White community begs for forgiveness

[Economy 53,068]

1 minute ago, HorusRa2 said:

The only problem I have is that when it is suggested that it is my job as a white person to fix the rigged system is exactly that. I as a solitary person cant change a racist and rigged system. Ive tried twice now to vote for the person who would try to bring real justice to bare fruit but the majority of democrats continue to choose moderate democrats as the party nominee. The system doesn't just hate black and brown people. The system hates anyone not part of the oligarchy class. What my job as a white person would actually be to unite with black and brown folks to help change the rigged system. Its a shared responsibility & its not mine alone to bare. 

It's very complicated. Bias and injustice happen on so many levels to so many different groups of people for so many different reasons

 

I never liked lumping people together in a group but rather focus on the individual instead which is why I would never personally apologize for atrocities of white people because I never did anything myself

 

My family wasn't even in Canada more than 50 years ago nevermind so when ppl have pointed the finger at me for aboriginal rights issues I'm like we weren't even here. And even if my family was I'm responsible for my actions not some ancestor I never met

 

Of course if these people wanna do it because they think it might promote healing it's not my place to tell them not to but personally it's the system that we collectively have to target as you said

 

Racism and prejudice (whether systemic or just prejudice) is also not just a white people problem cuz I work in the most racist place ever in my new job I've discovered and it's a veriety of backgrounds that share in those attitudes

 

of course I'm also branching off into attitudes there as i know systemically speaking is it more of a white thing but in terms of creating division non-systemic racial prejudice is problematic too which is why I brought it up

 

but back on point since I'm slowly starting to trail off, it's the system that needs to be attacked. In terms of individual actions, that's up to each person to decide whether or not to act like bigots and it's not up to one person to apologize for someone else's actions just because that other person shares your skin colour

[Bt1 5,213]

Lol. I cant at Bernie supporters thinking that Bernie is the solution or something. He lost 2 times because black people wanted someone else. 

[SharkmanthaC 115,113]

This doesn't look like they are begging, but they are praying.  

[Runway 27,876]

Uh...

[HorusRa2 5,005]

1 minute ago, Florin said:

Lol. I cant at Bernie supporters thinking that Bernie is the solution or something. He lost 2 times because black people wanted someone else. 

ok and what did Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden do for racial justice since you "cant" at me thinking Bernies policies that were also crafted by POC on his team as it relates to criminal justice? His plan was by and large lauded by POC I know and respect. All Biden says is "Im going to restore the soul of the nation" but has shown zero leadership in well over a month with regard to covid or whats happening right now. 

[Lion Heart 15,041]

...

[Franz Ferdinand 2,359]

5 minutes ago, Economy said:

I never liked lumping people together in a group but rather focus on the individual instead which is why I would never personally apologize for atrocities of white people because I never did anything myself

But you benefit from the system. This is the issue with distancing yourself from the problem. You can tell argue that you and your family are not directly responsible for racism and whatever, but ultimately you benefit from whiteness (in ways you may not even be aware of) and no amount of theorizing or arguing is going to change that. We are all members of society, whether we protest it or not. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

1 minute ago, Franz Ferdinand said:

But you benefit from the system. This is the issue with distancing yourself from the problem. You can tell argue that you and your family are not directly responsible for racism and whatever, but ultimately you benefit from whiteness (in ways you may not even be aware of) and no amount of theorizing or arguing is going to change that. We are all members of society, whether we protest it or not. 

And yet we go back to my original point that the system is rigged by a corrupt government. You can hardly place blame on white people as a whole when its the system that refuses to change. You would be right that white people are beneficiaries to that system but this isnt some new fight or anything. White allies and black folks have been looking for justice for decades and are continually ignored by both political parties.

[Franz Ferdinand 2,359]

Just now, HorusRa2 said:

And yet we go back to my original point that the system is rigged by a corrupt government. You can hardly place blame on white people as a whole when its the system that refuses to change. You would be right that white people are beneficiaries to that system but this isnt some new fight or anything. White allies and black folks have been looking for justice for decades and are continually ignored by both political parties.

Corrupt governments, in the plural. Anti-blackness is global. And I agree with you that the system is rigged and that this fight ain't new. I don't get your point, though.

[Economy 53,068]

11 minutes ago, Franz Ferdinand said:

But you benefit from the system. This is the issue with distancing yourself from the problem. You can tell argue that you and your family are not directly responsible for racism and whatever, but ultimately you benefit from whiteness (in ways you may not even be aware of) and no amount of theorizing or arguing is going to change that. We are all members of society, whether we protest it or not. 

Well if ur gonna go at me specifically as an individual I don't exactly live in an area where being white is gonna give much of any significant advantages tbh

 

In terms of actual laws in Canada were all equal. The issue has more to do with racial bias people may learn. Like whites being wealthier and having more power, or cops being biased, or all the other interactions like a boss when looking who to hire etc

 

And in terms of racial bias... I live in a city with very very few white people. Brown (whether Indian, Pakistani, Iranian or Trinidadian) make up the overwhelming majority and blacks (mostly Jamaicans and Nigerians) another big portion. Whites are a minority here

 

So even if half of whites where I live were racist, there are too few of us to affect POC below us like that cuz yes even high positions like business owners, managers and even police are not white

 

I'm not arguing that white priveledge doesn't exist but throwing it at me, im probably in one of the cities in North America where I would experience the least amount of priveledge relative to others for simply being white

[spicedchy 184]

13 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

The only problem I have is that when it is suggested that it is my job as a white person to fix the rigged system is exactly that. I as a solitary person cant change a racist and rigged system. Ive tried twice now to vote for the person who would try to bring real justice to bare fruit but the majority of democrats continue to choose moderate democrats as the party nominee. The system doesn't just hate black and brown people. The system hates anyone not part of the oligarchy class. What my job as a white person would actually be to unite with black and brown folks to help change the rigged system. Its a shared responsibility & its not mine alone to bare. 

