The Development of ARTPOP

[27monster27 9,482]

6 minutes ago, seashellplay said:

?

[Isidro Guevara 821]

ARTPOP is a mix of many ideas that were left unfinished or polished way too much for the GP that it became "watered down". I like it but sometimes I feel likr it is so watered down that it sounds shallow. Tracks like Aura, MANiCURE, ARTPOP, Donatella, Fashion!, Mary Jane Holland, and even Dope sound so simple they don't come across as convincing. They're like a hit and miss. They could be so much better with more or less/better instrumentation and better vocal/ lyrical content. Gaga is kind of "missing" in these tracks. Like she's there but not...idk if that makes sense. 

[bxr 1,016]

3 hours ago, seashellplay said:

It is hard thinking of a concept differing from ARTPOP for her fourth album, because it definitely felt as if she had done everything. She did the commentary on fame, with the more appealing compared to the decayed. She had done the fantasy/rebellion blended with identity record, and then there was ARTPOP, the 'filosawphicawl album', seemingly the manifesto of all of her artistry and work. My bet is that LG6 is likely going to end up becoming some evolved Born This Way, with elements of Joanne/her earlier work, and the 'polished' visual concept of ARTPOP. 

 

3 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I concur. Tbh  after Joanne it's hard to figure what she'll do next and i think she herself was in a similar boat (at least conceptually). When you're someone who runs full speed to make seismic impact with each album, you run out of themes that you can explore eventually lol

I’m not super-versed on the developmental process of ARTPOP, so the bulk of this thread is comparatively new information to me … and insightful as far as creative (and commercial) context. That said, (and this is going to be more overarching than specifics as far as track history, backstory, etc. details, logic, coherence, and such) it kind of seems like ARTPOP is the oeuvre’s Unfinished Symphony, somewhat by design, not necessarily by original intent, but there is the sense of it being designed with a more “extended” release in mind … being the philosophical album, being the album about the decay and a dualistic dynamic (so, generating something from decay), being definitively more process-focused, and the manifesto being inherently “infinite” in its tone as a mantra:

but “ARTPOP” is really an inferno, and it’s the only song on the record that I didn’t really want it to *go* anywhere, or “explode” … and, because it’s really the center of the record, I really wanted there to be a more infinite tone to this concept of ARTPOP … I wanted it to kind of hypnotize people, and kind of become like a mantra … [Source]

Even though the delivery was a far cry from what was intended to be released during its development, the constant pivots and pitfalls have become so central to ARTPOP’s ongoing narrative and continue to impact its perception and identity …

Spoiler

it’s kind of becoming an example of how posthumous perception reflects more on the current culture / audience than it does the deceased (or in this case work that’s already been released), because someone can’t change who they are after they’ve passed — it’s the public’s perception that changes in that regard … so with ARTPOP, it hasn’t changed since its release (with the exception of DWUW being pulled), so how the public perceives it -- which is in constant flux -- is a strong reflection on the mentality / consensus of pop culture itself (but tbh, this example could be so heavily flawed here).

Tangent, digress. But, moving forward it just feels like ARTPOP has become or developed into a running submotif in the collective anthology … a reflection or commentary on contemporary culture in a sort of overtly unspecified way — and the least controlled or properly-executed studio release, from a conceptual standpoint. However it ends up being processed is its point, and that point isn’t really anything more than reversal of the conventional form of commercial creative work (or reverse warholian to the extent of being anti-pop, in a way) — whether intentional or not … it’s not considered as having an end-goal (or coming to a cohesive conclusion) necessarily; but in hindsight it’s become the thread that kind of holds everything else in the anthology together; due to and despite its own fragmentation or apparent senselessness … everything else makes more sense in context of ARTPOP’s apparent nonsense … everything else seems more complete in comparison to ARTPOP’s motley delivery … there really is no finished product (yet), it’s kind of still in development, and it can always be revisited … like an Unfinished Symphony

