Lover approaching 1m pre-order

[StrawberryBlond 13,288]

1 minute ago, Thomas P said:

Rep only had like 800k preorders worldwide from what I remember. 

This really doesn’t mean anything other than that the album is gonna make huge numbers. 

That could just mean that her fans have gone all out with support because they're worried this album's going to flop so want her to at least have huge opening numbers. But that will fall apart after the first week. This is going to be one of those albums where the only people who really buy it are the fans because there's no massive hits that alert the public to why they should care.

[Spock 20,290]

18 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

It's not really the point. Music's biggest names should have no problem with pure sales. That's why they're big names. When your last 4 albums have sold over 1 million in their debut week in the US, that's an incredible bar and anything less signifies a big problem. It's true that the higher you climb, the harder you fall. Taylor's finally hit that wall. She couldn't go on having this kind of success forever and there was already signs of massive decay with Reputation when the only big hit was the lead single. She can't keep proving us wrong every single time. Every big name has to have an inevitable downfall, usually after the first decade of their career. I think her fans having this arrogant view of her as always being successful is what has finally done her in. The public have grown tired of their attitude and tired of her addiction to drama and having a big scandal every time she's got an album to promote. I thought Gaga fans would know better than to say that an artist is going to be successful forever. We've seen first hand how fickle they can be.

Yes it is the point, because you’re predicting how much of a flop it’s going to be based on the predictions. 

Virtually no one is moving pure sales as much as they used to. Big names or not, the numbers have been tragic and literally everyone has been reporting on how bad they are, especially physicals. The fact that Taylor is moving those numbers in 2019 IS a big deal, a so called music critic like yourself should know that. But i’ve been going back and forth with you for years now and know how biased you are lol. 

And it’s not arrogant when there are the receipts to actually back it up? Even the most die hard Taylor fan knows how the Reputation era went and how things are going with Lover, and literally no one is claiming they are a 1989 smash. It’s not our fault people like you have been predicting she would be over every era and always comes out on top one way or the other 

[Thomas P 18,377]

54 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

That could just mean that her fans have gone all out with support because they're worried this album's going to flop so want her to at least have huge opening numbers. But that will fall apart after the first week. This is going to be one of those albums where the only people who really buy it are the fans because there's no massive hits that alert the public to why they should care.

So you mean she’s gonna have her Born This Way era ? 

I don’t think that would be all bad

[StrawberryBlond 13,288]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

Yes it is the point, because you’re predicting how much of a flop it’s going to be based on the predictions. 

Virtually no one is moving pure sales as much as they used to. Big names or not, the numbers have been tragic and literally everyone has been reporting on how bad they are, especially physicals. The fact that Taylor is moving those numbers in 2019 IS a big deal, a so called music critic like yourself should know that. But i’ve been going back and forth with you for years now and know how biased you are lol. 

And it’s not arrogant when there are the receipts to actually back it up? Even the most die hard Taylor fan knows how the Reputation era went and how things are going with Lover, and literally no one is claiming they are a 1989 smash. It’s not our fault people like you have been predicting she would be over every era and always comes out on top one way or the other 

Ed, Adele, and Beyonce are good at pure sales and big sales and Gaga is as well. Taylor has always been great at pure sales, her fans are that dedicated, always have been. Someone like her should not be having figures such as these, hit singles or not. Taylor's one of the few who is still capable of big sales, we know this, her fans have reminded us of it enough times, so why are they still acting like she's doing something amazing this time around? Ed Sheeran sold 1.3 million pure copies worldwide a whole year after Divide came out, just to put that out there. I'm not biased, I'm calling out the facts here.

The arrogance I'm talking about is the belief that she'll always be on top and will never truly flop. It's just not realistic and this attitude is a big factor in what puts so many of us off.

1 hour ago, Thomas P said:

So you mean she’s gonna have her Born This Way era ? 

