Trudeau Accused of "Shifting Goalposts" For Reopening

[Diamond heart99 5,262]

Hey @Economy - I’m so glad you decided to stay!!

[MorganMak 158]

1 hour ago, FATCAT said:

"Leader of country tries to protect vulnerable from deadly illness, greedy businessmen & selfish people throw a tantrum"

How could you misunderstand the story so badly

Do you really not see how politicians all over the world have been actually shifting the goalposts to the point that even saying we want things to return to normal is not allowed anymore because they are so intent on convincing us that things will never been normal again? 

[derpmonster 22,412]

2 hours ago, Diamond heart99 said:

This exactly what Newsom and Garcetti are doing in CA and Los Angeles.

I want my votes back and am probably a republican now. 

I have to say Newsom has done a good job overall. CA could've ended up MUCH worse. You know that they're slowly reopening things up and in a few days restaurants will even have limited dine in. A slow phased rollout is important so there isn't a spike.

Don't fall into the trap of Republicans just because this is a difficult situation. Better safe than sorry. 

[Diamond heart99 5,262]

@OG Gaga Stan is a real hero for coming in here and marking all the posts sad that they don’t agree with.

 

[blankpaper 21]

2 minutes ago, Diamond heart99 said:

@OG Gaga Stan is a real hero for coming in here and marking all the posts sad that they don’t agree with.

 

I seethe every time it happens haha 

[Maleficent 6]

7 minutes ago, Diamond heart99 said:

@OG Gaga Stan is a real hero for coming in here and marking all the posts sad that they don’t agree with.

 

close minded ppl do close minded things 

[Maleficent 6]

20 minutes ago, MorganMak said:

Do you really not see how politicians all over the world have been actually shifting the goalposts to the point that even saying we want things to return to normal is not allowed anymore because they are so intent on convincing us that things will never been normal again? 

in their defence, that’s more the media’s fault than the politicians. form what i’ve seen, global leaders are saying “we won’t return to normal until we have a herd immunity, a vaccine, or an anti-viral” but the media headlines lead “world leaders say we won’t ever return to normal”

[Diamond heart99 5,262]

20 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

I have to say Newsom has done a good job overall. CA could've ended up MUCH worse. You know that they're slowly reopening things up and in a few days restaurants will even have limited dine in. A slow phased rollout is important so there isn't a spike.

Don't fall into the trap of Republicans just because this is a difficult situation. Better safe than sorry. 

That’s not what his plan said when he laid out the four phases.  

He will not lift the stay at home order until there is a vaccine or a cure - which is moving the goal posts (like Trudeau is accused of) and none of us can do anything about it. 

He had no straight answer as to why curbside pickup for some businesses was shut down but allowed for others all along - he all but said it was just to have a guideline 🙄

We aren’t better safe than sorry - because unemployment in California is approaching 25% - that’s not safe - just sorry. 

I wasn’t against shutting down at all - but the mentality that we can’t go back to normal until a vaccine is crazy AF and was NEVER the deal. 

California is also doing enough diagnostic testing that we should be able to handle this correct way (i.e. isolating the infecting not the healthy) should there be a second wave (which again is a theory that some people seem to think is scientific law when we don’t know there will be one)

Also the way they are opening things up makes zero sense. Let’s send everyone back to work in closed up spaces so we can pick up sh!t we don’t need from Bed Bath and Beyond - but no putting a towel down and sitting on the beach!! That’s dangerous and will kill grandma 🙄

Also the culture war is dangerous, again - it will lead to Trump’s re-election. Last week everyone was sh!tting on Texas, Georgia and Florida - yet this weekend in NYC bars and restaurants are doing take out and everyone is gathering in groups outside - certainly not distancing. So it’s okay when a blue state does it?  

All that time say there was a time when I believed Newsom did a good job. But he needs a new plan and one that moves faster is not only based on the science that democrats like. 

[derpmonster 22,412]

1 minute ago, Diamond heart99 said:

That’s not what his plan said when he laid out the four phases.  

He will not lift the stay at home order until there is a vaccine or a cure - which is moving the goal posts (like Trudeau is accused of) and none of us can do anything about it. 

He had no straight answer as to why curbside pickup for some businesses was shut down but allowed for others all along - he all but said it was just to have a guideline 🙄

We aren’t better safe than sorry - because unemployment in California is approaching 25% - that’s not safe - just sorry. 

I wasn’t against shutting down at all - but the mentality that we can’t go back to normal until a vaccine is crazy AF and was NEVER the deal. 

California is also doing enough diagnostic testing that we should be able to handle this correct way (i.e. isolating the infecting now the healthy) should there be a second wave (which again is a theory that some people seem to think is scientific law when we don’t know there will be one)

Also the way they are opening things up makes zero sense. Let’s send everyone back to work in closed up spaces so we can pick up sh!t we don’t need from Bed Bath and Beyond - but no putting a towel down and siting on the beach!! That’s dangerous and will kill grandma 🙄

Also the culture war is dangerous as again - it will lead to Trump’s re-election. Last week everyone was sh!tting on Texas, Georgia and Florida - yet this weekend in NYC bars and restaurants are doing take out and everyone is gathering in groups outside - certainly not distancing. So it’s okay when a blue state does it?  

I do not agree with waiting for a vaccine. That's unrealistic. I'm not sure where you read the stuff but the ones I read most recently said they were going to open things back over the next 3 months. Beaches in LA County already opened last Wednesday. And I'm sorry I just don't understand the craze about beaches. I live in LA but the fact that people *have to* go to beaches... what even.

