Centrist Democrats need a 2020 reality check before it's too late

[NCgaga 4,345]

Surprisingly trump has won some black votes due to low black unemployment. I’ve heard a few black males say this. He is going to win again because he has a big organized following, who is definetely going to show up at the polls. Unfortunately the democrats had too many candidates, none that are really considered exciting enough to get people who normally don’t vote, to vote. There is a lot of apathy out there. There are a lot more people who stay Silent or just don’t vote due to lack of caring about politics, work, laziness, etc. The democratic candidate has to excite that base. 

[Bt1 5,213]

2 hours ago, M Monstre said:

Biden has sort of the incumbent thing going for him. He's ahead in the polls because people think he has the "electability" factor and because people think that because he was Vice President, he has more experience. For the electability argument, personally, I don't think that's how you should view candidates. I've said this many times, but just look at the 2016 election. Hillary was 100x more "electable" than Trump, yet she still lost the presidency. As for him being former Vice President, while that certainly gives him more experience, that's not necessarily something you should just vote for him for. 

I understand how democracy works. However, the fact of the matter is that people want change. That's one of the main reasons Trump got elected. People didn't want the status quo that came with Hillary, they wanted change. They saw Trump as an unconventional politician (mainly because he NEVER was a politician to begin with) who was going to "drain the swamp" of all its corporate, greedy overlords, but that never happened.

As Trump's presidency has continued, I think people's desires for change have only escalated. Bernie connected with voters because of his policies. Even if Biden is #1 in the polls, again, that comes down to how "electable" he is. The majority of people actually support Bernie's plans and policies. 

I dont agree with u. It's hard to say why people support one candidate. First of all, I dont think it is based on a single reason, so if Warren and Bernie are connecting with voters according to you, so should be Biden, who is ahead in the polls. 

Democracy in US is more complicated that you make it sound. For example, Hillary won the popular vote, but lost the elections. 

Another complication is that it is a 2 party system. If people fail to understand that elections continue even if their fav candidate loose the primary, the voters need more education. If the education is there, then the reality is that the change you think americans want is not wanted by the majority of the americans, but maybe by a small group that happens to be more present in the your circles. 

[Marilyn MonHoe 11,011]

46 minutes ago, Whispering said:

That’s ridiculous. Moderates or centrists have seen enough elections to know how Republicans vote. They know that Republicans fall in line. 

This is some silly opinion piece that you’ve grabbed ahold of to try and criticize centrists. 

It’s going to take the full range of Democratic voters to beat Trump. Support your candidate and then vote against Trump in the General. All the rest of this is noise. 

They know how Republicans vote and fall in line yet they still make more of an effort to connect with them instead of other Democrats. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding regarding the  history of American politics can see how right wing modern Democrats have become.

I can point to a number of facts in our history that can be used to criticize centrists in our country, no opinion pieces are needed. 

I agree with your last point. That’s why I’m voting for a candidate that is doing the most out of everyone to reach out to nonlikely voters such as young people and independents, bases of support that moderates aren’t even trying to penetrate. Just because your opinion opposes the opinions of others doesn’t make them noise.

[REALITY 80,184]

8 minutes ago, Florin said:

I dont agree with u. It's hard to say why people support one candidate. First of all, I dont think it is based on a single reason, so if Warren and Bernie are connecting with voters according to you, so should be Biden, who is ahead in the polls. 

Democracy in US is more complicated that you make it sound. For example, Hillary won the popular vote, but lost the elections. 

Another complication is that it is a 2 party system. If people fail to understand that elections continue even if their fav candidate loose the primary, the voters need more education. If the education is there, then the reality is that the change you think americans want is not wanted by the majority of the americans, but maybe by a small group that happens to be more present in the your circles. 

