Morphine Prince 96,178 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 WHO is calling Lana a wh0re? That is my question. I saw a video about how “fragile” was taken wrong because historically black women and other women of color have been seen as savages and sexually crazed and Lana saying she’s fragile could be seen as a codeword for “white, fragile” I just think Lana needs to stop and just leave all of this alone. She obviously doesn’t know how to communicate her thoughts effectively. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
weed 67,055 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 “I was so touched by the Navajo community” reminded me of this lmao Good luck to her sorting this all out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShayCristoforo 10,223 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 It's hard to engage with someone authentically when they put an obnoxious/distracting grayscale silent film filter lol Get the pinot ready, because it's turtle time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 i love her so much ugh lemme shovel this queso dip in my mouf though and NAWT go awf.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrawberryBlond 13,288 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 She made a great response and you could hear the hurt in her voice. I like the bit she said about being a good girl with good intentions and when you're good-hearted but it doesn't always get translated that way. I can relate so much to that. I hope after this that she just lets it go, though. It seems like she can't win and letting it calmly blow over is the best course of action now and she can't say she didn't try to set the record straight. What gets me concerned is that the negative response is partly the reason why so many women are afraid to speak out when something is troubling them or that they think is unfair. Women are told to keep their feelings to themselves so often and not to cause a fuss, don't make a scene, it's not ladylike, it's not dignified. Lana's clearly been having these feelings for a while and they've just bubbled to the surface and it must have been very heartbreaking for her to see that they got misconstrued. It's this kinda thing that makes a lot of women decide to never speak up again because it's not worth the fight. If you want to be a true ally to women, you have to let them speak their minds, their experiences and don't invalidate them. 9 hours ago, gag said: ...and somehow still finds a way to compare herself to another black woman? FKA twigs was destroyed in the media when she was dating Robert Pattinson, and faced similar racist and sexist scrutiny when she dated Shia LaBeouf. She doesn't have any idea what sort of backlash twigs has endured her entire career. Lana please just log off. Why does the fact it's a black woman mean she can't compare herself? She wasn't comparing herself racially but based on their similar art being interpreted differently. And twigs was hated on by Robert's fans, not the media. It was them she was referring to in Cellophane. I don't remember any racist media basically saying she shouldn't be dating white men. But even if that is the case, Lana wasn't talking about that. She's talking about being treated differently to these other women when it comes to artistic expression, that's all. 9 hours ago, Benji said: She's so bad at explaining her point. I sort of understood her original point. It is a shame that we don't value music that has tinges of sadness and abuse like Lana's the same as we value tracks that are sexual etc. This is all a part of the human experience and it's weird we celebrate and encourage hyper sexuality but also don't acknowledge the abuse and darker side of it. Her WAY of saying all of that though was so off. She did not need to single out women for her point and she turned a fair critique into something that sounded bitter and could be interpreted as quite racially charged. If she didn't give examples, she would have been demanded to give examples. Part of the reason why my posts tend to be so long is because if I don't say every little thing that I need to, you won't understand what I'm saying or need to see examples and it's easier than having long, drawn-out, back and forth discussions. She likely named specific women so no one would think she was just making vague generalisations that didn't actually exist. 9 hours ago, Queen Neyde said: i sort of get where she's coming from but still theres no point into doing what she's doing. firstly she compared herself with rappers. rap scene has always been full of sexual references, drug abuse and money. its just how things evolved! if you bring these stuff into the pop scene or other genres of music of course u'll face backlash, didnt madonna face it? didnt gaga? secondly she made those songs back in 2012 or so, the audience was not familiar with those types of songs. to have music she made ages ago being compared with "god is a woman" for example, is just stupid. ariana didnt release this song when she was in victorious she released it in 2018, of course she wouldnt face as much backlash as lana did (even though she still faced some) lastly, why is she comparing music about abuse and toxic relationships and sadness with songs with sexual content? cardi or nicki or doja's songs are making people feel confident, its uplifting listening to women talking about their bodies and their faces and how good they look. its definitely not the same with music that makes you feel bad, whats her poing? of course more people will relate to the first rather than the latter. PLUS she makes it seem as though beyonce, doja, cardi dont face criticism for their lyrics and their content which is not the case. she should really just drop it, she is making it worse each time. You make a lot of good points here, don't get me wrong. Naturally, the rap scene allows topics that aren't as prevalent in pop, so critics may look at it differently. Camila and Ariana