CNN mic captured Sanders/Warren heated discussion

[Eighteen 5,430]

1 hour ago, Brainiac said:

What kind of mental gymnastics did you have to do to come to that conclusion? All the evidence in this situation points to Warren misinterpreting what was originally said at best and lying about what was said at worst. But the mere fact that this whole leakage was perfectly calculated and timed to come out during a time when they thought it would hurt Bernie the most makes it even more snake like on Warren's end.

i already said why. i'm too lazy to type it out again. it's pretty obvious to me so idk why you can't figure it out.

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

3 hours ago, TheQueenLG said:

They both have track records of being honorable people. Neither of them have a reputation of lying. Here's what I see:

1. Bernie made some sort of statement in 2018 regarding our sexist culture and society potentially precluding a women from being elected POTUS.

2. Warren remembered this as "Bernie does not think a woman can win." This is perhaps not the most wholesome recounting, but it's not a backstabbing like some of you suggest.

3. Warren shared this with members of her campaign. 

4. Someone on Warren's campaign, possibly Warren, herself, but that's unclear, leaked this info to CNN.

5. CNN capitalized on this non-story by framing it (incorrectly) as a feud, misconstruing friendly statements by both campaigns regarding each other and the allegations.  

5. When the question was asked during the debate, Warren anticipated Bernie to own up to saying something along the lines of "Bernie does not think a woman can win" and provide the context of his statement... Bernie, however, denied the statement altogether. 

6. This chain of events creates the narrative that Bernie thinks Warren, when she makes her allegations, is lying. 

7. Warren, being a straight-shooter, confronted Bernie following the debate. 

If some of you think Warren flat-out fabricated this allegation, I say that this is not reflected by Warren's honorable record. You are all so quick to invoke Bernie's record to prove he would not make a comment like I discussed in point #1 above, but, in doing so, you concurrently ignore Warren's record, which is also very honorable. 

When it comes down to it, this disagreement is not beneficial to either Bernie or Warren, tbh. And it has been amplified by CNN to protect corporate interests. 

The facts simply do not support the universal condemnation of Warren like most of y'all are asserting. And the facts simply do not support any type of condemnation of Bernie. The facts are unclear. But, like some of you are quick to invoke Bernie's record to prove he did not make the comments in question, I, respectfully, am going to invoke Senator Warren's long-lasting record of honesty to prove that she is not a bad-faith actor, contrary to the GGD consensus. 

Thoughts? 

@Whispering @Eighteen @HorusRa2 @derpmonster @Marilyn MonHoe

I apologize for the length of this post

I disagree with a few of your positions.

1-4, I agree with, and #5 is interesting because the original story in CNN was inaccurately sourced to "4 people" none of whom were in the room. It was actually two, and of the two, one has said that Bernie's recollection (He said that Trump would use sexism against a woman in the general) matched what they were told. The other had no further elaboration. So, I'm going to call this out as Bad Journalism on CNN's side. They should know better, but I think its intentional imo. 

#6 is I think a weird assumption to make. Bernie's response was basically previewed by his staff and all over social media the entire day before he said it. He basically said exactly what I expected him to say, which was also mirrored by his statement released before, where he vehemently denied saying that "a woman cant win" (he says he said a woman would face sexism because Trump will stoop low). I don't know if I buy that Warren thought he would respond with "I said a woman can't win BUT...." - I respect her intelligence too much to believe that that's what she expected to happen there, or maybe her team just doesn't update her on stuff? But I think that's naive too really  If he had said something like that,  that would have been the end, so was she really expecting him to jump on a sword he personally doesn't believe he should be jumping on? Bernie Sanders is not going to torpedo his entire campaign over something he genuinely does not believe. And I've no reason to see him as the kind of person to immediately go to "you're lying!" out of nowhere. I think its fair to say that no matter how you slice it, he believes that he didn't say that. Basically, knowing how prepared statements and sticking to a script works in campaigns, I don't buy that she expected him to say something different than what was being said the entire day by Bernie Surrogates and staff all over the internet  

#7 However, I don't know if I think that Elizabeth Warren then went to try to trap Bernie after the debate with some kinda "gotcha!" by saying that he is the one who called her a liar. Yes, their mics were obviously hot and what not, but her run so far has taught me that Liz has bad political instincts, not that she is suddenly an accomplished subterfugette (making this word up  ) who would be good at a sting operation  

I have more reason to believe its just because they ultimately don't remember this conversation the same. It's possible that she just literally took what he said a lot more aggressively than what he believes he said or what he meant, so she thinks he said shes a liar, and he thinks she said hes a liar, but as I recall,  she had described this meeting positively sometime in early 2019, so that's a bit sus I guess. That's the kind of thing that would weigh on me heavily for a while, or make me righteously indignant to prove the other person wrong or whatever, but I digress.

It doesn't take away from the fact that her team leaked this on purpose to make her look good and Bernie look bad  ^ That's really the kicker.

