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politics

Elizabeth Warren is now leading the 2020 polls

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Redstreak
24 minutes ago, Lilmonzter said:

I like Warren but she will falter if trump bring up her shortcomings 

Warren is a messy candidate she sometimes make stuff up to make herself look good. Misrepresentation of the facts.

The Pocohontas thing (obvious)

Sanders would be the better and more qualified choice against the melting candle. He's got zero baggage. You can throw anything at him and it's not going to stick.

 

Apparently what also ain't sticking to him is primary voters

 

told you so i give up GIF

Take a moment to think of just flexibility, love, and trust~
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Lion Heart

This might hurt Biden. 

There might be some moderates in the middle who initially supported Biden, but now that they see that Warren is 'safe' choice, they might move over to her. 

Also I think the Beto campaign is basically over. His fundraising has dried up and he's polling between 1-2% never moving beyond that. I think him literally saying that "I'M TAKING YOUR GUNS" tanked his campaign.

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OG Gaga Stan
1 hour ago, Redstreak said:

I mean in recent polls her share of voters who label themselves as "very left" are actually higher than Sanders so I don't really know how true that it is. To twist her support as just "lol girl power" is very... reductionist

I... never said that? Nor did I imply it? Or believe it? :air:

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HorusRa2
1 hour ago, SEANGT said:

I feel like this is taking this news story to the absolute extreme. Also...Trump lost the popular vote by 3 million & barely won the electoral college based on lies and not having a political record. Now he's on the record on things and isn't as believable when he double-talks and promises his BS. He's substantially weaker. All this fear about beating trump is....like....we have to have a good candidate, but it's not going to be harder than last time to beat him. It will be easier. Hillary had a million things against her. Warren...won't have anything near that. 

Anyway editing my post to add, I don't mind if a candidate changes their mind or clarifies their stance. There are a million ways to fundraise that I dont even understand. Right now she's only taking small donations. She wants to reform campaign finance law, election security, and government corruption as a top priority. That in mind, her taking other kinds of money while clarifying she won't be personally courting big donors makes sense to me. 

If that was her original stance and if she had been consistent on this issue, I would trust her a lot more. Unfortunately, she took big money in her reelection campaign. She then started a presidential campaign where she transferred the big donor money she didn't spend to fund her initial operations in Iowa. Then she came out and said she would not take big dollar money in the primary only and would do so in the general. Now, she's chosen to say she won't do it in the general in hopes of getting more sanders voters to come her way & I guarantee you she will find a way to take that big donor money if she became the nominee. So, yes, I take issue with her changing stances on this issue in particular. Because one day 3 or so months ago, she said she was fine with being corrupted by big money in order to beat donald trump and now she's saying she's not. She's literally saying this to get votes and if you refuse to see that, it's your prerogative. I see it for what it is and I can guarantee you she won't get my vote in the primary and she won't get my vote in the general election either. 

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HorusRa2
56 minutes ago, Redstreak said:

Apparently what also ain't sticking to him is primary voters

 

told you so i give up GIF

But he's convinced more people to donate their hard earned cash (&& more total cash) to his campaign than other candidates. Continue to try to dismiss his campaign but you'll be pressed when he over performs his polling because he changed what the primary electorate looks like. 

 

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Edited by HorusRa2

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Whispering
1 minute ago, HorusRa2 said:

If that was her original stance and if she had been consistent on this issue, I would trust her a lot more. Unfortunately, she took big money in her reelection campaign. She then started a presidential campaign where she transferred the big donor money she didn't spend to fund her initial operations in Iowa. Then she came out and said she would not take big dollar money in the primary only and would do so in the general. Now, she's chosen to say she won't do it in the general in hopes of getting more sanders voters to come her way & I guarantee you she will find a way to take that big donor money if she became the nominee. So, yes, I take issue with her changing stances on this issue in particular. Because one day 3 or so months ago, she said she was fine with being corrupted by big money in order to beat donald trump and now she's saying she's not. She's literally saying this to get votes and if you refuse to see that, it's your prerogative. I see it for what it is and I can guarantee you she won't get my vote in the primary and she won't get my vote in the general election either. 

 

Warren raised $35M from 2013-2018 for her successful Senate run.

Of that $35M, $700k (or 2%) came from PACs.