I don’t think that would be all bad

No, I mean she's going to have her ARTPOP era. So saying, she'll probably sell more than ARTPOP, but it'll be a flop on that kinda level. The kind of album that no one except the fans remembers and the artist moves on from it as if it never happened. To be fair, she kinda already did that with Speak Now. Until Reputation came along, that was her worst selling album and didn't produce a single hit that is remembered by the wider public today and I noticed that her fans seemed to be weirdly silent about it, like they didn't want to claim anything that wasn't a huge success. I think Taylor realised she could be on her way out and that's why she went full on chart pop after that and was rewarded with her first ever #1. She could have been over long before now if she'd just kept her music true to herself, let's put it that way. She certainly wouldn't be the international superstar she is today.

[Goodtimes12128 230]

5 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 The kind of album that no one except the fans remembers and the artist moves on from it as if it never happened. To be fair, she kinda already did that with Speak Now. Until Reputation came along, that was her worst selling album and didn't produce a single hit that is remembered by the wider public today and I noticed that her fans seemed to be weirdly silent about it, like they didn't want to claim anything that wasn't a huge success.

I heard Back to December in a Macy's last weekend and random strangers were bopping. That album also won 2 grammys for Mean. Your theory seems to be based on speculation??!!

[Thomas P 18,377]

28 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

No, I mean she's going to have her ARTPOP era. So saying, she'll probably sell more than ARTPOP, but it'll be a flop on that kinda level. The kind of album that no one except the fans remembers and the artist moves on from it as if it never happened. To be fair, she kinda already did that with Speak Now. Until Reputation came along, that was her worst selling album and didn't produce a single hit that is remembered by the wider public today and I noticed that her fans seemed to be weirdly silent about it, like they didn't want to claim anything that wasn't a huge success. I think Taylor realised she could be on her way out and that's why she went full on chart pop after that and was rewarded with her first ever #1. She could have been over long before now if she'd just kept her music true to herself, let's put it that way. She certainly wouldn't be the international superstar she is today.

She’s gonna sell 1mil first week, and it’s already breaking records on Apple Music. It’s unfair to label this a flop album before it’s been released anyway 

I swear you may be the most negative person on this site. When you give arguments that are cohesive and well defended and backed up, whether I agree or not, I respect them, but when you pull **** like this it just comes off as blatant personal bias. 

[Gizem 56]

On 8/20/2019 at 9:55 PM, StrawberryBlond said:

I opened this thread thinking "How is this possible? This is the least hyped, least anticipated Taylor album to date" then I saw that it meant "approaching 1m global sales." Oh, how the mighty have fallen. From selling 1m in the US in her debut week for 4 consecutive albums to being just under 1m on a world scale. This is truly going to be her biggest flop. But I don't get it, why wasn't it pushed harder? Me! was promoted decently but when it failed to go #1, her team should've pushed YNTCD much harder but instead, we get one solitary promo performance, no push for The Archer and Lover only gets put out a mere week before the album with no video yet. It's like they want her to fail. I'm also shocked she didn't put out concert tickets pre-album because she could've done with some blind sales at this rate. It'll be interesting to see how the album cycle plays out from here on in because if Lover fails, this era could be cut shorter than any Taylor era we've ever seen.

GGD anticipating something is very different from the billions of people who aren't part of our site, obviously. GGD anticipates stuff from artists that never sells. Constantly. And when it comes to songs going to #2, while that looks good purely from a  numbers perspective, what matters is how much the songs sold and how much they were liked and are still being talked about. Me! fizzled right out in weeks and people talked about YNTCD for about a week. Both songs dropped massively and only her fanbase seems to care about them right now. Look at these songs views and likes compared to the stuff from 1989 and even Reputation. Yeah, her subscribers are growing every year and yet her new stuff doesn't achieve the same/more views and likes? A song is a flop if it doesn't sell much, freefalls in the charts and isn't well liked or remembered. At Taylor's level, she shouldn't be having lead and sophomore singles that flop this bad. If it doesn't smash at the level she's at, she's in big trouble. I've seen it happen before.

Arent you still tired with your hopes? For the last 2 long years? I still remember how you said she won't even fill 1 croke park date cause even Madonna didn't, but she sold out 2 dates. You really never learn. 

