Churchill statue defaced, Edward Calston statue pulled down

[Karl 3,575]

21 minutes ago, Florin said:

Well. You are wrong. Alan Turning was convicted after the actual queen started her reign.

Churchill wasnt a war criminal and he wasnt more racist that the common brits at the time. Only if you cherry pick certain statements and events and judge them without context, you can say something like this. 

So you're saying he was massively racist but it's ok because everyone else was back then? 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

Just now, Karl said:

So you're saying he was massively racist but it's ok because everyone else was back then? 

This... but there is also a difference between holding racist views and acting out and killing people because of those racist views

[lego 44,165]

1 hour ago, Florin said:

Churchill wasnt a war criminal and he wasnt more racist that the common brits at the time. Only if you cherry pick certain statements and events and judge them without context, you can say something like this. 

 

Only if you don’t consider Indian people’s lives important and equal to white Europeans, you could say he was not a war criminal.. 

The way you justify his racism is disgusting too, nothing here is out of context. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/29/winston-churchill-policies-contributed-to-1943-bengal-famine-study

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/world-history/winston-churchill-genocide-dictator-shashi-tharoor-melbourne-writers-festival-a7936141.html

 

He referred to Palestinians as "barbaric hordes who ate little but camel dung." When quashing insurgents in Sudan in the earlier days of his imperial career, Churchill boasted of killing three "savages." Contemplating restive populations in northwest Asia, he infamously lamented the "squeamishness" of his colleagues, who were not in "favor of using poisoned gas against uncivilized tribes."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/03/the-dark-side-of-winston-churchills-legacy-no-one-should-forget/%3foutputType=amp

 

 

In 1943, famine struck the state of Bengal in India, leading to an some three million deaths. But even as British officials telegrammed for aid, Churchill remained unmoved. Relief would do no good, he assessed, and it was Indians' fault for "breeding like rabbits." As the British secretary of state for India noted in his diaries: "I... couldn't help telling him that I didn't see much difference between his outlook and Hitler's... I am by no means sure whether on this subject of India he is really quite sane."

German historian Jörg Friedrich has also controversially described the Allied bombing of cities like Dresden, Hamburg, and Cologne as a war crime for which Churchill has never stood trial. Friedrich says that the bombing campaign killed more than 635,000 civilians, including around 75,000 children—and many of the bombings were carried out on small towns of little strategic value. Friedrich is not alone in this opinion—German novelist Günter Grass believed that the firebombing of Dresden alone constituted a war crime.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/ae55v8/winston-churchill-racist-warmonger-sterilize-mentally-ill

 

 

[lego 44,165]

14 hours ago, Harry said:

People make nuanced and compassionate arguments about the protests and the BLM movement and your response is essentially “BuT sOciAL diStANcInG!!!1!!” as if that’s the extent of this complex issue. Yawn. You don’t care cos it doesn’t affect you. Period. You’re constantly targeting marginalised communities with dense and uninformed views whilst under the guise of being a “leftist” and I am absolutely sick of it.

 

 

16 hours ago, Harry said:

Privilege is thinking "this can wait". You simply don't care. Go out there and see the passion, the anger, the hurt. You absolutely do not care about these people and their plight and it's disgusting. The fact that the urgency to get out in the streets in the middle of this should tell you what you need to know. But again, you simply don't care.

Again - the point is less about whether it's acceptable in terms of social distancing or not. Again people are literally protesting for human rights and you seem to have an issue with that. Which is absolutely not surprising to me given your rhetoric. You have been more upset about lockdown rules and looting than you are about black lives and that's exactly who you are.

 

 

 

13 hours ago, Harry said:

Thank you. This movement is absolutely unprecedented. We haven’t seen it like this for any of the other tragedies in recent years. People are tired. Voices are finally starting to be heard but *** would rather they stay home and silence themselves for a few more years and simply allow the murder and brutality to continue... it’s almost like she doesn’t understand - or perhaps even care?

 

 

all of this ^

 

[FentyGa 14,340]

20 hours ago, Cookies said:

it's just my opinion, smh. I cherish history, good and bad

and people are allowed to come for you for your opinion. 

[TittyGlitterDance 463]

20 hours ago, Rbr said:

Trust me, “bad” history will never be forgotten by those who suffered and keep suffering like the black community.

No need for statues of racists, nazis or disgusting leaders of any form to remind history. They are the WORST part of it.

This! The tearing down of their image IS history. 

[Aphrodizy26 6]

20 hours ago, Varys said:

I just read it. Am so shocked right now. We never learned this. I litterally thought he was a hero until 5 min ago. I feel so terrible 

Here in texas they apparently omitted slavery as a whole

[Varys 30,916]

1 minute ago, Aphrodizy26 said:

Are u in the US?

No. Why?

[Aphrodizy26 6]

1 minute ago, Varys said:

No. Why?

Sorry, i realized that and edited the post! 

[Orlam 144]

it’s what he deserves

fat pig

[Guest]

19 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Don't get me wrong, we shouldn't honour bad people, however, the mere sight of a statue isn't actually going to lead to your discrimination, only real life events can do that.