I mean as a collective whole. Of course not one person can undo a system, but as far as a racist one goes, unfortunately only the people who benefit from it can change it. Black people can get louder and hope they get fed up enough to consider it in spite of their racism. 
 

But yes, stand with black people, educate yourselves and others, make people aware of their unconscious bias, call out bigotry and complicity, put pressure on lawmakers, and be mindful of who you’re voting for on the municipal level and that they care enough to foster a safe environment that holds law enforcement to a higher standard. That’s reasonable. 
 

 

 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

2 minutes ago, Franz Ferdinand said:

Corrupt governments, in the plural. Anti-blackness is global. And I agree with you that the system is rigged and that this fight ain't new. I don't get your point, though.

I guess when I read your original post it read as if you were suggesting that blame rested on white people by default because they are beneficiaries to the system. I may have misinterpreted initially (let me know) 

 

4 minutes ago, Franz Ferdinand said:

Corrupt governments, in the plural. Anti-blackness is global.

Yes. Good catch because its not just a US issue but since I live in the US i was only speaking specifically from that POV.

[Bt1 5,213]

5 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

ok and what did Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden do for racial justice since you "cant" at me thinking Bernies policies that were also crafted by POC on his team as it relates to criminal justice? His plan was by and large lauded by POC I know and respect. All Biden says is "Im going to restore the soul of the nation" but has shown zero leadership in well over a month with regard to covid or whats happening right now. 

U see. U are asking the question in the wrong way.  

Why u asked what Hillary and Biden did while you applaud just a plan from Bernie? 

From what I remmember Bernie also voted for that criminal justice reform that did so much harm to the black community, even if later he said he regret it. 

Anyway, I dont want to have this discussion again and especially not on this thread. Hillary, Biden or Bernie arent the bad guys in this story, even if they maybe did too little for the black community.  

[Franz Ferdinand 2,359]

3 minutes ago, Economy said:

Well if ur gonna go at me specifically as an individual I don't exactly live in an area where being white is gonna give much of any significant advantages tbh

If you think numbers mean anything, let me remind you that there are dozens of countries around the world where white people are minorities and yet they overwhelmingly control wealth and have more political power than any other group (Brazil, South Africa, Peru, Mexico, etc.). I encourage you to think about it critically. If you live in a place where white people are the minority, then ask yourself if your police force follows those demographics too. Ask yourself where in your city do the Black and Brown people live, compared to where the white people are at. Ask yourself which schools do they go to, who has easier access to healthcare, and how many local businesses are Black- or Brown-owned.

12 minutes ago, Economy said:

So even if half of whites where I live were racist

  See here is already a big red flag. There is no if. All whites are racist. Racism is not necessarily a conscious act of hate. Racist biases are etched in all of our subconscious because, no exceptions, we are all in a racist world. Own that. Acknowledge and understand your privilege, train yourself to spot racism at work, and then work hard to change everything you have internalized and interrupt racism everywhere you see it.

This is a good (if US-centric) starting point: https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-about-race/topics/being-antiracist

It really seems like you are going to lengths to try to distance yourself from your own whiteness. Hopefully someday you start owning your privilege. Black folk (and all POC really) don't just need allies. They need accomplices. 

[Economy 53,068]

11 minutes ago, Franz Ferdinand said:

If you think numbers mean anything, let me remind you that there are dozens of countries around the world where white people are minorities and yet they overwhelmingly control wealth and have more political power than any other group (Brazil, South Africa, Peru, Mexico, etc.). I encourage you to think about it critically. If you live in a place where white people are the minority, then ask yourself if your police force follows those demographics too. Ask yourself where in your city do the Black and Brown people live, compared to where the white people are at. Ask yourself which schools do they go to, who has easier access to healthcare, and how many local businesses are Black- or Brown-owned.

  See here is already a big red flag. There is no if. All whites are racist. Racism is not necessarily a conscious act of hate. Racist biases are etched in all of our subconscious because, no exceptions, we are all in a racist world. Own that. Acknowledge and understand your privilege, train yourself to spot racism at work, and then work hard to change everything you have internalized and interrupt racism everywhere you see it.

This is a good (if US-centric) starting point: https://nmaahc.si.edu/learn/talking-about-race/topics/being-antiracist

It really seems like you are going to lengths to try to distance yourself from your own whiteness. Hopefully someday you start owning your privilege. Black folk (and all POC really) don't just need allies. They need accomplices. 

Shows how little u know about my area.  

 

I just told u most of our police officers and business owners are not even white. So positions of power are not held by whites to abuse. Obviously a few hold them but its a minority

 

Most of the whites that do exist in my city are mostly Portuguese and Italian who predominantly work in Construction. While they are solid paying jobs, they are not positions of power.

 

Healthcare is Universal so the clinics are open to everyone. It's true we have private segments of health care like dental and vision care for example but I have not seen any disproportion to demographics of who accesses them tho I don't know what the statistics are (if there are any on that)

 

And the slums of my city is mostly white and black. Very few of the Indians (the biggest demographic in our city) lives in the poor areas. Most of our doctors are Indian

 

I'm telling u, where I live this white privedge ur speaking about at the very least is much more subdued

 

U don't have to tell me to think critically. That's literally what I do in every topic I debate