definitely make very poppy music, though. I think sexual topics should be accepted in other genres, though, and I also think critics shouldn't view such topics differently depending on what genre it's from. I do amateur album reviews and I treat every artist and genre the same, if it's good music, it's good music, it shouldn't be viewed through a different lens according to what's acceptable in that genre. Lana is referring to her music where she made sexual references ("while I am standing over your body, hold you like a python and you can't keep your hands off me or your pants on," "my p***y tastes like Pepsi cola," "in the land of gods and monsters, I was an angel, looking to get f****d hard," "I f**ked my way up to the top, this is my show," "baby, if you wanna leave, come to California, be a freak like me too," etc). And she was confident in those songs, they were about her owning her sexuality, even though it was something used in a manipulative or dangerous way and wasn't ashamed of it. And she was criticised for this kinda thing, saying she shouldn't be so submissive and should be a better role model to her young fans and that she'd set feminism back years. 9 hours ago, Kid A said: This. I just stopped watching after she mentioned twigs. And that's the problem. If you stop listening as soon as you hear something you don't like, you'll never get the full picture of what someone's saying. Her point about twigs was perfect, actually. twigs dancing on a pole in Cellophane was called high art but when Lana danced on a pole in her Tropico music film, it wasn't seen in the same light. 7 hours ago, freebit said: I don't think she understands that you don't have to be burning crosses to perpetuate racism or racist views. She reminds me of many white liberals who are actually very centrist, and think they're more progressive than they are, and thus refuse to re-examine their ways of thinking. She wasn't being remotely racist, though, that's the point. If all people see when they look at a black woman is her race, they're the ones with the problem. I think black women are more than their race and their oppression. I can relate to them in many ways and I'm white. But for some reason, white people aren't allowed to relate to them, we're encouraged to separate ourselves, which I think is just as damaging as racist views. How can races and even humans get along if we can't talk and relate to one another and divide ourselves. And I'm a centre-leaning liberal and really don't like to be told that I don't re-examine my ways of thinking. I'm always striving for self-improvement. 7 hours ago, tifffany said: She says that it’s not about race yet in the same breath she compares herself yet AGAIN to a woman of color. Can she check her privilege. Honestly since I heard that petty jealous song she made about Gaga I haven’t looked at her the same But she was never talking about race and wasn't comparing herself racially, for the last time. So, a white woman can't ever compare herself to a black woman ever, for any reason? Um, sorry , no. Women go through lots of the same struggles regardless of our race, don't say we can't compare ourselves to other women. And Lana was angry when her manager left her to follow this up and coming artist called Lady Gaga who made music that was completely different to hers and seemed superficial and talentless at the time. Wouldn't you be angry in her situation? She wrote a bitter song at the time and it was never intended for public consumption. She's been pictured with Gaga since and gets along with her, probably because she now realises she's much more talented and musically diverse than she originally thought. People can change, you know. 6 hours ago, Ziggy said: heres the thing: her saying that women cannot express fragility in music is absolutely not true. She might mean in pop, sure, but RnB, country, etc. other genres show it all the time. Heck, Lucky by Britney Spears is pretty damn vulnerable and fragile and sad. I don’t actually think she’s fully aware of what her criticisms are. They aren’t about her so-called “fragility”, they’ve been about how people think she’s fake and it’s all a farce (something else to unpack entirely and warrants some feminist observation). The issue of her bringing up mostly POC isn’t that she mentioned them. So what? It’s that by specifically mentioning mostly POC and saying they’ve had successes she hasn’t, she is deliberately or inadvertently underplaying or denying their own struggles as POC. THAT is the problem. She isn’t reading her privilege here and seems oblivious to it even now. She really believes that she paved the way for all of these people which is just patently false and drastically overplays her impact on the industry and culture. For instance, Bey has been on the fragile, woman-stays-with-a-bad-dude-so-she-must-take-care-of-herself-and-find-inner-strength ish since DC. The point is that it doesn’t matter whether or not she sees it as about race when her statement directly underplays race as a component in the lives of women. She’s saying all womxn are the same and the struggle is universal. Everyone is saying, no, race is a *critical* component of a womxn’s identity and cannot be denied here. Lana isn’t Satan, she’s just tone deaf and makes it worse by not understanding why people are annoyed with her. It has to be an acceptable form of fragility, though. Being sexually submissive in a "choke me, daddy" kinda way is definitely not acceptable. And why can't pop involve this kinda stuff? Isn't she being groundbreaking by doing this? If people think she's fake, that's their problem. How about trying to get to know her and find out otherwise? It's typical that Lana is seen as a snob just because she isn't super outgoing and bubbly. She didn't bring up these women because they had success with these songs but because they were critically acclaimed for these songs. Admittedly, she should've made this distinction clearer as opposed to focusing on their chart placement. So many detractors say that she's just bitter that she's not getting #1's but no, she's bitter because she isn't getting the same critical acclaim these women did. Lana's always been about critics loving her music, it's not about the charts. And while women have been through all different experiences, we are the same in that we face a lot of the same expectations, dangers and realities. Fair enough if you want to bring the double whammy of racism into it too but women should also be uniting on what makes us the same rather than what makes us different. 