Sources: Sanders believes a woman can’t win

[HorusRa2 5,005]

1 minute ago, SKANK said:

"It is ludicrous to believe that at the same meeting where Elizabeth Warren told me she was going to run for president, I would tell her that a woman couldn't win. It's sad that, three weeks before the Iowa caucus and a year after that private conversation, staff who weren't in the room are lying about what happened. What I did say that night was that Donald Trump is a sexist, a racist and a liar who would weaponize whatever he could. Do I believe a woman can win in 2020? Of course! After all, Hillary Clinton beat Donald Trump by 3 million votes in 2016."

So, one of them is lying.

I’m just saying one of them ran a 2016 campaign after they begged the other to run against Clinton. That person didn’t run and didn’t endorse their friend. Meanwhile, the one that didn’t endorse their friend was talking to Clinton about a possible VP slot and making demands about keeping Wall Street executives out of the administration as a trade in for not endorsing their friend. 

 

So one does things out in the open and open and responded to this story immediately whereas the other went to the experts and crafted a statement and said, “I really don’t want to talk about this further.” 

If you believe Warren, you would have to be delusional to do so. 

[Gov Hooka 8,008]

One of them is lying and everything points to Warren being the liar. Why bring this up NOW if it allegedly happened in 2018... ??? Weird flex from her to try and get ahead in this race after those stalling poll numbers. Lost a LOT of respect for her.   

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

Here's Joe Biden making the point that Warren is accusing Bernie of making in case you thought this gotcha was actually about making distinctions  

