#NotMyAriel trends after black actress was cast to play the Little Mermaid

[StrawberryBlond 13,301]

1 hour ago, Didymus said:

Ariel is defined by her dreamy, mentally wandering personality which is nevertheless powered by a fiery character. I see that perfectly represented in that video

And I actually do think she looks like Ariel Especially the eyes and the lips. Like, ok, you can come at me with the "my eyes aren't deceiving me" argument but I can shoot the same one right at ya.

I guess I overestimated how other people would see the same thing I'm seeing, but yeah... I genuinely see Ariel when I see that video

Hmm.

I mean, I can see what you're saying but I don't think all of those mental gymnastics are necessary. You may think you're saying something substantial when you're typing that a difference in skin color is in line with biology but that's a pretty empty statement lol. I never denied that skin colors can look different. All I said was that it doesn't make a difference for Ariel, the fictional character, at least not in the way it would make a difference for Tiana, whose skin color has a narrative purpose

I'm not denying that a black Ariel would be a different looking Ariel, but out of that difference does not follow the idea that we're talking about a different Ariel, that's the big distinction between interpretations I'm trying to emphasize here with my comments.

About skin color only being substantial when it's not white... well, yeah White people are culturally trained, sadly, to think of white skin color as neutral and everything else as a deviation from that norm. For people of other races, esp. black people, that mechanism is not similar, no matter what people like to think. Scientific studies conducted on children have shown clearly that black children, from a shockingly young age, learn to differentiate between white and black skin colors with racial prejudices fundamentally attached to them.

So it's more complicated than a lot of people here try to paint the scene imo. All the intellectual arguments aside, the end result is still that we have a bunch of white people complaining about how "their Ariel" (who is apparently only Ariel because she's white, it turns out, and not because she has a personality that can be portrayed again by whoever) is ruined not because they've seen the reinterpretation, but just because of the announcement that she will not be white. It's the epitome of first world problems.

Sure, if she's still the same Ariel in character, it ultimately makes no difference. It'll depend who else is casted and production's a long way off. I might still go see it but if she's not got red hair when the first image is released...I'll see how the trailer looks first.

I think skin colour's substantial for everyone, it's probably the joint first trait along with gender that hits you right in the face upon first sight. We all have race play a factor in our lives, for better or worse. I don't think race should be seen as something invisible, inconsequencial or undefining only when it comes to white skin. If white skin is supposedly so powerful as we keep getting told it is, why are we simultaneously made to feel like white characters are open to racial interpretation and that race can sometimes be ambiguous based on book descriptions?

Of course it's first world problems but in a world where you can have them, we're allowed to have a little moan now and again. It's not world ending but it's just a little disappointment for my inner child.

57 minutes ago, ltlmnstr said:

I’m never replying to the essayist from England every again on here. That’s all I know. 

I'm from Scotland. Please don't make assumptions about where I'm from and if you were referring to the entire country including Scotland, that's called the United Kingdom, not England.

30 minutes ago, M Monstre said:

Well, if Momoa fit to be Aquaman, why can't it fit with Ariel? Even if we look back on the original Little Mermaid story (not the animated one, but the Hans Christian Anderson one), sure, it may have originated in Denmark, but a lot of Disney animated movies changed from their original source material. Look at Pocahontas. It is completely different from what Pocahontas was actually like. Why can't they have some creative freedom now? It's the same thing with Aquaman. He's always been portrayed as a white male, but Jason Momoa—a person of color—played him and it was just fine.

As for her being a redhead...I'm sorry if this makes me ignorant or anything (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), but is there a lack of representation of redheads in media? I feel like there are a lot of redheads. It's not like they're a particularly marginalized group or anything. They could just dye her hair anyway, as you said. I don't think that they'll totally make Ariel have a natural black hairstyle, but I also can't see them not dying her hair red. It's a defining feature (moreso than her skin color). 

I guess because there are already so many white men that look like Aquaman in various films, why do we need another one? But there's not many women who look like Ariel in film, so this one seemed a bit more like we need to treat it with extra care.

Yeah, I've been through my whole life hardly seeing any redheads onscreen. Apart from cartoons like Ariel and Jessica Rabbit and the real life Geri Halliwell, I didn't see any redheaded women in media. At least these 3 women showed me redheaded women could be desirable as we're made to feel different/ugly by so many people. And I really pity red haired boys as they have even less choice of desirable men. Daniel Day Lewis is the first and only red haired male to front a tv series, by the way. And our hair colour has been changed more than once. A black girl with black hair played Annie in the 2014 remake and a blonde guy played Ron Weasley in the Harry Potter theatre play. And then there's when we're portrayed as villains sometimes. Nicole Kidman's a natural blonde but was famous for red hair however even she's kept it blonde in recent years. To see a redhead in a leading role where they're desirable is so rare and Ariel was a shining beacon of hope to all little redhaired girls. At last, there was a girl who looked like us! So to once again see the erasure of our natural appearance when the opportunity was wide open is just a low blow. Out of all the Disney adaptions they could have race changed, why do the one where the main character had the most unique look out of all the white princesses that may never be seen again?