4 hours ago, Morphine Prince said: WHO is calling Lana a wh0re? That is my question. I saw a video about how “fragile” was taken wrong because historically black women and other women of color have been seen as savages and sexually crazed and Lana saying she’s fragile could be seen as a codeword for “white, fragile” I just think Lana needs to stop and just leave all of this alone. She obviously doesn’t know how to communicate her thoughts effectively. I've seen her be cited as the kinda woman who got to where she was due to sleeping with executives and having connections, that she can't keep a man, that kinda thing. That bit about being white and fragile is absolutely ludicrous. It was clear she wasn't meaning it in a racial way, people are just doing mind-bending exercises to call out who they perceive as a racist white person. Some of us are actually real and authentic. We don't use codewords. If we don't say something explicitly, than we don't mean it all. When you're subtle, not everyone gets it. This tendency to believe that white people walk around talking in code is so insulting. But I want her to just let it alone as well. She understands, most of her fans who have been here from the beginning understand but the rest of the world is blinkered and blind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAPA911 169 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 I think she could benefit from not explaining things. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benji 20,113 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said: She really did not need to give examples that singled out BAME women, it makes her rant look racially charged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowHunter 866 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 I cannot agree MORE w her. Literally yall getting urself sick turning everything into an offence, making everything seem racist or sexist or whatever. Lana gets it. That’s why she is capable of making art ya’ll never be close to make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowHunter 866 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 @StrawberryBlond i see u, and in case u feel singled out or misunderstood, just letting u know publicly that I understand and actually agree with what you are saying. It is this sickness that has been brewing, that thing that people call identity politics, it is more than politics, it is identity morals, a newer and more perverse form of racism and sexism. Why perverse? Because it is a view that claims to reject racist positions yet insists on injecting race based division in almost everything that they see. It is a new way of dealing with racial obsession in a way that for some time gained traction, and became trendy and seemed progressive, but now has turned on itself and it is pervasive and evil. How can anyone be happy if we are always with a magnifying glass at hand and a dictionary of micro aggressions on the other? This is how we say you are black, you are brown, you are white, and mean, your experience is alienated from mine. We can discuss theory and phenomenology, and of course every experience is unique, and collective experiences are also a thing, but if we take that theory and apply it to practice, and see everyone as unbridgeable, we are obviously going to feel alienated, sad, alone, and like a person of a different race is suddenly this object of perverse worship. We over value empathy. What do I believe in? Which is the same thing I think that Lana believes in? That we should care more about the people we actually care about, that we stop being phony, that we speak our minds with intellectual honesty and leaving emotions to a side, that we speak without fear from all sides, that dialogue isn't censored, that we try to understand rather than shut down, that we stop saying that a "verbal aggression" (specially those that people say are in the subtext) which might or might have not actually been an aggression is equal to an actual physical aggression, etc etc.... wow this post was probably my longest in ggd history but seeing so many people turn against Lana feels phony and fake to me, like you want to see something, and it hurts, because it just shows how much you feel that pointing out racial difference is cookie points for ur karma, or that all X racial group is ALWAYS being oppressed or whatever. That **** is tiring and it is how racism continues to exist today. Yup, I just called all of yall calling Lana racist.... a racist.... how the turn tables turn Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebit 6,069 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 47 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said: She wasn't being remotely racist, though, that's the point. If all people see when they look at a black woman is her race, they're the ones with the problem. I think black women are more than their race and their oppression. I can relate to them in many ways and I'm white. But for some reason, white people aren't allowed to relate to them, we're encouraged to separate ourselves, which I think is just as damaging as racist views. How can races and even humans get along if we can't talk and relate to one another and divide ourselves. And I'm a centre-leaning liberal and really don't like to be told that I don't re-examine my ways of thinking. I'm always striving for self-improvement. That's like