Do you want me to say why they didn't push it harder? Because this is global PRE ORDER sales. "From 1 million first week USA sales to less than 1 million global" Are you even serious? Do you think she had 1 million pre order for reputation or 1989 and sold zero to open with 1 million same week? Reputation had 400k pre orders. According to this numbers she already reached 1 million global. Her %60-70 sales come from USA so it is at 500k USA "pre orders" at worst scenerio right now. She will open with 700k at worst. Probably 1 million sps. 

And do you want to know what happened since 2017? Digital sales %40, physical sales %30 dropped since than. So no, she won't sell 1.2 million forever even if she doesn't lose popularity. And how much you want her to downfall won't change how consistent she is. 

[Mana Mahad 1,749]

18 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

It's not really the point. Music's biggest names should have no problem with pure sales. That's why they're big names. When your last 4 albums have sold over 1 million in their debut week in the US, that's an incredible bar and anything less signifies a big problem. It's true that the higher you climb, the harder you fall. Taylor's finally hit that wall. She couldn't go on having this kind of success forever and there was already signs of massive decay with Reputation when the only big hit was the lead single. She can't keep proving us wrong every single time. Every big name has to have an inevitable downfall, usually after the first decade of their career. I think her fans having this arrogant view of her as always being successful is what has finally done her in. The public have grown tired of their attitude and tired of her addiction to drama and having a big scandal every time she's got an album to promote. I thought Gaga fans would know better than to say that an artist is going to be successful forever. We've seen first hand how fickle they can be.

But Taylor's young fanbase shouldn't have a  problem with streaming. But I do agree that her fans have moved on to other, younger artists like Ariana, Billie, even Halsey. It's the curse of being about to hit your 30's, lots of popstars have a troublesome era at this time. Now that she's about to turn 30, this is going to be the true test to see how long she can last.

I know it's pre-orders but her superfans are just that, they're very dedicated when it comes to pre-orders. But if she doesn't have the public on her side, those numbers are going to stall fast. And it's 1m from pre-orders on a world scale. She used to have 1m pre-orders from America alone. How is this not a downfall?

Are you stupid even if she sells 0 record after the first week it will stil be a success 

she will certainly have the biggest album of the year in pure sales I just one week but yes she is over  

 

[StrawberryBlond 13,288]

19 hours ago, Goodtimes12128 said:

I heard Back to December in a Macy's last weekend and random strangers were bopping. That album also won 2 grammys for Mean. Your theory seems to be based on speculation??!!

How do you know that they knew the song or even who sang it? You can bop to a song after hearing it for the first time. And most people don't know how many Grammies an artist has or what albums they won Grammies for unless it's their fave. Grammies won has never been an indication of how successful or remembered an album is, I don't know where you got that idea. It's not based on speculation, it's based on witnessing the album at the time and watching its trajectory over the years, as well as examining the entire development of Taylor's career. I've been studying her career since 2009, I can straight up tell you that Speak Now is one of her most forgotten albums by general public standards. Fearless, Red and 1989 are her only albums that actually have a couple of songs that are remembered by the public. Her numbers make you think everyone knows these songs but those sales are mostly fans.

18 hours ago, Thomas P said:

She’s gonna sell 1mil first week, and it’s already breaking records on Apple Music. It’s unfair to label this a flop album before it’s been released anyway 

I swear you may be the most negative person on this site. When you give arguments that are cohesive and well defended and backed up, whether I agree or not, I respect them, but when you pull **** like this it just comes off as blatant personal bias. 

Because I can see it coming a mile off. I was right about Reputation's success falling right off after her lead single, so an album that couldn't even produce a #1 single (and said singles are falling down the charts as we speak) is definitely going to struggle. It's just basic maths.