Well, of course there is more than just one reason why people support a candidate. I'm not trying to downplay Biden's support because obviously he has a lot because of the fact that he's consistently been #1 in the polls. That said, what I said isn't false. People believe in Joe Biden because of his policies, sure, but also because they believe that he has the best chance of defeating Trump. People believe he's more electable. In my opinion, I don't think he could defeat Trump in the general election, that said, I'd be more than happy if he did. At the end of the day, any Dem is better than Trump. Bernie, on the other hand, gets most of his support because of his policies and how he communicates his policies, not because he's "more electable".

I also know that democracy, here in the US, is more complicated than I stated. I know that Hillary won the popular vote over Trump. While I'm not like other people here who probably know tons more about politics, I'm not inept when it comes to discussing it.

I agree with the fact that more voters need to be more educated; however, I disagree with the fact that people think that elections are over if their favorite candidate loses the primaries. There's still a general election; people understand that things continue.

Education is important, though, that's something we agree on. I feel like often times people vote against their own interest because of their undying loyalty to their political party. This goes both ways, for both Democrats and Republicans. That said, I feel like people like Sanders or Warren genuinely have good ideas that I feel like a lot of people could agree upon at a fundamental level:

Going after wealthy and greedy corporations?
Having health care treated as a human right and not something that only richer people can afford?
Combating the very real threat of climate change?
Fighting for rights of POC, women, LGBTQ people, and people of different religions?

I mean, these are just all things that I feel like most people can agree is a good thing. Sure, not everyone will agree to that, but generally speaking, this goes for most people's interests.

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

I agree  

Maybe its my arrogance speaking, but Trump's win, while scary, is actually really simple to break down, and I see the path to beating him as being just as simple:

Some axioms:

1) Trump ran as an anti-establishment, radical populist, and nationalist candidate.

2) This resonated with several groups of people in this country to varying degrees in order:

1 - People who bought into nationalism based on hate and fear mongering of minorities, instead of rallying people based on their class against the elite class 

2 - People who bought into his anti-establishment credentials about being a political outsider, a businessman, etc.

3 People who bought into his economic populism wholeheartedly, but were tricked and who may be revisiting their vote. 

4. Evangelical White Christians  

We can only take away from 2 and 3, and running Joe Biden absolutely precludes us from taking away from #2, which is the biggest malleable chunk of his support. Joe Biden has to appeal to #3 (every candidate would) but he has very little strategy for that and a terrible voting and legislative (and executive) record to stand on in order to make that position.

Bernie Sanders is in position to take support away from group #2 and #3 with a strong background and trust from the people, as well as expand the electorate and bring back unenthusiastic voters who stayed home for Clinton. The expanded electorate is possible in every state, but #2 and #3 people are especially in the rust belt.

Boom  

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

6 hours ago, uo111 said:

The people on this forum really hate Biden. To them Biden is polling in the negative teens and if a piece isn’t overly critical of Biden, it’s propaganda. 

I don’t even like Biden but I’m getting pretty worried that young ultra liberals are trying to destroy his reputation so that if he wins the primary, he will lose the general election against trump.

Im not sure how or why you see people pointing out his problems so he can address them as us trying to "destroy his reputation"

If you want Joe Biden to be the nominee and to win in the general, then he will have to get ahead of his many, many, visible mistakes that make him an easy target for Republicans to stomp all over him in the general, its simple.

This isn't self sabotage, it's pointing out that strategically running the most vulnerable candidate (as we did in 2016) is a disaster waiting to happen, it makes no sense. It's hedging a bet that he *might* get bombarded with lies, propaganda, (and some real things) because we just have to have to default to centrism.

Dems are shooting themselves in the foot, unfortunately  Hillary was the presumptive candidate in 08 as well, but we ended up running the progressive*, Obama, and rallying around him exponentially because he was an incredible politician, orator, and populist, and the furthest left person running, because he campaigned on policies that Americans wanted, and on the message of change, hope, etc. that people wanted.

Let's do it again, and let's win. (But this time, don't let Citi Group or whoever pick out your cabinet and don't get citizens to hate the gov't by bailing out the banks carte blanche  )