly they wouldn’t win because no one would get behind adding a statue of Hitler for OBVIOUS reasons. So no, it wasn’t a hypothetical  

"Hypotheticals are possible situations, statements or questions about something imaginary rather than something real. Hypotheticals deal with the concept of 'what if?'."

Hunny, the basis of a hypothetical is that it ISN'T real. That is literally in the definition of what a hypothetical situation is. Of course I'm not talking about real sh*t. If I was, it wouldn't be a ****ing hypothetical.

Please come back when you learn some basic ****ing concepts  

[StrawberryBlond 15,566]

5 minutes ago, Harry said:

I never said you are a bully... what are you doing?

You have literally done all of the things that you named to me as well - it’s outrageous that you don’t see that. I like how you keep using these words like “friends” and “cronies” - the people also in this thread are not people I’d consider my friends, even though I’m sure they are very nice people, I have not once had conversations with any of them privately nor do I know virtually anything about them. You like to pretend I have some sort of secret conspiracy against you that I’ve recruited others for, and it’s bizarre. For one, you aren’t that special. And the truth is I don’t really have a personal friendship with anyone on this site, I just post from time to time. I have friends in real life that I spent the majority of my time speaking to. A novel concept, I know.

I’ve never once lashed out at anyone based on their gender identity/race/sexuality/anything else within that sphere because I’m angry, no. It’s baffling to me that you believe that sort of a response to be a normal thing that one does to try and cause a reaction?

And therein lies my point. You think racism is as simple as “I don’t like/value POC” or “I do like/value POC”. It’s not that simple. You display racial bias constantly and refuse to accept it. That you think racism is always conscious and you are so confused by my statement shows that you are not as enlightened on this subject as you’ve continued to maintain that you are. I’d desperately encourage you to look into that.

Making that comment is one of the things I apologised for, though you seem to have conveniently forgotten about that. I apologised for the brash way in which I made that point, though I stand by the sentiment of it. You spend an awful lot of time on here bashing women for being confident in their sexuality which is gross and bizarre coming from a self proclaimed “feminist”. You really thought you were doing something bringing that up, huh? Yet all you did was expose another one of your problematic views.

You love to claim that I’m trying to paint you in a bad light and you have been yelling at people in this thread for bringing up issues outside of this thread but you keep doing the exact same - it’s fine when you do it? But I’m the hypocrite? Sad. 

You thanked OG Gaga Stan for bringing up what I said about James Charles and then said I had some nerve to say this and then accuse you of being a manipulative bully, as if my views on the issue were manipulative or bullying.

What lies have I spread about you? I've only given my opinion on you. I only said that I once THOUGHT you were being sexist towards me but said it when I didn't know much about you. I don't spread around the idea that you're sexist to this day. I haven't started an argument with you in ages, every so often you pop up and start one with me, as you did in this thread. I have never laughed at anything in your personal life (because I don't comment on stuff I know nothing about, you should try it sometime). If anything, I've tried to patch things up with you but you brush me off every time. You don't want to change your mind about me. I don't really care how much you know these people. They're people who dislike me and they've clearly planned out to like any negative post you say about me, it's always the same people liking what you say. I notice it's people who have said bad things to me in the past but don't deign to now as they think they're too good to debate with rabble like me.

I didn't "lash out" at you, I responded calmly. And I didn't insult you for your orientation, I suggested you were sexist and that it could stem from gay misogyny. You're framing this differently to make it appear worse than it was.

I don't think racist thought is that simple nor is it always conscious. Where is this racial bias you see? I don't stereotype, I don't use slurs, I don't hold anything against someone for being non-white, I've even said that I've never had negative experiences with POC. I've got nothing I need to look into. I've done it before like I'm sure all white people have and the answer has always been no, there's nothing deeply problematic with my views. My instinct is always to respect everyone until they've given me a reason not to.

You hardly apologised back then. It was more of a "sorry you were so offended and I can't help it that you're so sensitive." That's not an apology. You said you were merely stating a fact so you didn't understand why I was so offended by it. And you say now, you stand by the sentiment of it. I don't hold women's sexual expression against them in and of itself but as a woman, I know what harms that certain sexual expression can bring to women and how it affects their self-esteem but then, as a man, you may not fully understand that nuance. Don't tell me my experience of womanhood and the knock-on affects of how we live our lives is something I don't understand. If you think I shouldn't lecture black people about what it's like to black, don't tell me what's problematic to say about my own gender.

I thought it was a case of "fair's fair." If people want to talk s**t about me for the supposed bad stuff I've said then let's make this an equal opportunities witch hunt. And it's nobody's business to come into a public thread and reveal stuff about me that they've used out of context and misconstrued.

3 minutes ago, Harry said:

If I’m complaining, then trust me it’s valid. But if anyone complains about me, then trust me it’s all rubbish.

Honestly....

Because some people seem to make it their duty to complain about me. They set out to find what's my potential problematic view today. I see people's views I don't agree with all the time but if I responded to all of them, I'd have no time in my day. Save your complaints for actual racism. I'm on your side, if you'd just wake up and see that. Just because I don't match your views exactly doesn't mean I'm against you.

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

"Hypotheticals are possible situations, statements or questions about something imaginary rather than something real. Hypotheticals deal with the concept of 'what if?'."

Hunny, the basis of a hypothetical is that it ISN'T real. That is literally in the definition of what a hypothetical situation is. Of course I'm not talking about real sh*t. If I was, it wouldn't be a ****ing hypothetical.

Please come back when you learn some basic ****ing concepts  

Omg you’re just not getting it. I’m not talking about whether the hypothetical is REAL or NOT. You m saying your “hypothetical” has no relation to what was being discussed. Here’s an example “what if there was a statue of so & so that hurt a bunch of white people & POC wanted to keep it up?” In this hypothetical the user defending the statues would be in the place of the those wanting to tear it down hopefully providing some insight & making them capable of empathizing.

You didn’t do that, you made a “hypothetical” of the opposite situation. So yes, while it may have been a hypothetical it wasn’t related to the situation being discussed, therefore having nothing to do with the debate. The hypothetical deals with what if but is centered around the original situation. Do you understand now? Because I legit don’t have the time to teach you what you should already know.