Joaquin Phoenix Rescues Mother Cow and Newborn Calf Day after Academy Award

[gag 22,449]

2 hours ago, ltlmnstr said:

I’m all for animal welfare but I’m not letting my culture die. I do find it creepy that veganism has started to become a modern day colonialism.

Oh hey you're Viet right? Sorry if I am confusing you with someone else  but from my experience working with a vegetarian restaurant in Saigon, eradicating meat in Viet food is probably one of the easiest transitions considering how replaceable most meats and seafood can be with tofu and beans. I'd even argue it's more culturally in line with Buddhist ideals.

I agree in developed nations there IS a very white, privileged and elitist core to some vegan movements but that's a small vocal minority. Also I am not vegan (but am trying to reduce meat consumption). 

I think this video addresses it very well (TL;DW: cultures can change and the harmful aspects of said cultures should be expected to slowly be left behind as much as possible / able).

 

[ltlmnstr 2,771]

1 minute ago, gag said:

Oh hey you're Viet right?

I’m not just Viet but thanks for remembering

You bring up tofu, which I love, but western vegans are already starting to produce anti-soy studies 

Everything I brought up in this thread was not from a place of malice but from personal experiences with many PoC friends and family on why they felt that would not go plant based.
And the people advertising Veganism was one I always heard on why they wouldn’t try it. That they are pushy, mean, and ignorant to other ways of life while claiming diversity.

I do enjoy plant based products. Kite Hill makes excellent plant based yogurt. And that’s where I think animal welfare vs animal rights will be the big issue going forward in the future. Contrary to many, there’s a difference between the two.

[uo111 5,251]

3 hours ago, xoxo Craig said:

http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar_url?url=https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/0f1b/c501ed2529a8cf53a1bf84796dfc8f5092d0.pdf&hl=en&sa=X&scisig=AAGBfm26fu7GkEjG4-wJ-SqgmI4l1biREA&nossl=1&oi=scholarr

https://www.fcrn.org.uk/forums/general-discussion-38

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_sink

 

If you leave the cows alone, the population of cows will obviously significantly increase. If you are using pastures for farming your veg and grains, spraying all those pesticides will damage the soild and because we have an overpopulation of cows, the grass cant grow back because its what the cows eat. No grass = no carbon sink... which means more carbon in the atmosphere thats not getting absorbed by the grass.  

Natural farming helps keep pastures fertile, and keeps carbon low

You have to take into consideration so much more than you are. Like, what percentage of carbon is stored in which carbon sink (forests sequester more than 15 times as much as soil), and does animal agriculture increase or decrease the amount of carbon stored in grasslands (it decreases it), and can all the cows needed to meet current demand live off pastures (no, they can't) and what will happen to cows as more and more people become vegetarian/vegan (they will be killed, not released into the wild).

 

You are reaching the wrong conclusions. I have to assume you are just unable to comprehend that, because otherwise your intent would be malicious.

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 minute ago, uo111 said:

You have to take into consideration so much more than you are. Like, what percentage of carbon is stored in which carbon sink (forests sequester more than 15 times as much as soil), and does animal agriculture increase or decrease the amount of carbon stored in grasslands (it decreases it), and can all the cows needed to meet current demand live off pastures (no, they can't) and what will happen to cows as more and more people become vegetarian/vegan (they will be killed, not released into the wild).

 

You are reaching the wrong conclusions. I have to assume you are just unable to comprehend that, because otherwise your intent would be malicious.

Natural regenerative agricultural farming has ALREADY shown to rejuvenate the ecosystems. Removing them and planting trees will not take in the same amount of carbon as grass pastures do. I'm not reaching, thats just facts. Farming naturally increases the amount of carbon in the ground - especially if you farm how we used to (cows on a field eat grass, grass gone, cows poo on that field, move the cows to another field and allow that field to regrow). 

Cows can meet the demand of pastures, ESPECIALLY if you do regenerative farming because you don't need to make room for more fields if you can make use of the land you have.

Who will kill the cows if no one is eating them? Exactly, no one. The population of cows would significantly increase. Exponentially increase. Untill they develop some sort of disease that wipes out entire population of cows... i.e By not eating the cows, you could risk them being wiped out completely and become extinct 

[uo111 5,251]

3 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

Natural regenerative agricultural farming has ALREADY shown to rejuvenate the ecosystems. Removing them and planting trees will not take in the same amount of carbon as grass pastures do. I'm not reaching, thats just facts. Farming naturally increases the amount of carbon in the ground - especially if you farm how we used to (cows on a field eat grass, grass gone, cows poo on that field, move the cows to another field and allow that field to regrow). 