[Craven Moorecox 2,806]

43 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yes, but sometimes, actors don't even audition, they're just approached because the studio has someone they've got in mind from the off. And you really think all the girls who actually look like Ariel and have played in productions of the role wouldn't have been interested? Yet again, here is another piece of reasoning that would never be used in the case of whitewashing. If a white person took on a role of a black character and you said: "has anyone considered that they got the role because they were the best one to audition?" you'd get laughed out the room regardless of how talented that actor was. I'm just asking for equal standards.

You do know that more and more theatre productions are actively trying to have diverse casts, especially in main roles? They're even refusing white actors who are perfect for the role over black actors who aren't as good a fit, just so they can get liberal praise, which is a far worse thing to do than to make accurate casting for your race. How do we know if she was the most qualified, we didn't see the other considerations? I'm all for black people getting opportunities but not through casting choices deliberately made just to be different but instead, getting new roles so they can become iconic in their own right, not through a new version of a white character. And what if we aren't as keen on Brave? I'm redhaired and Scottish and I didn't think the movie was all that. And did you have to put in "or Irish?" Was that really necessary? Are all redhaired people of Scottish or Irish descent to you and can all be lumped into one? It reminds me of how some Americans refer to "whites and Irish." We're the same race (as long as you're referring to Irish like it's a race, not a nationality). There's so much ignorance going on.

Where do I even begin... Most of the character descriptions of black roles are based on black history, location, or stereotypes. A lot of these “white” roles you are saying that are “earned” by minorities are not. Furthermore, there aren’t many roles written for minority as they are roles written for the majority. In the NOT SO DISTANT PAST, having a minority in the leading role would have a negative affect on box office sells. So if there were no reason for a character/role to be played by a person of color then a poc didn’t get asked or a chance to audition for that character/role. Sounds so fair doesn’t it 

Of course some casting agent make choices to pander to liberals, but making statement that white actors who are PERFECT fit are not getting pick over black actors who are NOT GOOD for role is undermining the success and hardship people of minority have to go through. If you have no idea of how the audition process went, you shouldn’t be making unjust assumptions that are very detrimental in the pursuit of equality. Do you know how hurtful it is to belittle someone’s achievement by making statement that “oh it was given to them because they are minority” or “they just want to pander to the liberal agenda”. Whitewashing does not promote equality since white people have the most influence in media, politics, economics, and society. Acts to correct past and current discriminations are not attacks on the majority.

Do you know what representation does? It motivates minorities to believe and strive for things society has indirectly or directly said were unobtainable. For example having more representation of gay couples with kids shows that the family lifestyle is obtainable. This help gays break the idea that they’re forced to live a promiscuous lifestyle. But hey having a gay family in a movie or show is forced diversity, right 

Sorry you didn’t like Brave, I didn’t write it and the only reason why I said Scottish or Irish because I didn’t exactly know which country her accent came from. I bet you don’t know the differences between the many Asian or African accents. Or do you?

#micdropped!

[Didymus 32,767]

Just now, StrawberryBlond said:

If white skin is supposedly so powerful as we keep getting told it is, why are we simultaneously made to feel like white characters are open to racial interpretation and that race can sometimes be ambiguous based on book descriptions? 

Because Ariel is not a white character, I guess. It reminds me of Rowling casting a black girl as Hermione in the Harry Potter sequel play. I mean, this is an author of a character who said herself she never explicitly created Hermione as a white character, just as a character. Characters, when their skin color is left completely undiscussed, are always open to racial interpretation imo

I get you though. I mean, I grew up with Mermaid as well but somehow I'm not bothered by it, I'm actually thrilled the studio is finally taking some kind of interesting artistic risk and taking more explicit steps towards diversity. But I get that for some people it creates a "don't touch my baby" reaction. These remakes are themselves ridiculous and I actually agree with the people before me who have said they'd rather have new interesting black figures. But when these remakes have to be made purely for commercial profit, I am kind of happy that at least they're doing something positive (in a cultural sense) with it.

Anyway, I hope the movie can please you in whatever way in the end. I hope I like it 'cause I ****ing hated all the remakes so far

[Guest]

On 7/5/2019 at 7:49 PM, PlastiscGuy said:

Imagine being pressed by a Disney movie! 

Yeah who cares, but the casting makes no sense so far 

[Reality 65,766]

19 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I guess because there are already so many white men that look like Aquaman in various films, why do we need another one? But there's not many women who look like Ariel in film, so this one seemed a bit more like we need to treat it with extra care.

Yeah, I've been through my whole life hardly seeing any redheads onscreen. Apart from cartoons like Ariel and Jessica Rabbit and the real life Geri Halliwell, I didn't see any redheaded women in media. At least these 3 women showed me redheaded women could be desirable as we're made to feel different/ugly by so many people. And I really pity red haired boys as they have even less choice of desirable men. Daniel Day Lewis is the first and only red haired male to front a tv series, by the way. And our hair colour has been changed more than once. A black girl with black hair played Annie in the 2014 remake and a blonde guy played Ron Weasley in the Harry Potter theatre play. And then there's when we're portrayed as villains sometimes. Nicole Kidman's a natural blonde but was famous for red hair however even she's kept it blonde in recent years. To see a redhead in a leading role where they're desirable is so rare and Ariel was a shining beacon of hope to all little redhaired girls. At last, there was a girl who looked like us! So to once again see the erasure of our natural appearance when the opportunity was wide open is just a low blow. Out of all the Disney adaptions they could have race changed, why do the one where the main character had the most unique look out of all the white princesses that may never be seen again?