I'm far from the most negative person here. You're just focusing on my per hates. I'm realistic about Taylor when there's logic behind it. I knew her albums up until recently would be successes and I never claimed otherwise. But this is the first one that I think is actually going to struggle. I don't throw around a theory like this based on nothing. If anyone's biased right now, it's you, for you, as a fan, are determined to view this album as a hit when it's clearly displaying no signs of such. You say I'm labelling it as a flop before its even been released, but you're saying it's going to be a hit before it's even released, so if anything, aren't we equal? You don't seem to realise that big sales in the first week generally mean an album will sharply tail off after that.

14 hours ago, Gizem said:

Arent you still tired with your hopes? For the last 2 long years? I still remember how you said she won't even fill 1 croke park date cause even Madonna didn't, but she sold out 2 dates. You really never learn. 

Do you want me to say why they didn't push it harder? Because this is global PRE ORDER sales. "From 1 million first week USA sales to less than 1 million global" Are you even serious? Do you think she had 1 million pre order for reputation or 1989 and sold zero to open with 1 million same week? Reputation had 400k pre orders. According to this numbers she already reached 1 million global. Her %60-70 sales come from USA so it is at 500k USA "pre orders" at worst scenerio right now. She will open with 700k at worst. Probably 1 million sps. 

And do you want to know what happened since 2017? Digital sales %40, physical sales %30 dropped since than. So no, she won't sell 1.2 million forever even if she doesn't lose popularity. And how much you want her to downfall won't change how consistent she is. 

Pardon me for thinking Taylor couldn't fill Croke Park. That place is massive and she had never done a stadium date in Ireland until that moment and didn't even have much of a presence in Ireland until that moment. Logistically, I was hardly off the mark.

As I said, her fans are likely pulling out all the stops with pre-ordering because they see this era isn't going as well as hoped and are showing support by pre-ordering. Happens all the time. Fans always feel tempted to show ultimate support when their fave isn't slaying.

I never said she wasn't consistent. But this particular consistency may be about to change to lower numbers.

3 hours ago, Mana Mahad said:

Are you stupid even if she sells 0 record after the first week it will stil be a success 

she will certainly have the biggest album of the year in pure sales I just one week but yes she is over

Sure, she'll have great first week sales and 1m as simple as that, but no, if she stopped selling any copies after her debut week, that's not a success at all. Think about it. And I didn't say that she was over, just that her popularity has taken a massive knock and may never go back to the way it was.

[Gizem 56]

54 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

How do you know that they knew the song or even who sang it? You can bop to a song after hearing it for the first time. And most people don't know how many Grammies an artist has or what albums they won Grammies for unless it's their fave. Grammies won has never been an indication of how successful or remembered an album is, I don't know where you got that idea. It's not based on speculation, it's based on witnessing the album at the time and watching its trajectory over the years, as well as examining the entire development of Taylor's career. I've been studying her career since 2009, I can straight up tell you that Speak Now is one of her most forgotten albums by general public standards. Fearless, Red and 1989 are her only albums that actually have a couple of songs that are remembered by the public. Her numbers make you think everyone knows these songs but those sales are mostly fans.

Because I can see it coming a mile off. I was right about Reputation's success falling right off after her lead single, so an album that couldn't even produce a #1 single (and said singles are falling down the charts as we speak) is definitely going to struggle. It's just basic maths.

I'm far from the most negative person here. You're just focusing on my per hates. I'm realistic about Taylor when there's logic behind it. I knew her albums up until recently would be successes and I never claimed otherwise. But this is the first one that I think is actually going to struggle. I don't throw around a theory like this based on nothing. If anyone's biased right now, it's you, for you, as a fan, are determined to view this album as a hit when it's clearly displaying no signs of such. You say I'm labelling it as a flop before its even been released, but you're saying it's going to be a hit before it's even released, so if anything, aren't we equal? You don't seem to realise that big sales in the first week generally mean an album will sharply tail off after that.

Pardon me for thinking Taylor couldn't fill Croke Park. That place is massive and she had never done a stadium date in Ireland until that moment and didn't even have much of a presence in Ireland until that moment. Logistically, I was hardly off the mark.

As I said, her fans are likely pulling out all the stops with pre-ordering because they see this era isn't going as well as hoped and are showing support by pre-ordering. Happens all the time. Fans always feel tempted to show ultimate support when their fave isn't slaying.

