Bolivian president resigns amid fraud poll protests

[Othon 34,299]

3 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

Here's my issue: 

Even if Morales committed election fraud and was forced to resign... the issue lies in what's coming next. If people were sick of Morales, that's fine. But this coup-like strategy just stinks of CIA/US involvement. The more I read the more I see it. 

If people were truly sick they could have had another election with international oversight and then people could have voted him out. 

He called for a second election to give the people another opportunity to make clear that they wanted him to lead Bolivia and the military initiated this coup as a direct response.

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

I think for a lot of Americans who dont know much about leftist policy or understand anything about leftism outside of the American concept of "liberalism" as a blanket term for the left, the idea of a president without term limits seems anti-democratic, immoral, and wrong, because we often associate that model of government with dictators that have Seized power for themselves repeatedly and silenced all that disagree with the motion to consolidate executive power. There was a referendum, yes, but the highest courts of this country overturned it. This is no different from lets say the fact that we live in a Republic and not a direct, pure democracy. Our governmental system is Also designed with such mechanisms in place. Case and point, a Republican has not won both the popular and electoral vote in America  since George H. Bush  in 1989 - a facet of our government (the electoral college) acted as it saw fit even though it was against the interests of a *direct* democracy - a system of government that Bolivia ALSO does not have. This isn't an argument about whether or not that sort of thing should exist anymore, clearly both Bolivia and the United States are on our own separate journeys about re-examining this relationship. I say this only to point out that this isn't inherently authoritarian or even fascist. 

But there's even more nuance to this situation, the very (imo) clear signs of inteventionism from the right wing in this process of forcing him to resign is certainly connected with the narrative of election fraud as wrong, even though he very clearly and under no sign of coercion agreed to do a second election, even allowing for a run off. If Morales was an authoritarian, a dictator, etc.  this would not be the situation.

I hope people consider this before running to the gut feeling of "whoo, this corrupt guy was toppled!" and also look at the policies of the far right opposition to this man, as well as the kinds of things Morales supported and did while he was in ofifce.

 

 

[GagaTheExplorer 3,053]

21 hours ago, Snejana said:

this is BAD news like really really bad, an absolute tragedy for Bolivia and it's people, especially for the indigenous population now at the mercy of a violent right wing and w/o Evo's support one can only imagine how Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela will resist usa's sanctions

I can't believe people like you exists...

the fact that there are people that know nothing on what's going on here  (Cuba, Nicaragua and Venezuela) yet send support to the dictators that ruin our lives every single day just makes me wanna cry. 

60% of my family has leaved the country, I haven't bought shoes or clothes in years, we don't even eat three times a day anymore, and trust me when I tell you that this has nothing to do with the sanctions, this was a hyper inflated damn mess even before Trump even won the elections in the US

I don't know what you have been told about this, but it's completely wrong. So please don't say things without knowledge because your lack of empathy can really hurt feelings

I'm devastaded that there can be people actually rooting for the regime that ruined my life and took my future 

[Morphine Prince 109,983]

 

[malazam 15,710]

FORCED TO RESIGN.

It was a coup.

[Emvee 8,865]

I get the discontent about the indefinite re-election, but objectively speaking he was democratically elected, so..........? Am I missing something here? 
 

and he agreed to have another election but the military forced him to resign anyway, so.........? What am I missing? 
 

Morales’ administration increased economic growth and decreased inequality for Bolivia. This is a fact. I don’t know what anecdote some random person on the internet has to say about their personal experience, but this is what the objective numbers say, so......................????

[Gov Hooka 8,008]

On 11/10/2019 at 4:37 PM, Henri Bardot said:

I think right/ left are celebrating. 

Evo was a corrupt president. 

This is a coup, it is undemocratic, and you are in the wrong for supporting the right wing, anti-indigenous reasons for his removal. Shameful

[Gov Hooka 8,008]

On 11/10/2019 at 5:05 PM, Lumi said:

Evo Morales has been the president in Bolivia since 2006. He wanted another term people voted no in a referendum he said f*ck it and ran again in a fraudelent election. PEOPLE WERE NOT HAPPY so they took the streets.

