Bernie continues to gain among college students

[gagzus 22,918]

From an outside perspective he and pretty much every democrat have no chance of winning the next election. Him especially tho.

but I hope and pray for y’all

[ItWasntLaauv 6,392]

The fact Yang is still under Warren makes me sad.

[Bt1 5,213]

1 hour ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Where do I even start with this

Your comment suggested that it doesnt matter if young people like Bernie the most, because they won't vote.

I responded - They, like Independents (the largest voting bloc), don't vote if they don't see anyone to support in the general, so it would be a terrible strategic decision to willingly sacrifice a large chunk of an important demographic for no good reason (that would be the result of nominating Joe Biden). Because, no matter how you slice it, in every general election in history, there is going to be a percentage of people who don't vote or vote against the nominee or vote third party when their candidate loses. Every single one   100% of any candidate's support never goes to the nominee. Ever. This includes Buttigieg supporters, Warren, Klobuchar, Yang, etc. The only way to shore this # up is to adopt policies, principles, give positions, and make concessions with that candidate's base. Not doing any of this is guaranteeing a loss of votes.

Acting like Bernie supporters are especially likely to do this when facts show that they were better than Obama-Trump voters and Hillary - John McCain voters just makes people look blindly ignorant of the truth because of their own personal biases  

As of December to Now, the numbers of supporters who would go to Trump if their candidate lost is:

Buttigieg: 12%

Warren: 10%

Biden: 9%

Bernie: 4% 

 That's not surprising, since Bernie supporters are either economically left leaning and working class or... the most progressive. It is actually centrists and moderates who would be open to voting for Trump, not progressives  

https://t.co/V7hiyXn6tL?amp=1 <- for the cross tabs and full results from Emerson if you want

It's not that young people will all sit at home. But if you recall, there were more people from key communities in the midwest and across the country overall that just sat back home and didn't vote  than that decided to vote in protest or for Donald Trump. THAT is the invisible figure that really lost Hillary the election. "70,000 votes across a few states is what Trump won by" is the narrative, but the reality is that there's hundreds of thousands of people who just didn't vote that normally would have if they liked the candidate, and 2 million people who decided to vote and just leave the top of the ballot empty   Hillary should have won by THAT scale of a number difference. Joe Biden and establishment Democrats are trying to play a game of mostly shoring those 70,000 votes up instead of appealing to the millions of potential voters who didn't vote. It's ridiculous.

~~

It is simple: Democrats have a voter turnout problem, and they rely too heavily on a small electorate instead of expanding it. One way to expand it is to appeal to people's actual wants, but they don't do it because the working class wants contradict their corporate interests  If the Democratic party returned to being the Working Class party that they were pre Reagan era decentralization, privatization, and deunionizing, they would get back large swathes of the currently Independent vote and also the Youth vote (the intersection between working class and millennials is also multi-racial!) In fact, I believe they would see small gains around almost every demographic, and they might even start winning back some of those coveted "working class white men" they love to say they can never reach.

This won't happen by running people like Joe Biden. In fact, it runs the risk of continually reducing our chances of winning national elections in the future if we just keep dissuading people from being engaged in politics by running carbon copy candidates who don't stand for anything. 

 

I've said the same thing, but from a different perspective and I was attacked with the narrative " hillary lost is only because of her".

Well, if so many Bernie supporters are likely to stay home AGAIN  or vote blank or vote Trump or vote for somebody else who hasn't a change to win, it's their choice and Trump will thank them from the White House.

Bernie needs to win the primary and stop with all these biased polls and narratives. Your vote only counts once ( if u vote). You cant force your political candidate to a majority that votes for somebody else by threatening that you wont show up to vote. 

All these people need to learn how the democracy works and respect it.

[HorusRa2 5,005]

1 minute ago, Florin said:

I've said the same thing, but from a different perspective and I was attacked with the narrative " hillary lost is only because of her".

Well, if so many Bernie supporters are likely to stay home AGAIN  or vote blank or vote Trump or vote for somebody else who hasn't a change to win, it's their choice and Trump will thank them from the White House.

Bernie needs to win the primary and stop with all these biased polls and narratives. Your vote only counts once ( if u vote). You cant force your political candidate to a majority that votes for somebody else by threatening that you wont show up to vote. 

All these people need to learn how the democracy works and respect it.

Maybe instead of jumping the gun and using boomer talking points, “that’s great but do they vote,” you could wait and see if they do vote. I must remind you that Bernie got more votes than Trump and Clinton combined among this age group last primary. So regardless of whether or not all of them show up isn’t necessarily the point. 