saying "if you think this is racist you're the one with the problem"...which is just ridiculous. I do not know you or your politics. I'm talking about the blissfully oblivious, fencesittting white liberals who tend to think they're far more progressive and introspective than they are (which is exactly how Lana is acting). These people don't tend to want to re-examine, or even entertain the thought that they might be perpetuating racist ideas. It's like they think they're just so smart that their brilliant minds simply cannot be affected by their environment and generations of flawed thinking. They think they are the exception. It's like instead of doubling down, why not ask oneself: why did I happen to bring up all WOC? (or those percieved to be WOC). Why imply these women are not delicate or fragile? Most are too afraid to even ask themselves these types of questions. These are the same people who likely think being accused of racism is the same or even worse than actual racism. Bob the Drag Queen puts it much better: “I think that the answer to maybe fixing racism is acknowledging racism. People saying ‘I'm not racist’ drives me crazy… All white people are racist… If you are white and you're raised in America, you are raised through TV, through books, through every single thing to have racial bias towards white people and against people of color.” Like he said, the first step is acknowledging racism, otherwise, how we ever going to grow and get better as a society if we don't do that first? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gagaplayer315 12,033 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 This woman is still making it worse and STILL name dropping other WOC. This is next level tone deaf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agunimon 20,259 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 this is still going on, huh? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skabi 3,064 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said: You make a lot of good points here, don't get me wrong. Naturally, the rap scene allows topics that aren't as prevalent in pop, so critics may look at it differently. Camila and Ariana definitely make very poppy music, though. I think sexual topics should be accepted in other genres, though, and I also think critics shouldn't view such topics differently depending on what genre it's from. I do amateur album reviews and I treat every artist and genre the same, if it's good music, it's good music, it shouldn't be viewed through a different lens according to what's acceptable in that genre. Lana is referring to her music where she made sexual references ("while I am standing over your body, hold you like a python and you can't keep your hands off me or your pants on," "my p***y tastes like Pepsi cola," "in the land of gods and monsters, I was an angel, looking to get f****d hard," "I f**ked my way up to the top, this is my show," "baby, if you wanna leave, come to California, be a freak like me too," etc). And she was confident in those songs, they were about her owning her sexuality, even though it was something used in a manipulative or dangerous way and wasn't ashamed of it. And she was criticised for this kinda thing, saying she shouldn't be so submissive and should be a better role model to her young fans and that she'd set feminism back years. i agree that sexual content and songs about women being sexual beings should be allowed in every music genre, my point is, if you want to be part of the revolution you have to expect the arrows as well. when madonna released erotica the world criticized her roughly, when gaga released many of her music videos people hated them because she was satanic or whatever. sometimes you just have to accept that if you step out of the box people will "hate" it at first because they're not used to it. this is why im saying that i find what she's saying pointless. you cant expect to take a risk and it having 0 backlash. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewYorkCity 10,462 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 I seriously don’t get where the controversy came from the first post. Her point was pretty clear and it wasn’t offensive, people just started the cancel culture movement and decided to go by race card when it has zero correlation to anything she said. but everything she’s doing now is just fueling them, she should have ignored everything and that’s it, but every time she responds she’s just making it worse and giving voice to twitter trolls. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaublue 3,868 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 12 hours ago, Faysalaaa said: I dont like Lana or her music, but she did not say anything problematic or racist. What she said was clear and people turned it into a cancel party and making it about race. Not because they actually care about racism, but because they want to use racism for entertainment of cancelling someone. Even if she said something stupid, she doesnt deserve this reaction. I love Lana & her music but I also agree with what she’s saying & it’s not because I’m a fan of hers, it’s because I understand what she’s saying. She said it as plainly as possible, I don’t get how people still don’t understand what she’s saying. Not to mention, after expressing how hurt she felt with how everyone treated her when she finally chose to speak her mind & everyone is STILL coming for her saying “leave it alone.” So when she responds to hate it’s old news & she should just sit quietly & take it? I’m glad I found one person who understands her point besides me though, gives me some semblance of hope 😂 & yeah, people making it about race? I’m over it. She used them as examples because she’s friends with most of them. Like the amount of projection going on in our generation is clinical. She’s right, the culture is sick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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