Cows can meet the demand of pastures, ESPECIALLY if you do regenerative farming because you don't need to make room for more fields if you can make use of the land you have.

Who will kill the cows if no one is eating them? Exactly, no one. The population of cows would significantly increase. Exponentially increase. Untill they develop some sort of disease that wipes out entire population of cows... i.e By not eating the cows, you could risk them being wiped out completely and become extinct 

I.... Whatever you say.

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

Just now, uo111 said:

I.... Whatever you say.

Its logic

[Scathach 6,674]

Not the same user showing his stupidity on the subject once again 

[StrawberryBlond 14,685]

At least he's doing this outside of his acting realm. Putting it into award speeches is just irrelevant and cringey. And at least he's practicising what he preaches. Unlike many celebrities I could name who preach about climate change but use private jets like they're going out of fashion.

6 hours ago, Glamourpuss said:

You didn't teach me anything new. You parrot the same things that many people do who want to defend why it's ok to eat meat. Just because we used to hunt with a spear doesn't mean it's ok to continue to kill animals. 

We are evolved beings and we have the ability to understand that other living beings are sentient. For most people who choose veganism it's about respecting all life and not putting yours above another. 

Did you know that cows pine for their calves when they are taken away. They want their babies back. But they wey? It's very sad and very cruel that we put these creatures through such emotional pain.

In tre only made to get pregnant so they would produce milk for humans. Have you ever seen a cow cry for her babhis modern world we don't need to eat meat to survive and most people don't hunt for their meat. They buy it perfectly packaged and don't have to face the horror of the slaughter. Do you think they'd still eat it if they had to do that? We know they wouldn't. 

There are many valid reasons why someone has to eat animal products (not just meat specifically). Food allergies and intolerences are a major one. It seems to be that many people who pursue veganism don't have this issue, so they don't think anyone else does either. It must be nice to live a life where umpteen healthy foods don't bloat you out and ensure you can't leave the toilet. What's funny is that so many vegans say any digestive issues you have will be cured by veganism and then it's later discovered that the vegan diet gave you digestive problems you didn't have before. Also, some forms of medication aren't vegan. I once saw two vegans online deal with a problem involving a vegan girl who was on anti depressants and was shocked to discover that they contained a basis of cow's milk. She asked her doctor if there was a vegan alternative because she couldn't take them and he told her that there were no alternatives, to keep taking the pills and told her that if she refused, he'd have to report her to a mental health facility for her failure to use prescribed medication that regulates her mental state. These two vegans told her to defy her doctor's orders and seek out a plant based doctor (yeah, because of there's one of them on every street corner) who could present her with alternatives. This is the dangers with veganism - they think they know best in every situation and will gladly put an animal over a human's mental state.

And about the milk - we need that for our babies. Not every female can produce breast milk. And I don't trust these new vegan based milk formulas, I still fear that the baby isn't getting the right nutrients as it's fake milk. Animal's milk is a necessity, I hate when vegans try to make it sound like such a frivolous addition to our lives.

We only think killing an animal is so horrific because we've been taught to believe it is. I was watching a documentary about farming and a couple who raise all their 9 children to work on their farm, right from when they are toddlers. These children were not the least bit squeamish about anything and had to deal with the death of animals as well without getting too overwhelmed like children who hadn't been raised in this environment would be. Seeing this makes them realise that death is a part of life and isn't something world-ending. This will undoubtedly help them to be stronger mentally later in life. Empathy doesn't even kick in until age 4. Children are not born squeamish, they are taught to be. I'm not suggesting that we make our children into emotionless killing machines, just that we don't encourage unnecessary involvement in the death of animals that aren't even our species. You see, vegans expect humans to do things that nature never asked of other species - most notably, to care about other species. Animals look out for their own, they don't truly care about us. Even if they befriend us, they do move on. And if they got hungry enough, they would eat us and wouldn't care. Yet, we're told to care for animals when they wouldn't dream of caring for us. I notice how not one vegan has complained about the awful conditions workers are in to farm their vegan foods (check out the cashew nut industry, it's a shocker) yet if an animal was made to the same things, they'd be outraged. Veganism may claim it's about respecting everyone and not being "specieist" but what it's really about is putting animals over humans.

5 hours ago, Logan said:

I've been vegan going on 4 years. So don't try to tell me that in this modern world we can't live on just plant based foods It's not realistic. Convenient for your personal agenda, yes. But not realistic.