Not everything is US-related honestly it's so boring when americans try to apply their logic everywhere without understanding the context every single time.

Lmfao the ignorance 

[Lumi 3,512]

27 minutes ago, Gov Hooka said:

Lmfao the ignorance 

Lmfao why? Did I lie?

[Lumi 3,512]

 

1 hour ago, Postboy said:

I get the discontent about the indefinite re-election, but objectively speaking he was democratically elected, so..........? Am I missing something here? 
 

and he agreed to have another election but the military forced him to resign anyway, so.........? What am I missing? 
 

Morales’ administration increased economic growth and decreased inequality for Bolivia. This is a fact. I don’t know what anecdote some random person on the internet has to say about their personal experience, but this is what the objective numbers say, so......................????

"Democratically elected". Nope, it was a fraudulent election.

I mean yes, Bolivia's inequality decreased but I mean that's what happened in all the region. Peru, Ecuator, Chile. When there's an economic boom going on the economy will create jobs and wealth if the government doesn't have much intervention. (Unless you have someone like Maduro as a president.)

I'm not saying Evo was a bad president or that whoever is in charge of Bolivia will be better/worse. The thing is Evo tried to cling to power in any way he could and the results are now being terrible for Bolivia. I know Evo is nothing like Trump, but I bet your reaction to that whole "the economy is good" argument would be very different if he tried to stay in power in an illegitimate way.

[Lumi 3,512]

On 11/10/2019 at 8:02 PM, Lion Heart said:

Am I the only one concerned with all these right-wing Governments 'winning' elections from Latin America to Europe? It all feels so... orchestrated? I get that Morales may not have been the ideal President or had  'clean' hands, but what will happen to all the social and environmental progress made around the world? Is this really what people want?

Edit: I'm reading so many conflicting reports and opinions about this issue.

This is the Trump effect I'm afraid. I really hope we don't get someone like Bolsonaro in my country... but that's what happens when people get afraid they create "an enemy" and elect a "leader" who will "protect" them. It's sad... but that's history.

[Luc 4,776]

On 11/10/2019 at 11:35 PM, Morphine Prince said:

Nothing wrong with populist left. When they become authoritarian is the issue. 

In the Latin context I would say the populist left can be pretty bad. Especially when they destroy business confidence (unannounced nationalisations, regulations) and destroy free trade (like Trump is doing but worse, how mych does and iPhone in Argentina cost again?)

But Morales, from what I've read, was a good guy for most of the time. But it just feels like I'm reading constant propaganda from both sides all the time on this issue. 

[Othon 34,299]

1 hour ago, Lumi said:

Lmfao why? Did I lie?

Yes, you did.

48 minutes ago, Lumi said:

"Democratically elected". Nope, it was a fraudulent election.

I don't know why you keep repeating this. Even if we were to discount the October election results, Morales would be president through January of next year. He's absolutely the democratically elected president of Bolivia.

But we wouldn't discount the October election. Bolivia's highest court ruled that he had the right to run for another term. He ran, won by the margin he needed to avoid a runoff, and this coup took place in direct response to that fact. There is no concrete evidence at all that the Morales government interfered in the election results aside from one entities's report, the OAS, which has become an arm of the US government and has received a significant portion of their funding from the US over the last several years.

He even offered to run again, in a second election, to avoid any doubt that he was elected democratically and, instead, the right-wing Christian party trashed his home, dragged one of his officials through the streets while cutting her hair and pouring red paint all over her, burned buildings down and threatened to kill the children of other Morales officials. The military demanded that Morales resign, and he did so expressly to avoid the military targeting any more leftists. That's the textbook definition of a coup. Putting this on Morales is outrageous.