I never said she wasn't consistent. But this particular consistency may be about to change to lower numbers.

Sure, she'll have great first week sales and 1m as simple as that, but no, if she stopped selling any copies after her debut week, that's not a success at all. Think about it. And I didn't say that she was over, just that her popularity has taken a massive knock and may never go back to the way it was.

My point was not just Ireland dates. You are always negative about her future achievements even when they are not supported by you with facts. 

How was reputation not a huge success? It was "biggest album of the year" at bilboard year end charts.  And your "short success" thing doesn't mean anything. You are out of touch with industry. We are in the streaming era. Albums doesn't last years anymore. Especially without stream support(reputaton didn't). Reputation sold 100k 6 weeks back to back. It sold 250k second week, more than this years biggest debuts except ariana and jonas b(used bundles). We are talking about 8.5 million sps selling album. 

According to your logic, if someone sells 100k for 15 weeks, ıt is more success than selling 1 million first week and 2.5 million total. It doesn't work like that. 

Her fans don't pre order albums because she had bad charting singles. Did this even make sense to you while saying it. We don't own her anything. We buy because we believe ıt worths. And ı believe we were not wrong about that. I heard most of the album, she released one of the best of her career. Again. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,288]

33 minutes ago, Gizem said:

My point was not just Ireland dates. You are always negative about her future achievements even when they are not supported by you with facts. 

How was reputation not a huge success? It was "biggest album of the year" at bilboard year end charts.  And your "short success" thing doesn't mean anything. You are out of touch with industry. We are in the streaming era. Albums doesn't last years anymore. Especially without stream support(reputaton didn't). Reputation sold 100k 6 weeks back to back. It sold 250k second week, more than this years biggest debuts except ariana and jonas b(used bundles). We are talking about 8.5 million sps selling album. 

According to your logic, if someone sells 100k for 15 weeks, ıt is more success than selling 1 million first week and 2.5 million total. It doesn't work like that. 

Her fans don't pre order albums because she had bad charting singles. Did this even make sense to you while saying it. We don't own her anything. We buy because we believe ıt worths. And ı believe we were not wrong about that. I heard most of the album, she released one of the best of her career. Again. 

When was I actually negative about any of her achievements? I don't think she's deserving of all her achievements but I wasn't unrealistic about them.

It wasn't a huge success because it's her worst selling album to date (to have a 4.5 million seller immediately following a 10.1 million seller is a massive downgrade), LWYMMD was the only successful single, everything else was largely ignored by the public save for one or two promo singles which debuted in the top 10 and then tumbled down. The super-chart friendly Delicate couldn't crack top 10. Even the Ed and Future collab which was clearly placed there to save the album if things went south, didn't even go top 10. She sold all those tour tickets because of how she encouraged her fans to buy merch to get them further up the queue. Compare all this to 1989's 10.1 million sales, 3 #1's and 2 top 10's and millions of copies sold of every song and massive YouTube views and likes and Reputation's success pales in comparison. Not a flop, but a massive underperformance for sure. It was the first sign that there was trouble ahead yet her fans refused to see it.

Yes, it makes perfect sense. Fans rally round their fave when they're failing in the public's perception. They're making sure to show ultimate support to prove the haters wrong. Problem is, it's now going to make it all the more likely that the album's really going to tail off afterwards if this many people are buying it immediately. And if you think it's great, fine. But that's not the point I'm making. The sales of the singles show that the public aren't as enamoured by it as you are and if the public aren't on your side, you will never smash.

[Goodtimes12128 230]

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I've been studying her career since 2009 

Study some more!! LMAO

[Gizem 56]

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

When was I actually negative about any of her achievements? I don't think she's deserving of all her achievements but I wasn't unrealistic about them.