Of that $700k, $650k came from MoveOn.org (a progressive public policy advocate PAC)

Warren had $10M left over from her 2018 Senate run. 99.85% of which comes from individual contributors and a progressive advocate PAC.

 

 

She was never getting your vote. Nothing she does or doesn’t do is going to “get your vote”. 

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SEANGT
7 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

If that was her original stance and if she had been consistent on this issue, I would trust her a lot more. Unfortunately, she took big money in her reelection campaign. She then started a presidential campaign where she transferred the big donor money she didn't spend to fund her initial operations in Iowa. Then she came out and said she would not take big dollar money in the primary only and would do so in the general. Now, she's chosen to say she won't do it in the general in hopes of getting more sanders voters to come her way & I guarantee you she will find a way to take that big donor money if she became the nominee. So, yes, I take issue with her changing stances on this issue in particular. Because one day 3 or so months ago, she said she was fine with being corrupted by big money in order to beat donald trump and now she's saying she's not. She's literally saying this to get votes and if you refuse to see that, it's your prerogative. I see it for what it is and I can guarantee you she won't get my vote in the primary and she won't get my vote in the general election either. 

You're choosing to interpret everything Warren related in the worst possible way. You can't expect to always get a perfect candidate for president or any office. But you still need to choose one or one will be chosen for you. I hope you will change your mind. 

Also: 

-senate campaign contributions leftover. No matter where that came from....it's a tiny sliver of the amount of money she'll eventually raise, and is already a small percentage of her total primary dollars. I don't think it's reasonable to assume that whoever donated that money all those years ago has some kind of a hold over her. If what @Whispering said is true, then this being a problem is laughable. 

-She's said she doesn't believe in "unilateral disarmament" -- and for all we know she still believes that. The only thing the NYT article says is that she's clarified that she won't be spending time fundraising with big donors. it doesn't mean she's forgoing all PAC money, federal whatever money, etc. It actually doesn't even mean it's something different than what she was planning before. Her campaign has said as much. Warren won't be in the business of courting money and being beholden to them. But she's not going to refuse money that people want to give her to beat Trump. That's still true. ... and again -- her entire platform is anti-corruption, and her first priority is changing the rules so that shady money is completely out of politics. There's NO reason to think she's lying here. It's been the foundation of her entire life's work. 

 

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HorusRa2
11 minutes ago, Whispering said:

 

Warren raised $35M from 2013-2018 for her successful Senate run.

Of that $35M, $700k (or 2%) came from PACs.

Of that $700k, $650k came from MoveOn.org (a progressive public policy advocate PAC)

Warren had $10M left over from her 2018 Senate run. 99.85% of which comes from individual contributors and a progressive advocate PAC.

 

 

She was never getting your vote. Nothing she does or doesn’t do is going to “get your vote”. 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-2020.html

You're also correct. She was never going to get my vote. Because her political stances and her actions do not align with my values. I'm allowed to voice that opinion. 

 

@SEANGT - I will vote in my democratic primary for Sanders. If Sanders is not the nominee, I will be either writing in or voting Green party. The Democratic party continues to try to subdue the progressive wing of the party and then cry for unity in order to defeat the ugly republicans. IF you always come back to the party to vote for the candidate they choose for you, then the changes you want to see will never be implemented. The two party system has not benefited the working class of this country for decades. I'm not going to vote blue no matter who. I'm going to vote based on my values. 

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Whispering
6 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/09/us/politics/elizabeth-warren-2020.html

You're also correct. She was never going to get my vote. Because her political stances and her actions do not align with my values. I'm allowed to voice that opinion. 

 

@SEANGT - I will vote in my democratic primary for Sanders. If Sanders is not the nominee, I will be either writing in or voting Green party. The Democratic party continues to try to subdue the progressive wing of the party and then cry for unity in order to defeat the ugly republicans. IF you always come back to the party to vote for the candidate they choose for you, then the changes you want to see will never be implemented. The two party system has not benefited the working class of this country for decades. I'm not going to vote blue no matter who. I'm going to vote based on my values. 

In other words, voting for Trump.

If all your rights are taken away, you will know that you voted for it to happen. 

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HorusRa2
Just now, Whispering said:

In other words, voting for Trump.

If all your rights are taken away, you will know that you voted for it to happen. 