People with allergies and intolerances will tell you. People who aged 10+ years within a year of eating vegan will tell you. Vegans who ate their first animal products in years and felt instantly better will tell you. Women who have lost their period on vegan diets (and then have it return when eating animal products) will tell you. The families of deceased vegans will tell you. Not trying to say that veganism will kill everyone but so many people have become ill on this diet that I'm starting to think the ones who don't get ill are the exception, not the rule. Brianna Jackson, a huge face of the online vegan community, announced at the start of the year that she was no longer vegan and her video covers every major point of why you should stop being vegan if any of this happens to you:

If it works for you, fine. But if your body is telling you otherwise, listen to it. The way vegans talk, they act as if everyone's body is the same. But the reality is that no two bodies are the same and there's no magic cure-all, one-size-fits-all perfect system that works for everyone.

 

*Please note, if anyone replies anytime in the next few hours, I may not be able to get back until Monday afternoon, just in case you think I'm ignoring you.

[Glamourpuss 29,062]

1 hour ago, xoxo Craig said:

Who will kill the cows if no one is eating them? Exactly, no one. The population of cows would significantly increase. Exponentially increase. Untill they develop some sort of disease that wipes out entire population of cows... i.e By not eating the cows, you could risk them being wiped out completely and become extinct 

Imagine there's 50 cows in a field now that don't get sent to a slaughterhouse. Is that cow population really going to grow and get out of control? As soon as it dies out there wouldn't be any more cows. They wouldn't be breeding because the bulls would still probably be kept in a different pasture.

 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

2 minutes ago, Glamourpuss said:

Imagine there's 50 cows in a field now that don't get sent to a slaughterhouse. Is that cow population really going to grow and get out of control? As soon as it dies out there wouldn't be any more cows. They wouldn't be breeding because the bulls would still probably be kept in a different pasture.

 

So your idea is that you don't allow the cows to breed and therefore wipe out the entire cow population? I thought you wanted to protect the cows cause they are your friends?

[Glamourpuss 29,062]

22 minutes ago, xoxo Craig said:

So your idea is that you don't allow the cows to breed and therefore wipe out the entire cow population? I thought you wanted to protect the cows cause they are your friends?

Imagine all cows stopped being sent to slaughterhouses. What do we do, do we keep them in situ until they live out their lives and die or do we give them land to graze on? I assume the first would probably happen. 

If the second happened, I think about the fact there aren't any wild cows, at least in the UK, and that these cows would go from being domesticated to being free to roam. I imagine they couldn't live just anywhere and would be given designated areas like a national park or something. I imagine that the population would still have to be controlled in the same way that other animal populations have to be monitored and controlled. 

At least millions of cows wouldn't be brought into the world just to be slaughtered. 

I don't know what would happen but I don't think we would be that stupid to let them breed out of control until we are overrun with cows. 

[uo111 5,251]

14 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

At least he's doing this outside of his acting realm. Putting it into award speeches is just irrelevant and cringey. And at least he's practicising what he preaches. Unlike many celebrities I could name who preach about climate change but use private jets like they're going out of fashion.

There are many valid reasons why someone has to eat animal products (not just meat specifically). Food allergies and intolerences are a major one. It seems to be that many people who pursue veganism don't have this issue, so they don't think anyone else does either. It must be nice to live a life where umpteen healthy foods don't bloat you out and ensure you can't leave the toilet. What's funny is that so many vegans say any digestive issues you have will be cured by veganism and then it's later discovered that the vegan diet gave you digestive problems you didn't have before. Also, some forms of medication aren't vegan. I once saw two vegans online deal with a problem involving a vegan girl who was on anti depressants and was shocked to discover that they contained a basis of cow's milk. She asked her doctor if there was a vegan alternative because she couldn't take them and he told her that there were no alternatives, to keep taking the pills and told her that if she refused, he'd have to report her to a mental health facility for her failure to use prescribed medication that regulates her mental state. These two vegans told her to defy her doctor's orders and seek out a plant based doctor (yeah, because of there's one of them on every street corner) who could present her with alternatives. This is the dangers with veganism - they think they know best in every situation and will gladly put an animal over a human's mental state.

And about the milk - we need that for our babies. Not every female can produce breast milk. And I don't trust these new vegan based milk formulas, I still fear that the baby isn't getting the right nutrients as it's fake milk. Animal's milk is a necessity, I hate when vegans try to make it sound like such a frivolous addition to our lives.