But to the seismic note (which, in retrospect, i should have just quoted here, lessons never losses), “running full speed to make seismic impact with each album,” and thus running out of themes to explore sort of sounds like ARTPOP’s retroactive prologue … and in that it kind of sounds like the avenue one would venture down after Joanne / ASIB. To the “evolved BTW, with elements of Joanne/earlier work,” and polished visuals of ARTPOP vision … that sounds like the anatomy or vehicle you use to journey down said avenue. Everything about the mystery surrounding the maelstrom that was / is ARTPOP feels like Gaga’s unfinished symphony (more Schubert than Beethoven, but strong echoes of both), and it feels like she’s about to unveil whatever it’s renaissance revival happens to be — the tweet about “I don’t remember” could mean anything, but it could also reiterate the infinite tone of ARTPOP, and you don’t remember the infinite because it never ceases to exist, you’re always experiencing it, just sometimes more so than others …

This really didn’t go anywhere or make a statement, maybe it was just a far-reaching footnote on ARTPOP’s perpetual state of development, and potential reintroduction before further incubation and so on and such forth … I, never know, just more rambling, I suppose

[seashellplay 512]

Can you all please provide new information 

7 minutes ago, Isidro Guevara said:

Aura, MANiCURE, ARTPOP, Donatella, Fashion!, Mary Jane Holland, and even Dope

I'm going to have to pass on Aura, ARTPOP, Mary Jane Holland, and Dope. Aura, ARTPOP, MJH, and Dope have arguably some of the best lyricism/production on the album, but Dope is a ballad, so I understand why fans would dislike it. ARTPOP's lyrics are confusing at first glance, people didn't like the Israeli guitar blending with the EDM sound, Mary Jane Holland has interesting lyricism, but nothing occurs on it, it is just a simple EDM track.

Donatella is plagued by horrible production, MANiCURE is camp aware of it being camp.

[Inferno 2,880]

On 12/15/2019 at 9:43 AM, Italian said:

Does this mean that Jewels N Drugs was not her idea/vision

 

On 12/15/2019 at 4:22 AM, gagzus said:

Interscope pushed hard for her to do some hip-hop/rap collabs because they were gaining traction on radio at the time (and basically ruled airplay for the majority of the 2010s in the end tbh) so they had setup the collabs for her, later they still wanted a collab with rappers even more as rap became bigger in 2013 and that’s when she collabed on Jewels & Drugs.

Conceptually the album went through many changes that Interscope stunted her from doing, the original concept was the decay of the blonde superstar as the media- and the world turned against her slowly. Interscope felt the concept was too dark with songs like Princess Die being about suicide and other dark themes weren’t appropriate. Around this time we can assume they had a talk where they told her “we just want you to be pretty and make pop music” and thus the second concept started; Disney Princess in a rave, which was stunted because 1) Disney is a brand so copyright concept issues and 2) she was associating a brand with raves, drugs and sex which we can assume Disney wouldn’t have taken lightly had she went ahead with it. So the deeper concept about making the art come first and making technology, fashion and art become one with her music. Where the music was pop with art imagery, and her educating people through her medium about art. And we know how this went down. We can assume the disney princess concept was around till early 2013 when she was probably told she couldn’t do it because brand image association.

So...some of what you say sounds entirely plausible but I have to add some correction: while the label may have wanted a hip hop collaboration (who knows), DJ white shadow was a trap DJ. His main interest is hip hop music and he and gaga were incredibly close at that time. He jumped on as executive producer and whatever he was passionate about I'm sure made her passionate as well seeing as she likes getting interested in passionate people's passions lol so I truly do not think it was the label pressuring anyone. I think in actuality Kendrick was someone she saw as a visionary (just as she did Kanye back in the day) and she wanted to work with him but it didn't work out. Thus to fill the void of the urban influence on the record they just tacked the subpar jnd on there as filler.

And as for the whole Disney branding thing, it would've been irrelevant because it didn't HAVE to be a Disney princess. She could have done a princess concept without being affiliated with the Disney brand. So I don't believe that'd be the specific reason for that potential concept to be scrapped

[MonsterARTPOP 627]

On 12/15/2019 at 1:22 PM, gagzus said:

Ok, long read ahead so be warned idk how to put a spoiler on mobile so RIP this thread and bandwidth.

———

The album started production in late 2011 around the time of Marry The Night being a single. But she already had the next album title in mind by the release of BTW in May 2011. Gaga started working with Zedd in 2012 when he was her opening act for the BTWB writing and recording with him and Paul on the road, Fernando was also working with her on a few songs (Partynauseous being one eventually) and Madeon came into the fold in autumn 2012 presumably to replace Fernando, around this time Zedd became the main producer on her record for a time, with Paul replacing him in 2013 as the main producer when they had to redo most of the album during her downtime. She had two major meetings with Interscope in 2012, I’m not sure of the first one but the second one was in September. Then she had a major meeting with them in 2013 again after she had fully recovered and went out into public view again.

(Please remember some of things I’m saying from here are based on me putting information together and some we know for definite or some I have heard from knowing people who met her and asked stuff backstage at the BTWB in the UK, so take what I say lightly and not purely factual)

By the time the September meeting was done she had recorded ARTPOP, G.U.Y., MANiCURE, Sex Dreams, two versions of PARTYNAUSEOUS, part of Bitch Don’t Kill My Vibe, probably other songs we’ve never heard and other demos too for Ratchet and Red Flame existed. September was supposed to be a finalising meeting because Interscope wanted her to release an EP ASAP instead of an album just to keep her name out there and release ARTPOP in 2 EPs so she could get streams and keep herself in the charts (an idea she later expanded on but never completed) during the last meeting in September she was supposed to turn in an EP but didn’t have one ready so they extended her time frame and she was to drop at least a single by April 2013 with a summer 2013 release for an album instead of an EP. In this meeting her collaboration plans with Azealia and Kendrick fell through because they wanted her to distance herself from Azealia’s bad image and Kendrick’s team wanted her to make PN the lead off her album and make it solely hip-hop because her gay fanbase and dance music wasn’t good for Kendrick’s image (as he was just starting to get major notice in the hip-hop world at the time), she wouldn’t compromise and Kendrick’s team wouldn’t give her more time to perfect her part of BDKMV so the collabs were all shelved. Then obviously by April she had had her hip injury and pushed everything back to recover.

Interscope pushed hard for her to do some hip-hop/rap collabs because they were gaining traction on radio at the time (and basically ruled airplay for the majority of the 2010s in the end tbh) so they had setup the collabs for her, later they still wanted a collab with rappers even more as rap became bigger in 2013 and that’s when she collabed on Jewels & Drugs.

In terms of songs the majority of the songs from the final cut of the album were written and recorded between August 2012 - October 2013. Mary Jane Holland was written in September/October with Aura, Do What U Want was written and mostly finished in Nov/Dec 2012 and R Kelly was added in early 2013, Donatella was written on a plane to Thailand and had a demo recorded over email with Zedd in October/November (the day after she was in Italy to see Donatella and was throwing flowers from her chateau balcony she wrote it).  MANiCURE, Sex Dreams, G.U.Y. and her more happy/fun/sexual tracks were recorded in 2012 mostly when she was happy, high and unbothered. sadder and darker songs like Swine, Dope, Gypsy (in context not sonically) were made when she was either touring in pain and after her hip broke. Applause had a concept by late 2012 BEFORE her hip injury, conceptualised when she was in the UK for the tour (as the leaked concept demo proves, with her talking to Helen in the background, and a friend of mine who met her backstage at the BTWB said that she said she was making a song that would include her fans on the record (presumably the cheering and screaming recorded at the show- we can assume the cheering sample in the song is from the O2 Arena in the UK, but obviously at the time they didn’t know what she meant).

Conceptually the album went through many changes that Interscope stunted her from doing, the original concept was the decay of the blonde superstar as the media- and the world turned against her slowly. Interscope felt the concept was too dark with songs like Princess Die being about suicide and other dark themes weren’t appropriate. Around this time we can assume they had a talk where they told her “we just want you to be pretty and make pop music” and thus the second concept started; Disney Princess in a rave, which was stunted because 1) Disney is a brand so copyright concept issues and 2) she was associating a brand with raves, drugs and sex which we can assume Disney wouldn’t have taken lightly had she went ahead with it. So the deeper concept about making the art come first and making technology, fashion and art become one with her music. Where the music was pop with art imagery, and her educating people through her medium about art. And we know how this went down. We can assume the disney princess concept was around till early 2013 when she was probably told she couldn’t do it because brand image association. 

The first few songs she made that ended up on the album were ARTPOP, G.U.Y., MANiCURE and Sex Dreams. With Dope and Venus being two of the last ones. Hip-Hop collabs were pushed by Interscope and as we now know her management/label had her voice heavily filtered, layered and auto tuned on the final outcomes without her knowledge so they could get the album out as fast as possible. And she basically said that fame went to her head during this time and after the era was a disaster behind the scenes, Tony came to her rescue.

Sorry for reviving a old thread but u got quite a few things wrong which I vividly remember being different.

 

Yes, DWUW solo was done in 2012 but RKelly was added shortly b4 release in October 2013, not in January 2013. She was going thru old files and they came across DWUW and DJWS suggested to put RKelly on it. That's why Temple was removed from the album which was still on it as of September 2013, for DWUW. And also why the tracklist reveal was postpone (remember her tweet about a new collab sneaking in).

 

Gypsy, just like MJH, are from late Summer/early Fall 2012. I remember tweets from that time in 2012 with #Gypsy and a selfie with Madeon. She used to tease ALOT of ARTPOP songs on twitter and LM.com. I remember Temple, MANiCURE, Donatella lyrics from LM.com and her teasing Temple, Onion Girl in August 2012. Also TEA, Burqa, Sex Dreams, I Wanna Be With You, Applause, DWUW were teased on twitter in late 2012/early 2013. Also wasn't Donatella done in May 2012 during her Asian leg of the BTWB?

 

Azealia collab was still on ARTPOP in early 2013 when Azealia was rapping her verse on ustream. It fell thru cause she called Perez the f word and having someone accused of homophobia on a Gaga song wouldn't be a good look for Gaga. Princess Die was also a really early song, she played it for a magazine that interviewed her in January 2012!

 

Pretty much only Venus and Dope on the album are from 2013. All the other songs on the album were started in 2012.

 

The only one we have literally NO IDEA or TEA on is Fashion! I personally think it was done in Summer 2013.

 

 

[MonsterofFame 1,758]

On 12/15/2019 at 7:22 AM, gagzus said:

The first few songs she made that ended up on the album were ARTPOP, G.U.Y., MANiCURE and Sex Dreams. With Dope and Venus being two of the last ones. Hip-Hop collabs were pushed by Interscope and as we now know her management/label had her voice heavily filtered, layered and auto tuned on the final outcomes without her knowledge so they could get the album out as fast as possible.

It gives me relief to know that a song like Jewels 'N Drugs was forced, instead of Gaga being so oblivious to seeing how terrible of a song it was.

Where did you hear that the song was basically edited and released without her knowledge? Never heard that theory before.

(Great writeup btw, I recall most of it too!)

[Antoni 5,332]

On 12/15/2019 at 1:59 AM, BARCODE said:

Does anyone remember how pissed off monsters were at that girl for saying "GAGA LISTEN TO MY CD" lmaooooo. That girl was a running joke all of 2013 lmao

Jessica will always be the iconic CD Girl.

[Antoni 5,332]

On 12/16/2019 at 1:52 PM, Spock said:

even worse was the I'VE BEEN WAITING FOR NINEEEE HOURSSSS PLEASEE!!@!@!1111 girl lmao 

Wasn't that 12 Hour Katie?

[GagaUnderYou 4,915]

On 12/15/2019 at 1:09 AM, dancewithnobody said:

As for me, it always seemed that ARTPOP had at least 3 different concepts.

The first one was "dead blonde", and Princess Die was the main song of that concept. Back then, she put on lots of vintage clothes in 2012, and then she dyed her hair that literally meant "dead blonde". 
Idk but I feel like it could be one of Gaga's ideas that blondes didn't have happiness and suffer such as Diana, Marilyn, Grace Kelly.  Besides, it was quite logical because ARTPOP = pop-art vice versa and it was a significant part of all the retro culture. 

The second one was connected with future and technologies. I guess she changed musical direction of the album very much after working with Madeon and Zedd. It was the time when she started wearing a bright green wig and showed us the glowing wig. That concept became a part of the final concept more or less. 

The third one is what we consequently have. Obviously, if she didn't have the trauma, ARTPOP would've been released much earlier and such songs as DWUW and Dope wouldn't have happened, but we have what we have. 

* it's just my thoughts from the prospect of an old fan * 

DWUW was written and recorded in 2012 before her hip injury.