Also, unfortunately, I would add that even though I'm not one of those people, some people have believed Elizabeth Warren is not an honorable actor at all re her Native American heritage thing, her telling people her kids went to public school, and even her own admissions of embellishing details in her most recent book... so for those people, this is just another example of her not being an honorable, good faith actor. 

That being said, I really don't think the Bernie people reacting this way actually believe Elizabeth Warren came up with this story out of thin air entirely, so I disagree that this is a "universal condemnation of Elizabeth Warren." Some are probably, but everyone I know and most that I've seen from people I follow has been about how undeniably political and personal this is. It's not that Warren is this evil person now, its that she was willing to go nuclear on her own expressed ideological ally and "friend" over... potentially a badly worded canvassing script that she talked down before even confirming if it was real or not? Or worse that she would do this perhaps because she *personally* wants to win so much that she needed the boost in Iowa or whatever... Whatever it is, it makes me personally not trust her anymore as a leader of the progressive movement, because that kind of behavior is exactly the problem with our political system. I had been like 70 Bernie 30 Warren since maybe August, but I always saw her as someone I would trust to do what she says she will while in office, even though many reports came out from people like Harry Reid and Obamaworld people that said that she would capitulate and compromise her beliefs, and then when she fumbled M4A like that... She moved to a distant like 90-10 for me. Now its pretty 99-1. Like, part of my support for Bernie is trust in his character to not get into office and then immediately not do what he campaigned on, and I dont feel that I could trust Warren to do the same anymore  Like, if she's going to make this kind of commotion for political points (and I don't see how u can argue that this was anything but a planned political stunt, since people don't randomly remember old private conversations and have their team "anonymously" leak them to press a day before a debate leading into a caucus....) what else would she do?

(Also, I don't like the term "snake" personally because I think its probably a bit more sexist than people realize, but this is certainly slimey, dirty, and political in the worst way to me) 

[Bt1 5,213]

He could have said " I only told the truth". He didnt. 

Still no evidence of who is the liar, not that it matters for most of the people here. 

[Bt1 5,213]

4 hours ago, Brainiac said:

What kind of mental gymnastics did you have to do to come to that conclusion? All the evidence in this situation points to Warren misinterpreting what was originally said at best and lying about what was said at worst. But the mere fact that this whole leakage was perfectly calculated and timed to come out during a time when they thought it would hurt Bernie the most makes it even more snake like on Warren's end.

There is no evidence. It's a he said, she said situation.

[Guest]

She attempted to frame what Bernie allegedly told her as sexist and that hes an anti woman candidate, then shes offended that Bernie called her a liar? he did not even call her a liar, he was too nice about it. Shes so entitled its unbelievable! How dare you call me a liar for falsely accusing you of being sexist lol

Im sure her next move after the backlash against her is how she is being harassed by Sanders sexist male supporters  

[Guest]

4 hours ago, dit said:

at this point I do think Bernie might have said that indirectly in some way because Warren wouldn't have approached him like that if she wasn't sure he said it. Is it enough for me to not support him though? idk...I think what he said might have been taken out of context. Perhaps he meant it as in the political system or the american public isn't ready for a woman in office and that work needs to be done to change that but maybe she took it as him saying no female can be president which is difficult for me to believe considering Bernie's stance on women's rights.

He obviously did not mean that a women is mentally not capable of running for president, he meant she cant because of society sexism. That is if he even said it.

[Guest]

The View Meghan McCain accusing Sanders supporters of being sexists for calling Warren a snake  

 

[Antoni 5,332]

10 hours ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

I don't see this. If anything, it looks like Bernie wants to keep this private while Warren is actively choosing to make it all public in some misguided attempt to elevate her own candidacy.

I don't think he looks like an asshole, I'm just pointing out how it'll look to most people 

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

The actual video with the audio 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

Here is my problem on this. @TheQueenLG

1. CNN confirmed that it was the Warren Campaign who leaked it to CNN. They leaked the story to the media company that was the moderator of the next debate which happens to be the last debate before voting, the last big moment before both bernie and warren are stuck in impeachment and 2 days before the debate. The campaign leaked this intentionally because they knew it would be talked about at the debate and they wanted to do this to give Warren steam going into Iowa. This didn't leak organically and it leaked so far after the actual conversation that to say that it wasn't a calculated move would be dishonest. 

 

2. Warren does have a track record of lying. She went on record with Rachel Maddow saying 2016 was rigged by HRC and the DNC and two days later backtracked it. She knew it was rigged but backtracked because of some unknown reason. 