You seem to not get the point of it. It's a symbol, and symbols matter in this world, obviously nobody with brain cells will think tearing down a statue will solve racism

[Guest]

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

To see that statue covered in paint, kneeled on (which is kinda irrelevant because a case in the present day has no parallel to the old days) and thrown in the docks with a rope around its neck by an angry mob is quite...sinister. It's essentially like saying the same thing that happened to blacks become funny when it's done to whites, even if it's a statue of an awful white person. I thought the last thing they'd want to do is do a mock lynching.

 

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Racism is not the only injustice going on but it continually seems to be the only one that's seen as worth protesting for and to an extremist level at that.

 

17 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

It's the modern age, there's mutliple ways you can make a change from your own bedroom, for God's sake.

 

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

And everyone's focusing more on the statues being pulled down than about officers acting within the law getting attacked and their innocent horses getting bikes rammed into them.

 

15 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I do care, I'm just not the protesting type.

 

[Guest]

19 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Absolutely not every white person thinks this.

 

20 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

You really can't make a broad generalisation like that.

Everything you've said so far is about "Me" "I"

"I don't glorify Churchill" therefore every white person from the UK doesn't glorify Churchill.

"I'm not the protesting type" therefore every citizen of the UK should not protest and do it in their "bedroom".

You are not the center of the world and you, as much as you say you are a empathizing kind person, you do not empathize or try to understand other people's experiences in life as a person of color. This is your problem. If you see this as an attack it's your loss, this is your opportunity or chance to reevaluate yourself

[raragaga 8,119]

22 hours ago, Cookies said:

I wouldn't even want a statue of Hitler taken down. 

are you ****ing kidding me?

[StrawberryBlond 15,564]

14 hours ago, xoxo Craig said:

It just seemed that you were trying to make out as if I was lying, maybe I read it wrong

Yes, you did read it wrong. To clarify, I'm holding everyone to task who flouted quarantine rules. I took issue with you saying that it would be framed as black protestors being responsible for a second wave and them only. I pointed out that actually, media has been widely slamming anyone who's been flouting quarantine rules for quite some time now, especially sunbathers, day trippers and people throwing parties. Going out for non-essential reasons is in general frowned upon, so anyone doing it should be held to account. That's all I meant.

14 hours ago, shame said:

vandalism as in getting rid of statue that represents systemic oppression / slavery?

so you would also be opposed to the American Patriots dumping tea into the sea as a protest against the Tea Act because it is destruction of private property? and perhaps you would also be against the Women's March on Versailles because it was an evident act of trespassing royal grounds?

laws are being violated because important political statements must be made.

not sure why you are so adamant in defending the law when LIVES have been murdered under law that was established under white supremacy.

and people are protesting during a pandemic because they want to LIVE in a just society that honours the lives of all rather than merely EXIST in a society that does not.

I'm not against the statue getting pulled down. I'm just saying protestors shouldn't have done it. The black mayor of Bristol didn't even agree with them taking it upon themselves either. He said it will be fished out and put in a museum with the placards around it. Seems like a great idea. I sometimes think people who do stuff like this just do it out of ego, they want their faces in the history books, they don't genuinely care that much for a statue, they just want their photo in the papers. Public property damage always leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

I'm not angry that people are protesting, I'm angry that people are getting violent when they have no right to be, especially in the UK. When you say violence is ok sometimes, it opens up the door to it being accepted all the time. And you won't be able to protest at all in the future if you get the virus and die. Wanting to protect lives of protestors isn't selfish, quite the opposite.

1 hour ago, lego said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

all of this ^

 

I see you went that route instead of directly quoting me. You treat me like quite the pariah these days but passively aggressively like negative posts about me. I do believe in the latter quote you posted but that doesn't mean they should do it anyway...because there's still a pandemic. You can be torn on multiple beliefs, you know. That's what makes us complex humans.

1 hour ago, KanyeWest said:

You seem to not get the point of it. It's a symbol, and symbols matter in this world, obviously nobody with brain cells will think tearing down a statue will solve racism

I know the symbolism but that doesn't mean you have to take it upon yourself to do it.

41 minutes ago, KanyeWest said:

 

Everything you've said so far is about "Me" "I"

"I don't glorify Churchill" therefore every white person from the UK doesn't glorify Churchill.

"I'm not the protesting type" therefore every citizen of the UK should not protest and do it in their "bedroom".

You are not the center of the world and you, as much as you say you are a empathizing kind person, you do not empathize or try to understand other people's experiences in life as a person of color. This is your problem. If you see this as an attack it's your loss, this is your opportunity or chance to reevaluate yourself

I didn't say I was the centre of the universe. But obviously, as I'm replying to a topic, my own opinion will be felt, as is everyone else's. And I never said people shouldn't protest, just that they should do it peacefully and ideally, once lockdown is over.

And I can't contain all my thoughts in one post. Whenever I've tried to show how much of a non-racist I am, it just makes people worse. I can't seem to get adequately transmit my anti-racism through a screen. You don't see what I do in my day-to-day life. You have no right to make that judgement. Just this morning, I was having discussions about race with my parents. Oh, but, you can't see that, therefore, it never happened, right? If anyone needs to the evaluating, it's you, for putting such high standards on people which you can't even police because you can't see what they are and aren't engaging in.