#NotMyAriel trends after black actress was cast to play the Little Mermaid

[Saeed 1,937]

Not sure if mythical fish have ethnicities like regular humans do but I'm just going to post this screenshot from The Little Mermaid you all love

 

[aaronyoji 2,013]

but you know, racism isn't systematic against people of color here in america right?!?! because its not like we have an actual law that prohibits black actresses from portraying fictional characters so therefore....... 

[Glamourpuss 29,062]

@StrawberryBlondI just wanted to say that I get what you are trying to convey. It's a shame that you've had to go around in circles because some people want to focus on the parts that make it sound like you're being selfish and racist. Some people just want to argue semantics and ignore the bigger picture. 

I'm blonde but aware of the troubles that redheads have had. It's obviously not the same as what black people have had to endure but unfairness to fair skinned, red headed people does exist. I totally get your point and why you were using that as a way to explain yourself. Because gingers are bullied and they face persecution all the time. We have kiss a ginger day as a (unofficial) national holiday ffs, there's the running joke that gingers have no soul, and in the UK there only needs to be a heatwave for the memes to come out. 

[Rio 5,088]

I think they should let it be. It's gonna be a great film! However, I do think the executives have only just picked her to seem more inclusive in order to give a black girls more opportunities within the industry. Which is good. But this diversity casting will start to get ridiculous sooner or later, it needs to be implemented subtly and cleverly.

but even with the Annie remake the other year...😫😫 talk about MESSING with an image! Annie is ginger.

Ariel is white and has long red hair. So I'm not the biggest fan of the casting selection, but it's not the end of the world and bitches shouldn't be using this to be write up racist petitions. Petitioning to fire a girl who got her first huge breakthrough role is just evil

[fede ARTPOP 6,423]

Pp

On 7/5/2019 at 2:56 PM, River said:

How many Alices do we have? 

But none is Black, and all of them are Blond. 

[fede ARTPOP 6,423]

11 hours ago, giskardsb said:

Red hair is not exactly endemic to Denmark or the carribean or anywhere else the story might have taken place. Ariel as a redhead was invented by Disney.  

and sorry but the louder and longer some of you argue that Ariel HAS to be white the more and more racist you actually sound, whether you actually are or not.

Them casting the oposite of “White” got into racism and ethnicity's drama,,just see Disney history every Princess and Prince were pale White. 

[Andreu 37,216]

9 hours ago, Saeed said:

Not sure if mythical fish have ethnicities like regular humans do but I'm just going to post this screenshot from The Little Mermaid you all love

 

hold on, GOOFY IS THERE????????

[Glamourpuss 29,062]

15 minutes ago, Andreu said:

hold on, GOOFY IS THERE????????

Well spotted. It's an Easter egg. 

[fede ARTPOP 6,423]

17 minutes ago, Andreu said:

hold on, GOOFY IS THERE????????

Found it LMAO

[Sepsami 17,782]

I mean I could understand the initial reactions, but actually going this far is beyond ridiculous. Like, get over it. Times change.

[ShayCristoforo 10,565]

On 7/5/2019 at 3:48 PM, StrawberryBlond said:

She frequently gets criticised as weak but I've never seen her that way. I explained in another thread how Ariel was the first truly proactive Disney princess and she was praised for this upon the original release. She thinks differently to everyone else in Atlantica regarding humans, she's not contented with the knowledge among her safe boundaries and wants to educate herself on new things ("I'm ready to know what the people know, ask them my questions and get some answers") and she fights for the man she loves and the life she wants, even if it's outwith the norm that she was raised with. She even helps out. She risks her life saving Flounder from a shark, she saved Eric from drowning on the sinking ship, she even helped in the final battle by pulling Ursula back so that the trident's zap was directed away from Eric, resulting in Flotsam and Jetsam getting zapped. How many Disney princesses save their love interest not once but twice? She and Eric even spend a notable amount of time together before marrying, the first ever Disney romance that wasn't based on 24 hour love. Ok, there are stronger women in Disney (not many on her level, though) and of course there will be changes to make her not such a submissive entity when she can't speak but I think her weakness as a character is really over-exaggerated. She heralded in a huge change for Disney women, she was the first ever proactive princess. Immediately afterwards were the similarly headstrong and intelligent characters of Belle, Jasmine and Pocahontas as well as similarly strong-willed non-princesses like Esmeralda, Meg, Mulan and Jane. People put down Ariel without realising that without her, they wouldn't have all the characters they love today. Not only this, Little Mermaid was the Disney picture that would decide if Disney was going to continue making movies. Not many people realise, but Disney went through a really low commercial point in the 70's and especially the 80's. They weren't making many movies and most were just niche success. Little Mermaid was going to be the big decider at the close of the 80's if Disney was going to continue. It was a huge success and the rest is history. So, we have Ariel to thank for a lot.

Of course some of them will be, but more often than not, I've seen blind praise be given to diversity casting even if the one who gave the praise has no connection to the situation, or even if they have seen it, aren't even fans of it. They just want to see white characters changed for no reason other than furthering an agenda to oust as many white characters from media as possible. I've seen similar glee every time there's another instance in media of a black person replacing a white person. It's nothing to do with talent, intelligence or personality, they're just happy to see a POC of any description take over from a white person. And it is literal glee I have seen, even as far as saying "I hope her black genes go into overdrive and kick these pasty ass white genes to the curb" in the case of a mixed race pregnancy. It's disturbing how such people think they are on the side of acceptance and love and even more disturbing that they're being pandered to right now.

I've been over this a few times now but it's so clear that the original was trying to be a bit of everything. Like many American adaptions of non-American works, they change the location to somewhere American looking and give people American accents. It helps to appeal to their demographics, being one of the biggest countries in the world. And they probably thought a Jamaican accented crab would be a great piece of comedy relief. Despite the aesthetics, there was no getting away with the fact that there was royalty on the shore and it was overseen by whites. That suggested that this place could be just about anywhere, likely completely fictionalised. And let's not forget that at this time, Europeans had taken over Caribbean islands for themselves - check out how Pirates of the Caribbean starts for proof of that. It's not even mentioned on any official pages where this movie is set, so it suggests it's up to your interpretation. I don't really mind where it was set though - the movie should stick with the race they assigned to the characters. Why is it suddenly the case that only natives can live in certain areas only when there's potential whitewashing afoot? No one says that in reverse.

Of course and she can sing very well. But it just seems that aesthetics are at the forefront of everyone's mind when it comes to adapations and for good reason - they're all about nostalgia. Before certain movies have even been announced, people are demanding that Mulan be Chinese, that Pocahontas be Native American and so forth because the ethnicity of a character is very important to POC. But apparently, white people don't deserve to have their originals free from alteration, they're not allowed the entitlement of assuming that their white characters will automatically remain the same. Movies have been dubbed with actual singers for years if the worst came to the worst. But we know there are redheads out there who look like Ariel who can sing. They've played her on Broadway, for crying out loud. Don't tell me someone who looked like Ariel with singing ability was that hard to find.

True, maybe she's not totally weak, but could definitely be made stronger. Which is why I'm excited to see a black woman playing her. The visual history (and contemporary context) that a black woman carries is strongly akin to this kind of narrative; voiceless, limited, manipulated, misunderstood, etc. And as I've said, Ariel's whole character could use a bit of a face lift, and I think the racial change is meaningful.

Disney is notorious for historical and cultural inaccuracies, and millions of people have accepted those inaccuracies, embracing them as beloved stories. So this current objective to challenge a black Ariel kind of just screams white narcissism. As if saying: alterations are okay, as long as they're white oriented. Maybe that's not the intention, but that's the implication.   
Side note, not many people were outraged when they made Jason Momoa as Aquaman lol. 

[River 108,429]

8 hours ago, fede ARTPOP said:

Pp

But none is Black, and all of them are Blond. 

most of the actresses who played Alice has brown hair and not blond, it's mostly since Disney's movie that it became blond.

American McGee's Alice is brunette and gothic.

The real Alice that Alice is based on her didn't have a blond hair

And there's already an adaption of Black Alice

https://www.amazon.com/Alices-Wonderful-Adventures-Africa-Taylor-ebook/dp/B0075D55AA

You can buy it and enjoy a different kind of Alice.

In 2018 Pirelli's calendar was an African American adaption of Alice In Wonderland

https://kreolmagazine.com/culture/history-and-culture/the-story-behind-pirellis-all-black-alice-in-wonderland/#.XSOeZI9MHcc

 

 

 

 

[StrawberryBlond 14,331]

21 hours ago, Craven Moorecox said:

@StrawberryBlond just because things are better than how they were in the past doesn’t mean that the present is good. A lot of places and people still have bits and pieces of the past mindset. I live in the southern part of the US, and I see on a daily bases “in your face” and subtle acts of prejudice and racial bias from conservatives, liberals, college students, and people I’m friends with. So it irk me went people make comments about how things are great for all now or things against needed diversity. I’m not that attach to Ariel so I didn’t see the big deal of it, but I do understand the disappointment. Sometimes these shady and misinformed comments on gagadaily can make you go on tangent. I apologize for addressing a lot of other people comments to you. These racial threads blow up fast and a spiral out control quickly. I disagree, but understand your reasoning now and I want to apologize for misinterpreting you and for being a **** 

I'm not saying everything's great now or ever will be truly equal. But we've made huge leaps and I just want to see them be recognised more. I don't see how doing the same thing to white characters that was once done to black characters is progressive, quite the opposite. I want to see POC given their own stories so they can make their own legacy, so they don't have to be unfairly compared and contrasted. The aim is to be the original, not the remake. Here is a video of a black man talking about this and he said exactly the things I was thinking. See if hearing this makes it a bit more palatable, especially from 3:36:

Well, thanks you for re-evaluating your opinion on me, it means a lot. I don't ask that people change their views to fit mine, just that they understand and respect them.

21 hours ago, M Monstre said:

The setting would only be of high importance if it was crucial to the story, regardless if it was about a POC. Yes, while characters like Tiana, Mulan, and Jasmine are women of color, the fact of the matter is that their race and ethnicity is directly tied into the story. Merida is a white princess, yet her story is tied in with her ethnicity and hertiage. In that case, you can't make Merida black or Asian or anything other ethnicity. 

I'm also not saying that The Little Mermaid should  have its aesthetics changed, but it's clear that Disney is taking the liberty to change some stuff, so why not try and make it unique? If the whole point of a movie is to tell a good story, then why does it matter if she's black? Like I said in the beginning, as long as she does a good job, and as long as the story is presented well, it ultimately doesn't matter. 

Well, I'm glad you don't think Merida should change for these reasons.

So, what if the movie doesn't turn out as well, whether it's for Halle's ability in the role or any other changes or effects and whatnot? Does race still play a role or was it just a good film remade badly? Because regardless of how it turns out, they can't just make another one 2 years later with a white Ariel and have things be ok, the entire image of that movie will be tainted. This might be the one that, years from now, people will ask why they made these changes and it brings down Disney's credibility. And if they don't do more race swapping in future movies, it'll seem like this movie was unfairly picked on for no apparent reason.

20 hours ago, Didymus said:

You're thinking about it way too hard though Nobody's saying Ariel was not really white in previous adaptations, just that in new adaptations of the same character her skin color is of absolutely no importance That's a completely different thing and it has only very little to do with "progressivism".

The chances of the actress being a natural redhead were close to zero though Like, sorry but you can't use that now.

Not even Ariel was a redhead, she had red ****ing hair that no one ever had, except as a Halloween wig. I never even thought of Ariel as a redhead until all of these comments. For me she was just a fairytale figure with red hair

She might still have that hair color in the movie though, that has almost nothing to do with casting, so I don't think it's fair to bring that up so you can switch between the racial and the hair color argument whenever it suits you in the conversation...

Plenty of people are now saying because she's a fictional being, she has no race and are denying her clear whiteness.

Why were they close to zero? There are redhaired actresses around. It could've been the chance to give a new one a breakthrough, even more of a win if they went all the way to the origins and selected a Danish redhead to really represent the culture of its creator.

Ariel's hair is this unnatural shade because she's a cartoon. Loads of animated characters, particularly from this time period, had unnatural tones for some reason. I don't know why they couldn't just mix orange with white to create something more realistic but they opted for garish reds the majority of the time, even in cartoons that were meant to be "real." The funny thing is, they created a natural tone with Jessica Rabbit just one year previously so I don't know why they couldn't do it again! I guess they wanted Ariel's bright hair to stand out and compliment the bright colours of the rest of the film, it didn't mean that wasn't supposed to be her natural colour. All her sisters seemed to have natural hair colours. But it's easy to not think of her as having red hair when you didn't grow up with red hair and had no one else to look up to.

There's a big chance Disney will let her keep her natural black hair if they really want to diversify. Casting a black girl has left a huge question mark over that element and nobody's officially announced what's going to happen, so it's understandable that we want to speculate until we get a confirmation. It's not that I'm switching between arguments to suit me, it's just whatever's relevant depending on the reply and sometimes both elements mix.

17 hours ago, Earthling said:

@StrawberryBlond

Remember that time they made a movie about a princess who literally embodies and represents being a beautiful archetype of a Disney princess AND they gave her very clearly distinct red-hair (strawberry blonde if you will), pale skin and blue eyes.

Good call, I never even considered that one. I never saw Enchanted and the thing is, it's not one of the most successful Disney films, 11 years later, I hear nobody talking about this and the animated princess doesn't even show up in official princess line ups or merchandise that I can see, so you can understand why I didn't even remember it. Disney only keeps movies relevant in years to come if they were huge originally and this one wasn't. And considering how long ago it was, perhaps we need another one for the next generation? But good for picking up on this one.

16 hours ago, Brooklyn Knight said:

race is a nuanced topic, and to say that casting a white person in a role intended to be a black person is inherently different than a black person playing a white role, in my opinion, and it has largely to do with the fact that there are rarely many black characters to begin with in modern media. Sure, in the last few years there has been AWARENESS around this fact and casting has been more diverse, but again, this is still something that is recent in a long history where blackface exists and black bodies and voices were erased. If you don't or can't see it from that perspective than there isn't much more to talk about... 

now as far as the "natural hair" argument, and it being equal footing as you having red hair... I am going to have to CLOWN you for that. Not sure where in the world you are located, but in the US, just within the past MONTH California was the FIRST state to ban discrimination against hairstyles, something that historically has been used against black individuals, reducing their hairstyles to tired and dated racial stereotypes. This is a national ( and I daresay worldwide) issue. I truthfully don't see in what instance you, an ( I assume) white individual with RED hair, can say that you face some adversity on any level similar to those of black people. Ultimately white people have a privilege that grants them almost unwarranted access to the world compared to most black people simply because of the color of their skin. I'm not invalidating your experience, or saying that you HAVENT been treated differently, I think its just very showing of your PRIVILEGE that you think your experience and that of a black person are in any way similar

Sure, I know why the dynamic changes and I respect that. But in that case, it can also be argued that any non-redhead playing a redhead role isn't like a blonde playing a brunette role and vice versa. We've had our hair colour erased too many times now. Just learned there was another one with a redhaired character being replaced by a black woman in Teen Titans. Between that and 2014 Annie remake and blond Ron Weasley in HP And The Cursed Child, we've had enough of having our hair colour changed and don't want to potentially have another one.

I notice how you say that you aren't invalidating my experience just after trying to do precisely that. Perhaps the reason why you don't have any idea about the intricacies and struggles with having red hair is because it isn't held up as an issue to take seriously or even acknowledge that there is an issue. I've only seen one black woman ever briefly mention the similar hair struggles redheads go through and other than that, nothing. Maybe if I give you a bit of context, it would make you think differently. In the middle ages, redheads were mistrusted and accused of witchcraft and burned, with stereotypes spreading that they had immoral sexual deviancy. In medieval Italy and Spain, red hair was associated with being Jewish because their redness was was a sign of their heretical nature and rejection of Jesus (don't ask me why) which is why Judas was depicted as redhaired in much Italian and Spanish art. Famous authors including Shakespeare and Dickens routinely used red hair to identify Jewish characters and made them villainous and the idea spread into modern Soviet Russia. To this day, red hair discrimination is by far the worst in the UK, where I'm from, for reasons unknown although I've seen the association with red hair and being Irish (the two countries have never always gotten along) and redhaired Romans persecuting the early British Isles as suggestions. In the UK, there have been cases of extreme bullying and harrassment for red hair which have resulted in suicide and court cases, invariably and even a few actual assaults and murders. Then there's the inevitable inappropriate sexual jokes thrown at us that never get asked of anyone else, jokes about us having no soul in the likes of South Park, a teenager making a Kick A Ginger FB group that attracted 5k members and a supermarket making a Christmas card that depicted a redhaired kid on Santa's lap with the caption "Santa loves all kids, even ginger ones." Even one of the world's largest sperm banks said that they would no longer be accepting donations from redhaired men due to women stating that they did not want them.

The actual hair itself is also similar to natural black hair in the sense that its consistency is very thick and unruly and cannot naturally grow straight. I remember every girl in my class had soft hair that was super silky when washed and a comb could glide straight through it but my hair was never like that. I hated how my mum insisted on using a comb for my hair when I was little because it just couldn't contend with my very unruly hair and brushes are the only thing that can truly tame it. If you see a redhead with straight hair, its been physically tampered with because ours cannot grow like that. Many people have said to me over the years to straighten it. A lot of redheads dye their hair at some point in an attempt to be "normal" and some do it so well you'd never know they were anything else previously because they want to erase their redhaired past. Over the years in high school, I had so many pieces of chewing gum and torn up bus ticket clippings put in my hair that I became hyper aware wherever I was walking and took extreme measures to ensure it never happened again. None of that ever happened to anyone else of any other hair colour. Because I don't put any products in my hair and keep it completely natural, my long, unruly red hair is seen as quite a spectacle to many and yes, so many touch it without permission, happened multiple times this month alone, so its by no means solely a black problem. When you've frequently been the only person in a room with hair like mine, I can totally imagine how it must feel like to have natural black hair and I view my hair as a social/political statement as well.

So, there's my analysis. I don't know if you'll agree but I hope you're now a bit more enlightened about something that really isn't talked about.

12 hours ago, aaronyoji said:

but you know, racism isn't systematic against people of color here in america right?!?! because its not like we have an actual law that prohibits black actresses from portraying fictional characters so therefore....... 

I don't know if you're being sarcastic with that last sentence but what law's this? Black actresses have portrayed fictional characters before, so...

7 hours ago, Glamourpuss said:

@StrawberryBlondI just wanted to say that I get what you are trying to convey. It's a shame that you've had to go around in circles because some people want to focus on the parts that make it sound like you're being selfish and racist. Some people just want to argue semantics and ignore the bigger picture. 

I'm blonde but aware of the troubles that redheads have had. It's obviously not the same as what black people have had to endure but unfairness to fair skinned, red headed people does exist. I totally get your point and why you were using that as a way to explain yourself. Because gingers are bullied and they face persecution all the time. We have kiss a ginger day as a (unofficial) national holiday ffs, there's the running joke that gingers have no soul, and in the UK there only needs to be a heatwave for the memes to come out. 

Thanks so much for your kind words, it means a lot, especially when a non-redhead gets it. So many people can't see outside themselves, it seems.

1 hour ago, ShayCristoforo said:

True, maybe she's not totally weak, but could definitely be made stronger. Which is why I'm excited to see a black woman playing her. The visual history (and contemporary context) that a black woman carries is strongly akin to this kind of narrative; voiceless, limited, manipulated, misunderstood, etc. And as I've said, Ariel's whole character could use a bit of a face lift, and I think the racial change is meaningful.

Disney is notorious for historical and cultural inaccuracies, and millions of people have accepted those inaccuracies, embracing them as beloved stories. So this current objective to challenge a black Ariel kind of just screams white narcissism. As if saying: alterations are okay, as long as they're white oriented. Maybe that's not the intention, but that's the implication.   
Side note, not many people were outraged when they made Jason Momoa as Aquaman lol. 

But any woman can be those traits you mentioned! I really try not to associate personality traits with any race, I think we're all capable of expressing the same traits.

Many people put down Pocahontas now for its inaccuracies as we're in a new time now and a movie like that could never be made today. It's more a case of "just keep the story as it was originally," nothing more, nothing less. Plenty of people have got het up over other, non-racial related changed that have occurred in these remakes, we just want a faithful adaption in every way, no more, no less. I don't think people were as annoyed about Aquaman because he isn't as beloved and had big emotional attachments to him like Ariel does. When a character's alteration has caused this much uproar, its probably safe to say that their appearance is highly important for some reason (in this case, it gave redheads positive representation and is a major icon for them) and that they should have been left as they were. I don't think Disney realised how much they've screwed this one up with their vision vs. what the public wanted.

[Borislshere 52,789]

It’s so funny seeing people get upset “I want redhead representation!!” Do people not realize no one is born with Ariel red hair?? Regardless of whoever it was they chose to play the role (yes, ginger actresses included) they would’ve made them wear a wig. Halle WILL wear a wig. 

 

[Reality 73,890]

52 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Well, I'm glad you don't think Merida should change for these reasons.

So, what if the movie doesn't turn out as well, whether it's for Halle's ability in the role or any other changes or effects and whatnot? Does race still play a role or was it just a good film remade badly? Because regardless of how it turns out, they can't just make another one 2 years later with a white Ariel and have things be ok, the entire image of that movie will be tainted. This might be the one that, years from now, people will ask why they made these changes and it brings down Disney's credibility. And if they don't do more race swapping in future movies, it'll seem like this movie was unfairly picked on for no apparent reason.

If the movie is genuinely a bad movie (regardless of the race of the actress), then it'll just be a bad movie. What you stated could be used for just about any movie with any cast about any subject matter. 

As for future "race swapping" Disney movies...I think it will all depend on the movie. Like I've said before in our discussion, I believe that there are legitimate reasons for it being perfectly reasonable and acceptable to want to switch up Ariel's race. Other characters, not so much.