[Bt1 5,213]

Just now, HorusRa2 said:

Maybe instead of jumping the gun and using boomer talking points, “that’s great but do they vote,” you could wait and see if they do vote. I must remind you that Bernie got more votes than Trump and Clinton combined among this age group last primary. So regardless of whether or not all of them show up isn’t necessarily the point. 

Oh. One person can talk about that because Bernie gets all the credit. Another cant. And then u bring another talking point from 2016 on the same subject.

Maybe respond to the comment and let all the people involved share their opinion. It's that hard? 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

8 minutes ago, Florin said:

Oh. One person can talk about that because Bernie gets all the credit. Another cant. And then u bring another talking point from 2016 on the same subject.

Maybe respond to the comment and let all the people involved share their opinion. It's that hard? 

Why are you trying to play victim? You came into this thread to make a cynical comment that this support doesn’t matter because they don’t vote. I mention 2016 to point out that they did come out and vote and they voted for Bernie in a similar fashion as the polling suggests. Stop playing victim because you don’t like what I have to say. 

[Bt1 5,213]

1 minute ago, HorusRa2 said:

Why are you trying to play victim? You came into this thread to make a cynical comment that this support doesn’t matter because they don’t vote. I mention 2016 to point out that they did come out and vote and they voted for Bernie in a similar fashion as the polling suggests. Stop playing victim because you don’t like what I have to say. 

You attack me 2 times and I am still the one to blame for just sharing an opinion? 

All the democrats will win by a large margin with educated young people. You can see it in the link you shared.

We were talking about different things. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

28 minutes ago, Florin said:

You attack me 2 times and I am still the one to blame for just sharing an opinion? 

All the democrats will win by a large margin with educated young people. You can see it in the link you shared.

We were talking about different things. 

I didn't attack you. Stating, "Maybe instead of jumping the gun and using boomer talking points, “that’s great but do they vote,” you could wait and see if they do vote. I must remind you that Bernie got more votes than Trump and Clinton combined among this age group last primary. So regardless of whether or not all of them show up isn’t necessarily the point. " is not an attack. It was a suggestion. 

 

Your next comment: 

Oh. One person can talk about that because Bernie gets all the credit. Another cant. And then u bring another talking point from 2016 on the same subject.

Maybe respond to the comment and let all the people involved share their opinion. It's that hard? 

 

My Response: 

Why are you trying to play victim? You came into this thread to make a cynical comment that this support doesn’t matter because they don’t vote. I mention 2016 to point out that they did come out and vote and they voted for Bernie in a similar fashion as the polling suggests. Stop playing victim because you don’t like what I have to say. 

 

1. You get frustrated for me mentioning 2016, but your first comment in this thread mentioned Hillary. So, if you're going to be irritated for me mentioning it, maybe you should stop talking about it too. 

 

2. Suggesting that I don't appreciate a diversity in opinion implies that I was attacking you (I wasn't). So again, you tried to play victim to make it look like I'm the aggressor here and I'm not. 

3. You've down doubled down on the, "you're attacking me but I'm going to then deflect."

4. It does not matter whether or not democrats get young people in a general election. This is a primary and what matters is how much of the democratic constituency comes out relative to their demographics that are going to determine who wins this primary as we go state by state. The focus of this thread was discussing Bernie's 20 point lead with young college students. And apparently it now has to turn into a debate with you about every little detail and defending Bernie because you have to come into every Bernie thread with something negative to say. 

[Bt1 5,213]

21 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

I didn't attack you. Stating, "Maybe instead of jumping the gun and using boomer talking points, “that’s great but do they vote,” you could wait and see if they do vote. I must remind you that Bernie got more votes than Trump and Clinton combined among this age group last primary. So regardless of whether or not all of them show up isn’t necessarily the point. " is not an attack. It was a suggestion. 

 

Your next comment: 

Oh. One person can talk about that because Bernie gets all the credit. Another cant. And then u bring another talking point from 2016 on the same subject.

Maybe respond to the comment and let all the people involved share their opinion. It's that hard? 

 

My Response: 

Why are you trying to play victim? You came into this thread to make a cynical comment that this support doesn’t matter because they don’t vote. I mention 2016 to point out that they did come out and vote and they voted for Bernie in a similar fashion as the polling suggests. Stop playing victim because you don’t like what I have to say. 

 

1. You get frustrated for me mentioning 2016, but your first comment in this thread mentioned Hillary. So, if you're going to be irritated for me mentioning it, maybe you should stop talking about it too. 

 

2. Suggesting that I don't appreciate a diversity in opinion implies that I was attacking you (I wasn't). So again, you tried to play victim to make it look like I'm the aggressor here and I'm not. 