But I understand your concern and agree with it partly. But the thing is the businesses that are open are not crowded at least here in California. They're made to enforce social distancing and they are doing that. The general public is seeming to care less and less as time goes on which is understandable.

It's not red state vs blue state for me. The culture war and politicization is toxic. But I am in favor of tiered gradual reopening rather than all at once like some states are doing. It's dangerous and encourages dangerous behaviors from people who are saying it's all a hoax.

[March34th 1,973]

2 hours ago, Maleficent said:

Canada? 

there's a ton of anti-vax people in my area, it's annoying. also there were talks of protests in St. Thomas and other smaller cities in Ontario but I don't think any of them went through.

1 hour ago, FATCAT said:

Canada has a robust safety net system, including paying wages right now.

If you made less than $5000 gross last year then you don't qualify for anything. People who struggled with employment last year are now in a worrying situation if they can't obtain money from the government during this. I'm one of these people and am surviving off of the bare minimum until I can find work (lost my job at the beginning of this pandemic because my workplace was cutting the amount of staff and fired literally everyone who was hired in the past 6 months).

Wage subsidy is not as amazing as it sounds - it basically just helps those who can't work temporarily or those who are in better financial situations - things need to start reopening soon and more job opportunities need to return or else the poor or people in tough situations will begin to literally starve

[Economy 52,842]

1 minute ago, March34th said:

there's a ton of anti-vax people in my area, it's annoying. also there were talks of protests in St. Thomas and other smaller cities in Ontario but I don't think any of them went through.

If you made less than $5000 gross last year then you don't qualify for anything. People who struggled with employment last year are now in a worrying situation if they can't obtain money from the government during this. I'm one of these people and am surviving off of the bare minimum until I can find work (lost my job at the beginning of this pandemic because my workplace was cutting the amount of staff and fired literally everyone who was hired in the past 6 months).

Wage subsidy is not as amazing as it sounds - it basically just helps those who can't work temporarily or those who are in better financial situations - things need to start reopening soon and more job opportunities need to return or else the poor or people in tough situations will begin to literally starve

I also lost my job right before pandemic and I had to apply like crazy to find anything. I was jobless for 3 months but fortunately I eventually found something (and pays good too) and I started last week

 

I know many here hate the opinion but I genuinely think taking the length of shutdowns to an unnecessary extra length of time is just starting to do more harm than good

 

Again were running 20 years worth of Deficits In a single year to keep the economy barely surviving.

 

You have to at some point start to weight the costs vs the benefits and as things stabalize I don't think the benefits of further extending a near total shutdown is worth it

 

Fortunately some Provinces are reopening their economies slowly now as the healthcare system is no longer overwhelmed like it was during the spike

[Diamond heart99 5,262]

11 minutes ago, derpmonster said:

I do not agree with waiting for a vaccine. That's unrealistic. I'm not sure where you read the stuff but the ones I read most recently said they were going to open things back over the next 3 months. Beaches in LA County already opened last Wednesday. And I'm sorry I just don't understand the craze about beaches. I live in LA but the fact that people *have to* go to beaches... what even.

But I understand your concern and agree with it partly. But the thing is the businesses that are open are not crowded at least here in California. They're made to enforce social distancing and they are doing that. The general public is seeming to care less and less as time goes on which is understandable.

It's not red state vs blue state for me. The culture war and politicization is toxic. But I am in favor of tiered gradual reopening rather than all at once like some states are doing. It's dangerous and encourages dangerous behaviors from people who are saying it's all a hoax.

Here is what mostly has me up in arms. Look at Phase Four - it days End the Stay at Home Order. Why at that point do we still need the order? Technically the order should have been lifted in Phase 2 if these words even mean anything. He also said we were MONTHS away from Phase 3. That is not economically possibly and not needed based on the science he claims to follow. 

The beaches are open but you can’t sit and sun bathe or have lunch. You need to be walking or swimming.  I don’t personally care for me (I have my own backyard pool) but it’s crazy to me that we are so worried the virus will spread out doors on the damn beach but not in the stock room of a store amongst workers. 

Thank you for having a real discussion about this and not accusing me of corporate greed ❤️
 

[Maleficent 6]

2 minutes ago, Diamond heart99 said:

Here is what mostly has me up in arms. Look at Phase Four - it days End the Stay at Home Order. Why at that point do we still need the order? Technically the order should have been lifted in Phase 2 if these words even mean anything. He also said we were MONTHS away from Phase 3. That is not economically possibly and not needed based on the science he claims to follow. 

The beaches are open but you can’t sit and sun bathe or have lunch. You need to be walking or swimming.  I don’t personally care for me (I have my own backyard pool) but it’s crazy to me that we are so worried the virus will spread out doors on the damn beach but not in the stock room of a store amongst workers. 

Thank you for having a real discussion about this and not accusing me of corporate greed ❤️
 

i think perhaps it’s victim to poor wording?

perhaps they refer to all 4 stages as a “stay-at-home-order”? 

[Diamond heart99 5,262]

2 minutes ago, Maleficent said:

i think perhaps it’s victim to poor wording?

perhaps they refer to all 4 stages as a “stay-at-home-order”? 

But that is a huge problem. Legal language matters - especially in something as serious as this and the Stay at Home order is a legal mandate. 
 

[Maleficent 6]

1 hour ago, Diamond heart99 said:

But that is a huge problem. Legal language matters - especially in something as serious as this and the Stay at Home order is a legal mandate. 
 

that’s part of the problem exactly!

theyre selling social distancing as if it’s a brand or a movement and forgetting that it’s a piece of legislation with severe economic repercussions