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-sexism_n_5e0f6d5ec5b6b5a713b982cc

~~~

This is ultimately.. liberalism vs progressivism, just like this entire race has been.

Now, white liberal choice feminists will scream "BELIEVE WOMEN!?!?! BERNIE BROS ARE ALL SEXIST MEN WE TOLD YOU!" while academic feminists and activists continue to say "We stand with Bernie because his policies are the best for women"

And you know who loses from this framing? EVERYONE. The left eats itself while the right wins, and its actually just ****ing depressing  

[weed 78,922]

5 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

He didn’t say it. His campaign has flat out said that it’s a lie.

I genuinely can’t believe Warren would stoop this low.

Yeah it's weird for me.... if it is therefore a lie, like if Bernie insists that it is a lie, then I will be shook by Warren honestly. I was rooting for her from the side but this is not a cute move.

[Eighteen 5,430]

1 minute ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Here's Joe Biden making the point that Warren is accusing Bernie of making  

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/joe-biden-sexism_n_5e0f6d5ec5b6b5a713b982cc

This is ultimately.. liberalism vs progressivism, just like this entire race has been.

Now, white liberal choice feminists will scream "BELIEVE WOMEN!?!?! BERNIE BROS ARE ALL SEXIST MEN WE TOLD YOU!" while academic feminists and activists continue to say "We stand with Bernie because his policies are the best for women"

And you know who loses from this framing? EVERYONE. The left eats itself while the right wins, and its actually just ****ing depressing  

well that's the left for you. the second most annoying people on the planet next to republicans

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

4 minutes ago, weed said:

Yeah it's weird for me.... if it is therefore a lie, like if Bernie insists that it is a lie, then I will be shook by Warren honestly. I was rooting for her from the side but this is not a cute move.

I mean, we can get into the inns and outs of a he-said she-said, or we can realize that this is politics, and the political climate is clear and verifiable: This story over a year old comes out, 1 day before the Iowa debate and 3 weeks before the Iowa caucus after slipping in the polls drastically over the past few months, the original sources that broke the story were all anonymous but all confirmed that none of them actually spoke to Warren herself before releasing the story, a reporter from Mother Jones broke that members of Warren's team were the people who were pushing the stories themselves and then deleted it, etc.

We can pretend to be "well, guess we'll never know!" or we can look at what we do know, and we can draw inferences, and then as individuals we can decide to make a stance based on that  

[gabeoz 7,915]

Honestly it just doesnt make sense for Bernie to say it and I have a very hard time believing her. Bernie for decades has said a woman can be president and only joined the 2016 race because she wouldnt. Even though Hillary lost the 2016 race (in which he did campaign for her), she did win the popular vote by a large margin, which would only reaffirm that belief in my eyes. 

It just doesn't add up 

Also, as others have pointed out, with the first caucus just weeks away and Bernie pulling ahead with Warren right behind him. It's very coincidental that this is just now coming out.

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

4 minutes ago, Eighteen said:

well that's the left for you. the second most annoying people on the planet next to republicans

Well, I would argue that what makes them annoying is that some of them are trying to be like the Republicans  

(Inb4 "Are you calling moderates Republicans! DIVISIVE!  ")

[sarahb 17,188]

Trump supporters watching the Bernie and Warren supporters eat each other alive like 

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

1 minute ago, sarahb said:

Trump supporters watching the Bernie and Warren supporters eat each other alive like 

Obama world and Clinton world + Joe watching Bernie and Warren supporters eat each other alive like:

It's almost like... Establishment politics hates progressivism just as much as Conservatives do!

Like, Progressives are a threat to Corporatism, and Democrats are pro-corporatism. Ofc they will fight against it, while also applauding it for existing in theory.

[gabeoz 7,915]

If anything, he probably brought up how damaging misogynistic attacks from the right/Trump can be, which could be easily twisted or misunderstood. But thats just my two cents 

[Bonkers 30,860]

I find it funny that this broke a few days after Elizabeth hoped Bernie "would reconsider" his attack on her campaign.  I think she leaked this, and planned how to manage her response.   She lies a lot and the types of lies where she doesn't care if the info is true or not.  

[Eighteen 5,430]

1 minute ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Well, I would argue that what makes them annoying is that some of them are trying to be like the Republicans  

(Inb4 "Are you calling moderates Republicans! DIVISIVE!  ")

i think people don't understand that at some point everything becomes tinged with the political. as i see it so far, warren's team probably worked to get this thing out, and bernie lied because he absolutely cannot admit that he said it for political reasons. i don't believe warren made it up, it's just something that happened. 

 

4 minutes ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Obama world and Clinton world + Joe watching Bernie and Warren supporters eat each other alive like:

It's almost like... Establishment politics hates progressivism just as much as Conservatives do!

Like, Progressives are a threat to Corporatism, and Democrats are pro-corporatism. Ofc they will fight against it, while also applauding it for existing in theory.

i don't think it goes that deep. most people don't even know what they're talking about, they just pick a candidate and stan them no matter what. and this is also two progressives going at it, it's becoming a man/woman thing  

[Economy 52,844]

39 minutes ago, weed said:

hmmm!! I'm kind of disappointed in Bernie? I want more from "He disagreed." but if she's officially saying it then his earlier response is kind of like hmm should've clarified instead of denied 

 

35 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

We need to know the context of this conversation. Of course, it's a private matter between those two and we'll never know exactly what was said, but I just have a difficult time imagining Bernie saying that he doesn't believe a female candidate could win.

I also don't believe Warren's lying here. She's always seemed like a kind and geninuely authentic person, so I don't think she'd start making up lies just to garner support. That'd be such a low blow for her. Again, we'd need to know the context of the situation to fully gauge what Bernie said.

 

29 minutes ago, Gov Hooka said:

One of them is lying and everything points to Warren being the liar. Why bring this up NOW if it allegedly happened in 2018... ??? Weird flex from her to try and get ahead in this race after those stalling poll numbers. Lost a LOT of respect for her.   

 

43 minutes ago, Eighteen said:

 

quite frankly bernie might be right and i believe there's nothing wrong with what he said. it's an indictment on the USA, not him. (though i do think it would be more honest to say it publicly, but from a practical standpoint it is probably necessary not to so as not to jeopardize his support).

i mean he did see what happened in 2016. 

and ps i believe warren for people who will come in to say she's lying 

 

37 minutes ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

Why on earth would Bernie ever say that when he’s flat out said the exact opposite his entire life? And when he actively begged Warren to run back in 2015 and only ran because she wouldn’t?

This is an obvious, desperate attempt to smear Sanders three weeks before Iowa. The fact that she would stoop this low... I’ve genuinely lost a ton of respect for her.

 

39 minutes ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Well, its a response.

It's basically "look we're friends so *insert damaging stuff here* but we have the same goals!" which is really snakey.

I'm sure that the discussion was about the fact that Trump will use sexism in order to fight any woman candidate, which is true. 

We're already seeing the discussion shift from a generalized abstraction about "a woman" or "women" can't win, to "a woman would face sexism going up against Trump."

Is Bernie a sexist? or a pragmatist? Or Both? I'm curious  

There's always two sides to every story and context is important. Simply Omitting details without technically lying can be enough to be misleading and politicians use this tool all the time to give across false messages and then if they are called on it they can say they didn't lie which is true

 

Warren saying Bernie said a woman can't win is a very simple small statement. There must of been a conversation behind it and what he was saying by it may not even be the way she makes it come across

 

I never judge without hearing Both sides of the story. Things are rarely as black and white as they may seem and I'm sure that's whats probably happened here

 

I don't think Warren flat out lied but it's very possible the real convo with more details might not be what people might think

 

Bernie never gave me the impression of a mysogonist

[Fish 6,259]

she is so annoying