Gypsy 3,826 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Dressed bare minimum. Performance bare minimum. Vocals bare minimum. His a colossal travesty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Bitch 10,513 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 3 hours ago, messybottom said: it’s so.. bare. men just keep giving the bare minimum while getting praised for it. Our poor pop girls are held to such high standards Maybe because the pop girl fans set up such high standards for them and fans of the male pop stars don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolkins 4,125 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 I finally got Bieber fever, it took me 9 years but it got me in the end. I’ve been really into his new era, I just feel like he’s coming off so genuine and despite the music not being ground breaking or anything it’s a step in a slightly more authentic sound which is a good thing. If nothing else its been a nice distraction waiting for old Mz what’sherchops to get it together tbh. Not the bore worms! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NFRatwell 23,290 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 4 hours ago, messybottom said: it’s so.. bare. men just keep giving the bare minimum while getting praised for it. Our poor pop girls are held to such high standards Because many gays are sexist and expect so much from female artists. Let’s not pretend straight people don’t want female artists (and male artists) to just sit there, show some cleavage, and look pretty. That’s why Joanne era was loved by the GP and dragged by stans. I’m ready for someone to make a thread exposing stan culture and the sexism in the communitea. It’s time for some people on here to be reminded they’re the problem sometimes too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Bradley said: At this point you're judging Gaga by her history and not the show and only the show itself To be completely honest, if Gaga was a nobody and she put on that show, 99% of this forum would've trashed it to bits. Exactly because we're used to better quality from female pop stars in general So your argument doesn't really work. In my honest opinion, it's only because it's Lady Gaga putting on Enigma that so many LMs force themselves to unsee the flaws. If I judged the show by itself without reference to Gaga's career I would probably be even harsher than I am right now. 2 hours ago, Bradley said: You however, choose to judge a performance based on what has been done by that performer in the past. In that case, the bar goes higher and higher and higher and higher I don't agree with that because, like I said, Gaga set a certain standard in 2008 already, when she had no performance budget and only two back-up dancers. So how is it possible she managed to deliver all-round better performances back then? My bar is not being set higher and higher and higher and higher. It's where the bar has always been. Where Gaga set it herself. At the start of her career. It's not unfair to expect an artist to at least keep hitting that bar. It's also not unfair to expect an artist developing to raise the bar for themselves, like Beyoncé and Madonna have done. Gaga, however, has not only plateaud with the quality of her concert tours, she has degenerated. For her it seems the bar is only getting lower and lower and lower and lower. And I'm not gonna applaud that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
REALITY 77,390 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 I'm sorry, but I do not understand how anyone could legitimately think that performance was good (I'm talking about Yummy specifically). First of all, Yummy just does not work as an acoustic song; it just doesn't. If you want to turn an upbeat, up-tempo song into an acoustic version, it better have some meaningful and interesting lyrics. Hearing him say "yummy" like 20 billion times in a row while also trying to be serious does nothing besides make it look like a joke. The performance itself also looked very uninspiring. I mean, dancing in front of a green, blank room? This seems like a performance they literally put together 30 minutes before the show started.... 𝔗𝔥𝔢 𝔪𝔲𝔰𝔦𝔠'𝔰 𝔤𝔬𝔫𝔫𝔞 𝔟𝔯𝔦𝔫𝔤 𝔪𝔢 𝔟𝔞𝔠𝔨 𝔣𝔯𝔬𝔪 𝔡𝔢𝔞𝔱𝔥 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley 59,243 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Didymus said: To be completely honest, if Gaga was a nobody and she put on that show, 99% of this forum would've trashed it to bits. Exactly because we're used to better quality from female pop stars in general So your argument doesn't really work. In my honest opinion, it's only because it's Lady Gaga putting on Enigma that so many LMs force themselves to unsee the flaws. If I judged the show by itself without reference to Gaga's career I would probably be even harsher than I am right now. I don't agree with that because, like I said, Gaga set a certain standard in 2008 already, when she had no performance budget and only two back-up dancers. So how is it possible she managed to deliver all-round better performances back then? My bar is not being set higher and higher and higher and higher. It's where the bar has always been. Where Gaga set it herself. At the start of her career. It's not unfair to expect an artist to at least keep hitting that bar. It's also not unfair to expect an artist developing to raise the bar for themselves, like Beyoncé and Madonna have done. Gaga, however, has not only plateaud with the quality of her concert tours, she has degenerated. For her it seems the bar is only getting lower and lower and lower and lower. And I'm not gonna applaud that. No I'm sorry I don't agree. If any new artist like Ava Max or Zendaya could pull of Enigma on every level (vocals, visuals/lighting, fashion, choreography, theatricality, technology, authenticity, musicianship), she would be hailed as the new queen of pop, and joining the leagues of the main pop girls almost on an immediate level. Enigma is THAT good imo and I just think you're not giving it enough credit. I literally went out of the theatre thinking it was her best show and even better than Joanne World Tour, which I also attended. I could've said, though Enigma is great, JWT remains superior but I honestly feel, no JWT is great, but Enigma is better. Let me just say while I admire her The Fame Ball Tour energy, I would rather spend my money on Enigma than her first tour. She's just much more experienced and grand right now. And because of that, I simply don't agree that she has 'plateaued or degenerated'. Everything about Enigma has fulfilled what she did before if not surpassed them. In fact I'm not that interested in making a winner out of their shows, they're simply different. Like how a parent has multiple kids and they don't necessarily need to pick 'a best child'. She has experimented with different visuals and directions with her tours and shows and I don't see how Enigma is the same as artRAVE or Joanne World Tour or The Monster Ball Tour. They couldn't be any more different from each other. Again, I don't think it's in our best interest to have the same discussion again as we both have stuck with our previous opinions and we had the same discussion before. Edit: I was just asking how you could comment so favourably on Justin Bieber's performances when he is the one who's subpar on almost every level compared to how Gaga is doing as of now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 15 minutes ago, Bradley said: If any new artist like Ava Max or Zendaya could pull of Enigma on every level (vocals, visuals/lighting, fashion, choreography, theatricality, technology, authenticity, musicianship), she would be hailed as the new queen of pop, and joining the leagues of the main pop girls almost on an immediate level. Enigma is THAT good imo and I just think you're not giving it enough credit. Well, I think you're giving it way too much credit. Clearly we disagree about that. Which is fine though, I'm happy you're enjoying the show 15 minutes ago, Bradley said: I literally went out of the theatre thinking it was her best show and even better than Joanne World Tour, which I also attended. I could've said, though Enigma is great, JWT remains superior but I honestly feel, no JWT is great, but Enigma is better. But did you see her previous tours? And what shows of other pop performers have you seen? 15 minutes ago, Bradley said: She has experimented with different visuals and directions with her tours and shows and I don't see how Enigma is the same as artRAVE or Joanne World Tour or The Monster Ball Tour. They couldn't be any more different from each other. Except 80% of the song arrangements and choreography is exactly the same None of her peers, and I do mean none of her peers would ever dare to be that lazy in coming up with a new show design. I'm sorry but that's just the truth. It's inexcusable for Gaga to still be singing and dancing along to the same version of Poker Face and Bad Romance she's been performing since 2009. Not to mention she borrowed the story and stage concept for Enigma from another guy, scrapping her own original intentions It's not even her idea, and we have explicit proof of that. So what we do have is Gaga running with a stage and narrative concept of someone else and filling in the blanks with her old song arrangements and choreos. Oh, and adding some awkward dialogue to somehow connect the songs (she does not succeed) into a semi-convincing storyline. She literally has to talk her way through the show for it to make sense Again: none of her peers would ever dare to do this. Because they'd be dragged through the mud by the media and the fans. But because it's Gaga, it's ok for her to be a little off and quirky because that's her brand and persona. But that does not a great show make. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambino 24,290 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 6 hours ago, ANTI WP said: @Bambino Why am I tagged in this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ANTI WP 19,825 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 26 minutes ago, Bambino said: Why am I tagged in this? Because i am bored You are famous for making JB threads thats why Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bradley 59,243 Posted February 9, 2020 Author Share Posted February 9, 2020 28 minutes ago, Didymus said: But did you see her previous tours? And what shows of other pop performers have you seen? I saw Beyonce and Jay-Z's On the Run II Tour, Katy Perry's Witness: The Tour, Justin Timberlake's Man of the Woods Tour, Britney Spears's Piece of Me, Gaga's Joanne World Tour as well as Enigma and Jazz & Piano. I also saw some shows by Imagine Dragons, Charlie Puth and Selena Gomez but these three are not really in the league for the former few. The ones that I enjoyed the most are Witness, OTRII, JWT and I expected MOTW to be there in the league but surprisingly it's at most on the same level as Piece of Me. Enigma is obviously in the first league as well but if you forced me to crown a show, I have to give it to Enigma. I think one huge reason I feel this way and you don't is because #1 I saw it in person, #2 I had no freaking idea what would happen at all. I didn't watch a single video, I didn't even know what songs she was gonna perform. There were so many stunts, didn't know she would talk to a character she recorded herself, and it was some time before I saw her in high fashion again, she'd been wearing gowns for some time, and then of course the stunts like descending from behind me, the mechanical robot, the Paparazzi sphere, I mean maybe it lost its value right now that you've seen it for tons of times (though I still enjoy them). And then of course there's the rapport and connection between artist and audience that Madonna and Beyonce can't even replicate. (they're talented in their own fields) 35 minutes ago, Didymus said: Except 80% of the song arrangements and choreography is exactly the same None of her peers, and I do mean none of her peers would ever dare to be that lazy in coming up with a new show design. I'm sorry but that's just the truth. It's inexcusable for Gaga to still be singing and dancing along to the same version of Poker Face and Bad Romance she's been performing since 2009. Not to mention she borrowed the story and stage concept for Enigma from another guy, scrapping her own original intentions It's not even her idea, and we have explicit proof of that. So what we do have is Gaga running with a stage and narrative concept of someone else and filling in the blanks with her old song arrangements and choreos. Oh, and adding some awkward dialogue to somehow connect the songs (she does not succeed) into a semi-convincing storyline. She literally has to talk her way through the show for it to make sense Again: none of her peers would ever dare to do this. Because they'd be dragged through the mud by the media and the fans. But because it's Gaga, it's ok for her to be a little off and quirky because that's her brand and persona. But that does not a great show make. I have nothing to say to the first paragraph except that I think she struck a good balance between innovating new choreography bits and keeping some of the original. There are also so many more wow moments than just dancing to comment on which I think an audience needs to take into account. And what makes us guarantee that her original intentions are better than Eli's? What's wrong with using an idea from a friend? Natalie was the one who told Gaga to come down from the ceiling and it worked. Not everything has to come from one person, it's simply exhausting to do that. I see that as a humility of willingness to accept other people's ideas. All of those efforts you mentioned are things that other artists wouldn't even bother trying, besides all the words you used 'semi' 'of someone else' 'running with a stage' 'awkward' I would remove, because those are words that indicate your opinion, not facts. Enigma received critical acclaim from critics and fans (who I might say couldn't even care less to find out whether it belonged to Eli or her which doesn't even matter that much), and I'm not saying it's wrong to be different, but perhaps she did the right thing if all the attendees so enjoyed the show to the point where it's a massive commercial success. I mean if I were her, I'd go on with Enigma even if it means not satisfying one or two fans like you. I'm sorry but you are in the minority. Again, there's nothing wrong, it's just it doesn't justify Gaga's choice of producing and performing Enigma as being an incorrect career or artistic move. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bambino 24,290 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, ANTI WP said: Because i am bored You are famous for making JB threads thats why It's fine. I'm not offended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didymus 34,380 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 52 minutes ago, Bradley said: I'm sorry but you are in the minority. smh Keep your posts to this minimum in the future please. You just take an issue with me having and expressing that minority opinion, clearly. And that's fine but then don't even pretend to be listening to what I'm saying or weighing the arguments I'm presenting. You've already made up my mind for me: that my opinion is not an accurate perception of the show and that, therefore, my criticism should not be taken into consideration by anyone. I mean... fine, but why make all that effort to discredit one opinion? I never said my opinion was the majority or that people should agree with me. I even told you (multiple times) that I'm happy you and others are enjoying the show. I just think it's a mediocre, slapped together mess of a show that I'm confident GGD members would never stop trashing if Katy presented the exact same show as part of her tour or residency. That's my honest opinion. Which, again, is not worth much. And neither is yours. We're either gonna discuss the show or not. I'm not interested in a back and forth that is only going to result in you repeating that my opinion is illegitimate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Yeah you got that floppy floppy floppy floppy flooppy pppy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biggest Fan 988 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 8 hours ago, Bradley said: I know this really is off-topic but I find it really baffling how you accept visuals, fashion, vocals, and musical directions of this sort but criticise Enigma which is a much more disciplined, controlled, and expensive presentation. Enigma as a show literally butchers both these performances vocally, visually, as well in choreography and fashion, and yet you criticise it so much. I'm not trying to change your opinion or anything I'm just baffled is all. 🤖 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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