3. You've down doubled down on the, "you're attacking me but I'm going to then deflect."

4. It does not matter whether or not democrats get young people in a general election. This is a primary and what matters is how much of the democratic constituency comes out relative to their demographics that are going to determine who wins this primary as we go state by state. The focus of this thread was discussing Bernie's 20 point lead with young college students. And apparently it now has to turn into a debate with you about every little detail and defending Bernie because you have to come into every Bernie thread with something negative to say. 

1. Go check again what was my first comment. No mention of Hillary.  

2 & 3 . Jumping the gun

Using boomer talking points

Dont play the victim card

- all things you have said.

4. Go check again my first comment. Dont accuse me of transforming the thread. I was quoted. I responded it and so on, until you quoted me. 

Now go to that bernie supporter and say to him similar things like:

" dont jump the gun. Why dont you just wait to see if people wont come out for biden, even if bernie doenst win.", accuse him for off topic content and other similar things, if you are so fair. 

 

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

1 hour ago, Florin said:

I've said the same thing, but from a different perspective and I was attacked with the narrative " hillary lost is only because of her".

Well, if so many Bernie supporters are likely to stay home AGAIN  or vote blank or vote Trump or vote for somebody else who hasn't a change to win, it's their choice and Trump will thank them from the White House.

Bernie needs to win the primary and stop with all these biased polls and narratives. Your vote only counts once ( if u vote). You cant force your political candidate to a majority that votes for somebody else by threatening that you wont show up to vote. 

All these people need to learn how the democracy works and respect it.

Do you even... read what people say? "Bernie supporters are likely to stay home AGAIN"  

They didn't, they voted for Hillary like every other base of a candidate who lost in history, as I and others have pointed out to you, repeatedly, and you keep repeating this line like its this damning attack to Bernie's credibility or his base, but it just isn't, it never was and it never will be, because it is a myth perpetuated by establishment media bias that is NOT interested in digesting Hillary's loss and only interested in blaming everything but her while also purporting to want to be smart in defeating Trump, which is oxymoronic. You can't fix a problem without addressing the cause, otherwise you're just wandering around and hoping things work out. Let's not do that when it comes to defeating Donald Trump.

You can't get people to show up reliably for a candidate they don't want to show up for. You can't threaten to shame them into taking off work, getting off early, using their valuable break time, to go Vote. You can't get black and brown communities that are suppressed and given arbitrary boundaries and hurdles to overcome those hurdles all for something they don't want to do or don't see as important.

 You can't say "I'm offering you nothing, please do this^" and expect everyone to do it. And even worse, you can't get people who normally don't care about politics at ALL on board without any sort of message or vision. All of these votes are FORFEITED by not making any attempts to reach out, to increase access/remove barriers, to increase registration, and ultimately turnout, and thus, it is your fault for not securing those votes, not the fault of those people for not hearing your non-existent message   

Non voters are often People of Color, poor or working class, and in rural-suburban areas, lacking resources and who don't have the time or energy to be involved in politics because they are just worried about their job, their family, paying the rent, etc. Are these really the "privileged" people we're talking about who "didn't vote so Trump is all their fault" That makes no damn sense  

And guess who Bernie Sanders supporters are in 2020!? They are typically working class people living paycheck to paycheck, crippled by student debt and medical debt, fearing climate annihilation, dying of depression and anxiety, lacking quality health insurance. They only 49% white (the only campaign with this ratio), and they are women. These people are not going to clock out early and lose out on some potential pay to go vote for 1) things they don't believe in in the first place, 2) a system that will NOT affect their lives in any noticeable way whatsoever, and 3) because they feel pressured by other people to do so

If you give people a reason to vote, they will likely vote. If you do not, they will likely not vote. It is truly that simple. There is no threat involved, that is just how human beings behave and have behaved in the past. What we are saying is that if you nominate Joe Biden (which is equivalent to not giving them a reason to vote), they will likely not vote. And yes, this implies that "I am not Trump"  is not "a reason to vote" - that is the point. If that were the only thing required, again, I would posit that "I am not Trump AND I want to make the working class's lives better" is a smarter strategy to win in 2020

[HorusRa2 5,005]

31 minutes ago, Florin said:

1. Go check again what was my first comment. No mention of Hillary.  

2 & 3 . Jumping the gun

Using boomer talking points

Dont play the victim card

- all things you have said.

4. Go check again my first comment. Dont accuse me of transforming the thread. I was quoted. I responded it and so on, until you quoted me. 

Now go to that bernie supporter and say to him similar things like:

" dont jump the gun. Why dont you just wait to see if people wont come out for biden, even if bernie doenst win.", accuse him for off topic content and other similar things, if you are so fair. 

 

...