False. It will be on the people who keep nominated terrible candidates for president. To sit here after the 2016 election and to try and nominate Warren who has the same issues in terms of an electoral victory is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Warren may not be the worst candidate in the race (by my measure she's the third best behind Bernie and Tulsi); however, she is not the strong candidate we need in order to win in 2020. 

 

And for everyone thinking that 2020 is going to be easier because Trump's on the record for being so terrible, you're going to be in for an ugly surprise when you learn how many Americans will believe that man can do nothing wrong & won't listen to facts. If Warren was the more electable and more progressive candidate in the race, I would be vouching for her and trashing the other candidates in the race. But that's not the scenario we have today. 

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Economy
31 minutes ago, HorusRa2 said:

If that was her original stance and if she had been consistent on this issue, I would trust her a lot more. Unfortunately, she took big money in her reelection campaign. She then started a presidential campaign where she transferred the big donor money she didn't spend to fund her initial operations in Iowa. Then she came out and said she would not take big dollar money in the primary only and would do so in the general. Now, she's chosen to say she won't do it in the general in hopes of getting more sanders voters to come her way & I guarantee you she will find a way to take that big donor money if she became the nominee. So, yes, I take issue with her changing stances on this issue in particular. Because one day 3 or so months ago, she said she was fine with being corrupted by big money in order to beat donald trump and now she's saying she's not. She's literally saying this to get votes and if you refuse to see that, it's your prerogative. I see it for what it is and I can guarantee you she won't get my vote in the primary and she won't get my vote in the general election either. 

I really dont get the issue with big donnor money anyway

 

if your rich... does that mean u cannot have political opinions and support them with your means?

 

a person being rich does not automatically mean they are bad or corruptly motivated just like not all people of modest means are saints

 

Look at Bill Gates and the stuff he got involved in Africa to help with Polio and the sanation crisis which he not only spent Billions of his own wealth on but also personal time putting his brain to work to try to come up with solutions

 

He didnt even seek media coverage as a lot of this stuff the media found out more about only after he had already been spending time on

 

my point is rich people can donate simply to make a positive difference. Not all are trying to secure a candidate to keep their taxes low

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Morphine Prince

Voting third party in a two party system is throwing your vote away. 

No candidate will align with your views 100% 

Any Democrat in office will be better than Trump's second term. 

The friends I've had to bury, they keep me up at night
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Whispering
Just now, HorusRa2 said:

False. It will be on the people who keep nominated terrible candidates for president. To sit here after the 2016 election and to try and nominate Warren who has the same issues in terms of an electoral victory is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Warren may not be the worst candidate in the race (by my measure she's the third best behind Bernie and Tulsi); however, she is not the strong candidate we need in order to win in 2020. 

 

And for everyone thinking that 2020 is going to be easier because Trump's on the record for being so terrible, you're going to be in for an ugly surprise when you learn how many Americans will believe that man can do nothing wrong & won't listen to facts. If Warren was the more electable and more progressive candidate in the race, I would be vouching for her and trashing the other candidates in the race. But that's not the scenario we have today. 

False. It will be on the people who throw away their votes or don’t vote.

Your human rights are on the line. Elections have consequences. 

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OG Gaga Stan

Just to clarify, I'm voting for Warren if she's the nominee. I'm going to fight like hell to see Sanders get it before that point and to ensure that Sanders is her VP if she does end up the nominee, but if she gets it, I'm voting for her. 

EDIT: That being said, blaming 3rd party voters and non-voters for a candidate's inability to win an election is asinine, elitist BS. No candidate is owed a vote, and non voters are disproportionately black, brown, poor and queer. They don't vote because both parties have screwed them over by pushing for austerity and corporate welfare for decades. They're not the problem. They haven't failed any particular candidate. Our capitalist system failed them.

Edited by OG Gaga Stan
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SEANGT
2 hours ago, Lilmonzter said:

I like Warren but she will falter if trump bring up her shortcomings 

Warren is a messy candidate she sometimes make stuff up to make herself look good. Misrepresentation of the facts.

The Pocohontas thing (obvious)

Sanders would be the better and more qualified choice against the melting candle. He's got zero baggage. You can throw anything at him and it's not going to stick.

 

for anyone who's curious -- there's a reason major reputable publications like wapo, nyt, etc aren't picking up this story. It's because everything she's said on the matter is consistent. https://www.salon.com/2019/10/08/elizabeth-warrens-critics-forgot-pregnancy-is-9-months-long/

 

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