It wasn't a huge success because it's her worst selling album to date (to have a 4.5 million seller immediately following a 10.1 million seller is a massive downgrade), LWYMMD was the only successful single, everything else was largely ignored by the public save for one or two promo singles which debuted in the top 10 and then tumbled down. The super-chart friendly Delicate couldn't crack top 10. Even the Ed and Future collab which was clearly placed there to save the album if things went south, didn't even go top 10. She sold all those tour tickets because of how she encouraged her fans to buy merch to get them further up the queue. Compare all this to 1989's 10.1 million sales, 3 #1's and 2 top 10's and millions of copies sold of every song and massive YouTube views and likes and Reputation's success pales in comparison. Not a flop, but a massive underperformance for sure. It was the first sign that there was trouble ahead yet her fans refused to see it.

Yes, it makes perfect sense. Fans rally round their fave when they're failing in the public's perception. They're making sure to show ultimate support to prove the haters wrong. Problem is, it's now going to make it all the more likely that the album's really going to tail off afterwards if this many people are buying it immediately. And if you think it's great, fine. But that's not the point I'm making. The sales of the singles show that the public aren't as enamoured by it as you are and if the public aren't on your side, you will never smash.

 

Firstly ı said her future achievements. You always say she won't be able since 2017 but here we are. Excuses and excuses. 

1989 was her peak. She didn't or probably won't be able to reach at again. It doesn't make reputation, best selling album of the year make less successful. So Adele flopped because 25 sold %50 less than 21? 

You said me and yntcd was not success because their peak doesn't matter but after that you say delicate was not success because it didn't enter top 10 when it was 26th biggest hot100 song of the year. You eat your own words. 

Reputation tour sold because her massive consistent album sales. 5 album became top 2 best selling album of the year back to back. 3 of them being best selling ones. She is secong biggest hot200 female artist of all time and with just only 6 album. 

Least selling one? Did you realized how album sales dropped last 6 years? Red was not best selling one but reputation was with less sales. Because industry changed. You can't compare sales of 2012 album and 2018 album etc. This is why we don't have diamond albums anymore. 

This is why big singles doesn't matter at the end or makes your eras big. Album units does. Singles are meant to move more album units. This is why ariana with her so called big era can't fill 1 stadium but Taylor did 8 stadium with "no hit era" speak now. You need to search more about industry, otherwise the things you said are totally out of touch with industry. 

 

[StrawberryBlond 13,288]

On 8/22/2019 at 7:40 PM, Gizem said:

Firstly ı said her future achievements. You always say she won't be able since 2017 but here we are. Excuses and excuses. 

1989 was her peak. She didn't or probably won't be able to reach at again. It doesn't make reputation, best selling album of the year make less successful. So Adele flopped because 25 sold %50 less than 21? 

You said me and yntcd was not success because their peak doesn't matter but after that you say delicate was not success because it didn't enter top 10 when it was 26th biggest hot100 song of the year. You eat your own words. 

Reputation tour sold because her massive consistent album sales. 5 album became top 2 best selling album of the year back to back. 3 of them being best selling ones. She is secong biggest hot200 female artist of all time and with just only 6 album. 

Least selling one? Did you realized how album sales dropped last 6 years? Red was not best selling one but reputation was with less sales. Because industry changed. You can't compare sales of 2012 album and 2018 album etc. This is why we don't have diamond albums anymore. 

This is why big singles doesn't matter at the end or makes your eras big. Album units does. Singles are meant to move more album units. This is why ariana with her so called big era can't fill 1 stadium but Taylor did 8 stadium with "no hit era" speak now. You need to search more about industry, otherwise the things you said are totally out of touch with industry.

I was using numbers to help define things seeing as you were too. It's generally a bad sign when you're a big name in America yet struggle to get a top 10 hit. And 26th biggest song? Do you really think that's an achievement worth bragging about?

It's not about how much the music industry has changed. If you're a big name, you shouldn't be affected, that's why they're the anomalies.

But in a way, albums that sold more singles are the ones that are remembered because the average member of the public doesn't remember entire albums. They define an era by the singles, not the album tracks. And successful singles are what keeps the public going to watch you on tour. This is me being very in touch with the industry, on the contrary.

[Gizem 56]

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said: