DNC trying to rig primary against Bernie?

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

1 hour ago, SEANGT said:

this is bad but like....don't think it will matter in the end. He can probably get enough delegates to just win. Or grab some from warren & other candidates rather than the superdelegates. 

The committee chairs are bad. If he can't form the platform to his vision it's going to be ridiculous. But in the end all that matters is getting the votes in the house & senate to pass bills. What democrats campaign & vote on and what the "official platform" are have nothing to do with each other as far as I'm aware. Look at Bernie. He's campaigning for Dems as an independent on policies only he supports in the party. 

Anyway **** the DNC but these are VERY surmountable issues. 

Well, its a multi-pronged assault.

Step 1) Say that Bernie isn't a Democrat. Compare him to Trump. Imply that he is racist, sexist, bigoted, etc. He doesn't have Democratic Values.

Step 2) Nominate former clinton officials, lobbyists, and other monied interests who are virtulently opposed to everything he stands for - Not because they are bad or unpopular, they are highly popular with Democrats, but because reasons. Officiate it by saying that the Democratic platform doesnt support universal healthcare, the green new deal, a $15 minimum wage, etc.

They have two options:

1) If he has either the popular vote or the most or close delegates, but no one wins outright, deny him the nomination based on the belief that they have created that says that Joe Biden would be the best candidate against Donald Trump.

2) If Bernie wins in total delegates, deny him the nomination on the basis that he isn't a "Democrat", and that his policies don't line up with the priorities of our stated platform. Since they have enshrined a platform and committees that are purposefully antithetical to him as a person and his platform, they can just say facts are facts get over it, we're a private institution and move on.

The attack ads being run by members of the DNC against one of their own candidates are to insure that the 2nd option doesn't come to pass. The latter is the worst scenario for the DNC in terms of their public perception, so the attack ads are to help them work towards the first option. It could still fail, but ultimately BOTH of these results fracture the democratic party and both will massively increase the chances of Trump winning, if not guarantee them. That they know this, but are doing it anyway shows that they care more about staying in power than winning 

This isn't conspiratorial, its business as usual. The people at the DNC and in important political positions all over this country wouldn't just lose the semblance of power they have, they would probably actually lose their jobs under a Sanders administration, because he essentially would have power over the DNC after he is the nominee. If he was smart, he would clean house because many of the people in there are the same people who helped Hillary lose (and also helped rig the primary against him)

Now, the obvious solution to this problem would have been for the DNC to break bread with Bernie's camp, as they tried to do in 2016 and promised to do so in the future... only to entirely buck that promise. They could have nominated a mixture of establishments and progressives to important positions in the DNC, to at least give a semblance of impartiality. Instead its people who have called Bernie personal insults, insulted his followers, implied he's a biggot, a grifter, etc. and people who would entirely call the nomination for Joe Biden TODAY if they had the power. That was an active choice on their behalf. 

If that had happened, there wouldn't be a concerted effort to tank Bernie's candidacy and chances. If Unity is the message Democrats need to hear, then leave the slanderous attack ads to the Republicans. If they had the best interests of the Democratic PEOPLE at heart, there would be no problem with Bernie becoming the nominee. Afterall, if the people choose him to represent them, isn't that the point of Representative Democracy? Their problem with Bernie is not that his values are undemocratic - Universal Health Care is obviously a democratic goal and has been for decades now. The problem is that he won't stand for corruption any longer.

*edit*

The third option was for Joe to just sail to the nomination unopposed, or for someone like Pete Buttigieg, Amy Klobuchar, or briefly Elizabeth Warren to wrest his momentum from him. They tried to prop up other centrists but all of them flopped, so their backup is just insolate Joe from any serious, legitimate criticism while attacking Bernie for things unrelated to him. 

[Noah X 5,250]

fck america 

[gagaisitalian 3,573]

2 hours ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

This isn't true at all. This is what media narratives want you to believe. Similarly, Hillary Clinton did nothing wrong re: Benghazi, Emails, etc. but the Trump campaign disseminated so much negative media, true or not, that the intended effect was that even democrats would go "well, there seems to be a lot of bad stuff out there, some of it has to be true?" - thats just a human cognitive bias at work. We believe the existence of lies implies a truth, which is fallacious.

Bernie has been well respected in Congress for years, and hasn't wronged any of his peers, unless you think that running for president against Hillary Clinton was "wronging" her, in which case every person that has ever run for president has wronged the other candidates by virtue of running  

About age,... people can live to be pretty old these days, someone being old does not mean they will be dead in 4 years by virtue of being old itself, thats unscientific. Bernie could live to be 90 for all we know, hes not likely to keel over tomorrow randomly  But if that is truly your concern, then it would be unfortunate to note that the establishment frontrunning candidate that they are pushing, Joe Biden, is just 1 year younger than he is... but on the other hand, Joe Biden doesnt seem capable of stringing together sentences without going off topic and appearing senile, and Bernie is discussing complex political issues at rallies on the daily, so if we had to go based off of what we see in their behavior, one of them is arguably better than the other  

People in politics are afraid of Bernie because he can win, not because he would lose.

 

 

I'm not interested in Biden whatsoever. I'm hoping for a Warren democratic ticket.

And after hearing the worries that longtime, respected, dedicated politicians (such as Warren and Clinton) have with Bernie...I just have to think there is something wrong with the guy. I haven't heard a single thing that the media has said about Bernie, I simply don't follow politics or the news that closely. But I have seen Warren confidently call out Bernie for lying (which he didn't decline) and now hearing Clinton say that no one in politics likes him. I don't know. I'm going to trust my gut which says he either doesn't work well with others or he isn't what he portrays himself to be. 

I have other issues with him as well. His ideas are way too far-fetched and his band of followers are disrespectful and ruined Clinton's chances in 2016 by withdrawing their support and he does very little to remedy this.

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

Just now, gagaisitalian said:

I'm not interested in Biden whatsoever. I'm hoping for a Warren democratic ticket.

And after hearing the worries that longtime, respected, dedicated politicians (such as Warren and Clinton) have with Bernie...I just have to think there is something wrong with the guy. I haven't heard a single thing that the media has said about Bernie, I simply don't follow politics or the news that closely. But I have seen Warren confidently call out Bernie for lying (which he didn't decline) and now hearing Clinton say that no one in politics likes him. I don't know. I'm going to trust my gut which says he either doesn't work well with others or he isn't what he portrays himself to be. 

I have other issues with him as well. His ideas are way too far-fetched and his band of followers are disrespectful and ruined Clinton's chances in 2016 by withdrawing their support and he does very little to remedy this.

I mean, you can vote how you want for who you want for whatever reason you want, but It doesn't make  the bolded accurate.

Bernie vehemently denied that he said that when she called him out, and I wouldn't say it was "confident" seeing as her statement was essentially "i disagreed and i don't want to talk about it any further" but thats just me. To me that read like her being unafraid to really go at him, even though he defended himself.

Anyway, he actually rose in the polls and she declined after this - the thinking being that most people interpreted that entire exchange as a clearly calculated attempted political attack, and it backfired for her. She now might not even be viable in Iowa for 15%, despite the DMR endorsement and others... meanwhile before it she was in a statistical tie for 1st  So it seems the people have decided on that.

Also, Hillary Clinton is not well liked or respected outside of the Democratic Establishment. Maybe you respect her and whatever she says, but I have to push back against it because its so demonstrably false. Bernie Sanders is the most popular senator in America, and Hillary's approval rating is something like 36% nationally, including Democratic support. It's quite literally backwards - Nobody likes HER.

In regards to people in Congress, he has been in government for 30+ years and has been seen as a character of deep integrity, consistency, and motivation from Republican and Democratic allies alike, many who have testified towards it, especially in 2016 when he first ran. He was trusted enough by Dems to be appointed to senior leadership positions, and was usually an expected extra vote for them on ballot measures even as an Independent. He was never the kind of politician to put his foot in the ground and try to be a tiebreaker or anything, he generally went with the Dems where he could.

Funnily enough, it has only been really in this primary and some in the last that the messaging has changed on this from the establishment. To me, I see Hillary Clinton's comments as a failure to acknowledge her own responsibility for her loss - blaming Russia, blaming Bernie and his supporters, blaming Comey, blaming literally everyone but herself, meanwhile we know that she was told to shore up her support in Michigan, Wisconsin (states Bernie won by decent margins in the primary), and Pennsylvania before hand, and she was also told to make her campaign message more personal and about something beyond herself winning, but she didn't  She also made some terrible political decisions that opened her up to unnecessary attacks in the general against Trump, an obvious demogogue and fake populist. There are 1001 reasons Hillary lost, and even if we accept that Bernie supporters not voting for her is one of the reasons, its statistically nowhere near the biggest reason, nor is it a reason that could have been fixed. Some 20% of Bernie supporters are like Independents and right leaning who voted for him because of his anti-establishment credentials, and they were never going to vote for Hillary Clinton, the pinnacle of establishment politics. What can be fixed is getting back those non voters who voted for Obama, and we can expand the electorate, draw in more independents to the process and young people, etc.

[Bt1 5,213]

3 hours ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

So would you agree that negative media can decrease voter turn out and change people's minds - even when it is all lies that should be fought against?

It depends . Negative media can increase or decrease voter turn out. That's why some candidates are going against the media that they dont like.

[HorusRa2 5,005]

29 minutes ago, gagaisitalian said:

I'm not interested in Biden whatsoever. I'm hoping for a Warren democratic ticket.

And after hearing the worries that longtime, respected, dedicated politicians (such as Warren and Clinton) have with Bernie...I just have to think there is something wrong with the guy. I haven't heard a single thing that the media has said about Bernie, I simply don't follow politics or the news that closely. But I have seen Warren confidently call out Bernie for lying (which he didn't decline) and now hearing Clinton say that no one in politics likes him. I don't know. I'm going to trust my gut which says he either doesn't work well with others or he isn't what he portrays himself to be. 

I have other issues with him as well. His ideas are way too far-fetched and his band of followers are disrespectful and ruined Clinton's chances in 2016 by withdrawing their support and he does very little to remedy this.

The margin was so thin in 2016, you can make at least a half dozen different arguments as to why Clinton lost. People who either hate Bernie or are predisposed to hating Bernie always blame it on his supporters. But the reality is, Clinton had to earn those votes, she was not entitled to those votes. She and the DNC did very little to offer a platform that addressed the needs and desires of that wing of the party. Other people, like myself, continue to point out the fact that the states that Clinton lost that caused her to lose the election were states where Trump visited TWICE as much by number of rallies in the election. She did not change her position on trade. She lost Wisconsin and Michgian primaries because Bernie hit her on trade. She didn't use that as a learning opportunity and Trump used the same strategy to win the states, even if barely. It was poor strategy on the Clinton campaigns part. 

[lairofhk 936]

Of course they’re rigging it. They are scrambling to stop Bernie just like last time. Can’t wait for the establishment’s downfall, it’s inevitable