This wasn't a fraudulent election, he wasn't elected fraudulently, and he is absolutely the democratically elected leader of Bolivia. Trump's government and the media took advantage of this opportunity to, in part, prevent Morales from nationalizing the highly profitable lithium industry, which would've dealt directly on the international market rather than exporting the commodity at bargain prices to Western corporations. It's obvious what's happening right now. This has happened so, so many times in so many countries in the recent past. Venezuela in 2002, Haiti in 2004, Honduras in 2009, Paraguay in 2012, Brazil in 2016, and more recent attempts in Nicaragua and Venezuela. Why are you defending a right-wing coup carried out by the military and a hyper religious right-wing party? I genuinely don't understand. 

48 minutes ago, Lumi said:

When there's an economic boom going on the economy will create jobs and wealth if the government doesn't have much intervention.

Ignoring the fact that these are just right-wing economic talking points, that isn't even remotely true. Look at the US. The economy stabilized after the 2008 collapse and income inequality has continued to increase, black wealth has been decimated, and the poor at large haven't seen a single wage increase. The new wealth is all going towards those that already have wealth. Morales wasn't some sort of passive bystander while he was leading the country. His policies led to these economic gains for working class and poor Bolivians. 

The decrease in economic inequity and poverty in Bolivia are the direct result of the policies that Morales implemented. Of course the right wing don't want an indigenous leftist in power. He's successfully helped to redistribute wealth that colonizers and the rich hoarded after exploiting indigenous Bolivians and has increased the minimum wage significantly, and all the while the economy remained healthy and stable. He's literally one of the most successful socialist leaders in history, despite constant interference from the US and other capitalist nations that wanted to see him fail, and when they couldn't oust him electorally, they did it with military violence. 

44 minutes ago, Lumi said:

This is the Trump effect I'm afraid. I really hope we don't get someone like Bolsonaro in my country... but that's what happens when people get afraid they create "an enemy" and elect a "leader" who will "protect" them. It's sad... but that's history.

Putting the decades-long trend of creeping fascism onto Donald Trump is insane. Trump himself is the direct result of a global and national backlash to neoliberal capitalism, unrest and disaffection among workers and those in poverty creating the conditions for either a leftist resurgence or the emergence of far-right fanaticism. The US has actively intervened in countries all over the world to upend leftist government or to install leaders that will engage with the US in a way that will benefit us economically, especially in the global south. 

This was a coup aided and abetted by the US government, a coup designed to oust the democratically-elected leader of one of the most successful leftist nations in human history. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of global politics over the last few decades would understand that.

[Lumi 3,512]

@OG Gaga Stan I never supported the coup and I will never support far-right or far-left regimes, it doesn't matter if it's Venezuela, Brazil, Trumpism or Cuba.

Though I disagree with you and I still think there's evidence that you can find about the fraudulent election in Bolivia, I have to say I really appreciate your response. Calling people dumb or just dismissing an opinion just for being different does nothing.

I still think that this situation is way more complicated than a US global conspiracy because I'm latinamerican and there are way more factors in our countries' decisions than just the US interests' being involved. "Third-world countries" are more than just puppets, we are people with feelings, worries and sometimes we feel like saying enough is enough.

What I'm trying to say is that critizing both sides and getting a new perspective of things is always healthy, I'll never be that kind of blind supporter. Thank you.

[Othon 34,299]

3 minutes ago, Lumi said:

there are way more factors in our countries' decisions than just the US interests' being involved. "Third-world countries" are more than just puppets, we are people with feelings, worries and sometimes we feel like saying enough is enough.

Of course there are. The US backs existing right-wing entities in the countries they want to interfere in. In this specific case, the coup is being backed by the US.

No one is saying the people in nations affected by US intervention don't have any sort of individual autonomy and that they don't make decisions for themselves. Of course they do. That's what leftist parties are largely focused on cultivating; independence from colonial forces and national self-sufficiency. But when right-wing parties have the backing of the most powerful military apparatus in the world (the US), it's nearly impossible to stand up to it. We're an oppressive force throughout the world.