We only think killing an animal is so horrific because we've been taught to believe it is. I was watching a documentary about farming and a couple who raise all their 9 children to work on their farm, right from when they are toddlers. These children were not the least bit squeamish about anything and had to deal with the death of animals as well without getting too overwhelmed like children who hadn't been raised in this environment would be. Seeing this makes them realise that death is a part of life and isn't something world-ending. This will undoubtedly help them to be stronger mentally later in life. Empathy doesn't even kick in until age 4. Children are not born squeamish, they are taught to be. I'm not suggesting that we make our children into emotionless killing machines, just that we don't encourage unnecessary involvement in the death of animals that aren't even our species. You see, vegans expect humans to do things that nature never asked of other species - most notably, to care about other species. Animals look out for their own, they don't truly care about us. Even if they befriend us, they do move on. And if they got hungry enough, they would eat us and wouldn't care. Yet, we're told to care for animals when they wouldn't dream of caring for us. I notice how not one vegan has complained about the awful conditions workers are in to farm their vegan foods (check out the cashew nut industry, it's a shocker) yet if an animal was made to the same things, they'd be outraged. Veganism may claim it's about respecting everyone and not being "specieist" but what it's really about is putting animals over humans.

People with allergies and intolerances will tell you. People who aged 10+ years within a year of eating vegan will tell you. Vegans who ate their first animal products in years and felt instantly better will tell you. Women who have lost their period on vegan diets (and then have it return when eating animal products) will tell you. The families of deceased vegans will tell you. Not trying to say that veganism will kill everyone but so many people have become ill on this diet that I'm starting to think the ones who don't get ill are the exception, not the rule. Brianna Jackson, a huge face of the online vegan community, announced at the start of the year that she was no longer vegan and her video covers every major point of why you should stop being vegan if any of this happens to you:

If it works for you, fine. But if your body is telling you otherwise, listen to it. The way vegans talk, they act as if everyone's body is the same. But the reality is that no two bodies are the same and there's no magic cure-all, one-size-fits-all perfect system that works for everyone.

 

*Please note, if anyone replies anytime in the next few hours, I may not be able to get back until Monday afternoon, just in case you think I'm ignoring you.

Constipation on a vegan diet is a HUGE red flag. The entire premise is ludicrous. She was constipated and meat, dairy and eggs cured her? That’s quite literally not how the human body works. You can say all you want that “everybody is unique,” but that’s not just unique, it’s impossible. 

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

1 minute ago, Glamourpuss said:

Imagine all cows stopped being sent to slaughterhouses. What do we do, do we keep them in situ until they live out their lives and die or do we give them land to graze on? I assume the first would probably happen. 

If the second happened, I think about the fact there aren't any wild cows, at least in the UK, and that these cows would go from being domesticated to being free to roam. I imagine they couldn't live just anywhere and would be given designated areas like a national park or something. I imagine that the population would still have to be controlled in the same way that other animal populations have to be monitored and controlled. 

At least millions of cows wouldn't be brought into the world just to be slaughtered. 

I don't know what would happen but I don't think we would be that stupid to let them breed out of control until we are overrun with cows. 

So the answer is that you "control" the population of cows by killing them. 

The farm I go to has the cows grazing on pastures and they are free to roam on the fields. I go directly to the farm so I can see how they treat the animals. But if you were to release all the cows we have into the wild, you couldn't just stick them in a national park. National parks are protected, so the only place for them would be forest areas. 

In both scenarios, you are still gonna have the same "issue". Dead cows. If you allow the cows to do whatever they want with nothing hunting them, they will be overpopulated. You would then have to control the population by killing off some of the cattle. If you just left them, they will die anyways. So what's wrong with just eating them? They are gonna die eventually, cow meat is part of our diet, you are controlling their population by killing them/eating them... there is no issue here at all. Cows won't get over populated and risk becoming extinct. Its a win for everyone

As I said, if we get rid of factory farming and move back towards a more regenerative natural agricultural way of farming, it would be much better for the animals and much better for us

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

2 minutes ago, uo111 said:

Constipation on a vegan diet is a HUGE red flag. The entire premise is ludicrous. She was constipated and meat, dairy and eggs cured her? That’s quite literally not how the human body works. You can say all you want that “everybody is unique,” but that’s not just unique, it’s impossible. 

Literally the body works exactly the opposite 

[Regina George 59,387]

You're vegan? Amazing! Love it! Good for you! But please don't degrade me or call me killer because I chose to eat meat.