      A. She did lie about her native american heritage or at the very least embellished if you want to              be charitable. 

https://www.cnn.com/2017/11/02/politics/elizabeth-warren-dnc-rigged/index.html

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2017/11/09/warren-changes-view-democratic-primary-from-rigged-fair/AFmRnFJlGHs2dBrpISYJwK/story.html 

      B.  She even copied a recipe and got caught. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2146628/Elizabeth-Warrens-Pow-Wow-Chow-Cherokee-recipes-word-word-COPIES-famous-FRENCH-chefs-techniques.html 

   C.  She embellished the fact her kids went to public school rather than private school. 

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/my-children-went-public-schools-warren-telling-truth-99407

   D. She may have embellished when she said she was fired as a school teacher because she was pregnant. 

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/8/20904777/elizabeth-warren-pregnancy-discrimination-washington-free-beacon

Why am I posting all of this? To point out that Warren, probably due to sexism as a woman, tries to be all things to all people. By doing so, she does get herself in positions where she tries to please everybody and in doing so pleases nobody. These kind of political miscalculations make it really hard for her to have credibility about this conversation. It would be different if Warren didn't leak the story. If it was somebody who went on record who was independent of the campaign, I would have been more inclined to believe her (not saying I would have bought it immediately but I would have at the very least not dismissed it immediately like I have). 

3. This is more of a subjective point but it is the facts. In 2016, the Clinton campaign attacked Bernie all the time with sexism. They made several moments on the campaign trail about sexism. I'm not going to provide links and all because  you can do that for yourself and I don't want to dwell on 2016 too much. What's important is this. Clinton's campaign weaponized sexism (because he wasn't being sexist to Clinton, some may disagree with me here but idc). What about Warren's campaign? A lot of the people that were on Clinton's campaign are now on Warren's campaign. I am positive that they convinced her that this was a good political strategy to use. After all, Hillary did win in 2016. Again, this continues to show how Warren listens to all the wrong people and makes mistakes that costs her politically. 

4. She was very rehearsed to combat Bernie with her whole, "collectively men on stage lost 10 elections and the women haven't lost at all, etc." At the very least she was ready to make an argument about women's electability.  

 

5. The day of the debate article released saying the campaign wanted to deescalate. If Warren wanted to do that, she could have went on stage and after Bernie said he didn't say it, what she could have done was say that there were staffers who misconstrued the context of the conversation. She could have said that she would rather focus on issues rather than a fabricated fight brought on by rogue staffers and left it at that. The fact she chose to double down shows that she wanted to push this issue even further, not to deescalate. She may have said she didn't want to fight with Bernie but she literally called him a liar and said I don't want to talk about it further. I'm sorry but if she was telling the truth, she would have wanted to say what was said and call Bernie out for lying. She wouldn't even look at Bernie and looked down while she said this. I just don't see that she told the truth here based off of her record and the way this entire thing rolled out. 

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rubycramer/elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-woman-president-deescalation

6. She has lost so much of her support and she knew she had to turn this thing around quick. She used this as a last effort to try to turn things around. Bernie has been consolidating support among progressives for the past 3 months and the fact of the matter is she wants to be president. How cool would it be for her to be the first woman president? At the end of the day, I think she put her ego above her friendship with Bernie and considering Bernie has already pledged to support the nominee she's banking on him and his voters rallying around her in the general because she isn't as bad as Trump (and she knows she's way more progressive than Clinton so despite the treachery, people will be more inclined to vote for her than clinton anyway). 

 

That's my take on this and I don't see how you can take it any further. Now for Bernie, you could tell during the first part of that debate that he was hurt. He was clearly upset by what has transpired and even after Warren called him a liar on TV, he still tried to shake her hand and be friendly after the debate. She instead went straight to attacking him and he got upset with her and walked away. That does not look like a person who said a woman couldn't win the presidency. It looked like a friend who was just stabbed in the back. They've been friends for nearly as long as I've been alive. I can't imagine how much that hurt him. 

 

[Guest]

So now we have to choose who is lying, Bernie or Warren. And im not gonna be the one to accuse a Native American of lying. Just not gonna go there. 

[HorusRa2 5,005]

Just now, Faysalaaa said:

So now we have to choose who is lying, Bernie or Warren. And im not gonna be the one to accuse a Native American of lying. Just not gonna go there. 

Jimmy Dore is awesome. 

[Married the Night 3,955]

I’d be mad at him too. 🤷🏼‍♂️ 

[LibraLove 1,281]

14 hours ago, Chickens in Malibu said:

Geez she was really hostile.

WTF, it's almost like a new side to her we haven't seen before

She's always been like this. Just watch the interview she did with Amy Goodman. She got asked a question she didnt like and practically threw the mic down and stormed off the stage.

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

5 hours ago, Faysalaaa said:

The View Meghan McCain accusing Sanders supporters of being sexists for calling Warren a snake  

 

Weaponizing identity for outrage is literally meant to draw crowds like the people on "The View" to her side, so its unsurprising.

Sunny has been able to see through this kind of b.s. in the past, but she's been flying with centrist glasses for a few months now, even basically saying that she doesn't like that Bernie is taking no Corporate donations and running a grassroots campaign, because corruption is just how things work So I've mostly stopped watching the View tbh. Joy also went from a huge Sanders supporter to "Joe's perfect!" so