To your first point, Ariel's a white red haired woman, I feel like there's a lot of red haired actresses in film and media: Amy Adams, Isla Fisher, Jessica Chastain, Karen Gillan, and Bryce Dallas Howard  are just a few that come to mind.  Sure a blonde white haired man is probably more common to see,  but what you're saying could also work against your point. Why need another white actress (regardless of their hair color) when you could have an actress of color?

I'm not a redhead so I cannot fully comment on your experience not seeing enough people like you in media. That's purely subjective and I just cannot argue with that.

I will say though, to your last point about why change Ariel, like I said, I think it makes sense. Even considering the fact that original story was made by a man from Denmark, the ocean is a global location. You could have Ariel set anywhere and that wouldn't necessarily affect how good the story is. Like I said, I haven't seen Ariel, but you said before that the movie didn't even explicitly mention where this was supposed to be set, so why not change it? Why can't this version, for instance, be set in the Caribbean like many people speculated it was? 

[illySpencer 1,434]

On 7/5/2019 at 8:27 PM, M Monstre said:

I know that's the original story, but I'm talking about the movie adaptation. If it's in Denmark, then why does Sebastian have a Caribbean accent?

And why Eric’c cook is French ? You theorie is wrong. Plus in the movie Eric ask Ariel if she wants to see his kingdom, and Carabean are not a kingdom. Plus, in the Little Mermaid 2 Melody goes to Morgana’s lair which is located in Iceberg. And finally in the TV show they drew Andersen. So the action in the Disney movie is also takes place in Denmark. 

[illySpencer 1,434]

15 hours ago, ZiggyZiggs said:

Nop it doesn’t. a danish writer wrote the original fairytale.

But the Disney adaption is NOT set in Denmark or anywhere near Europe, it is set in the Caribbean, so sick of people saying the same lie over and over again. 

You are totally wrong ! The Little mermaid tales place in Denmark ! 

[Reality 65,766]

3 hours ago, illySpencer said:

And why Eric’c cook is French ? You theorie is wrong. Plus in the movie Eric ask Ariel if she wants to see his kingdom, and Carabean are not a kingdom. Plus, in the Little Mermaid 2 Melody goes to Morgana’s lair which is located in Iceberg. And finally in the TV show they drew Andersen. So the action in the Disney movie is also takes place in Denmark. 

I said I've never seen the movie. These are just things I've heard.

[GypsyBabe 22,836]

10 hours ago, Didymus said:

Because Ariel is not a white character, I guess. It reminds me of Rowling casting a black girl as Hermione in the Harry Potter sequel play. I mean, this is an author of a character who said herself she never explicitly created Hermione as a white character, just as a character. Characters, when their skin color is left completely undiscussed, are always open to racial interpretation imo

Okay but this. This is why when Hermione was black, I never had an issue because her character could encompass any race. She was just a great badass character and a great person and being those things has no skin color. 

I will admit that I was upset with the casting of Ariel for the simple reason of wanting a legit carbon copy of the cartoon because I loved it. It really didn’t go deeper than that. I had to sit back and think about what my issues were and why I feel differently about Ariel than I did for Hermione. I came to the conclusion that I really didn’t. It was being superficial and wanting an Ariel that matched the girl on my bedspread years ago. I didn’t bat an eye for a strong character like Granger and I am not going to for a mermaid either. I’m happy about the casting today. I am excited for this opportunity, and excited that young black girls will have a mermaid to look up to like I did in 1989. It’s a shame that it has taken so long. 

I will say though, that I am not a fan of remaking all of these films in live action. What we need is new characters and stories that are more demonstrative of the different ways princesses can look and be. 

[Didymus 32,767]

5 minutes ago, GypsyBabe said:

Okay but this. This is why when Hermione was black, I never had an issue because her character could encompass any race. She was just a great badass character and a great person and being those things has no skin color.  

I will admit that I was upset with the casting of Ariel for the simple reason of wanting a legit carbon copy of the cartoon because I loved it. It really didn’t go deeper than that. I had to sit back and think about what my issues were and why I feel differently about Ariel than I did for Hermione. I came to the conclusion that I really didn’t. It was being superficial and wanting an Ariel that matched the girl on my bedspread years ago. I didn’t bat an eye for a strong character like Granger and I am not going to for a mermaid either. I’m happy about the casting today. I am excited for this opportunity, and excited that young black girls will have a mermaid to look up to like I did in 1989. It’s a shame that it has taken so long.  

I will say though, that I am not a fan of remaking all of these films in live action. What we need is new characters and stories that are more demonstrative of the different ways princesses can look and be.  

  at everything.

[illySpencer 1,434]

5 hours ago, GypsyBabe said:

Okay but this. This is why when Hermione was black, I never had an issue because her character could encompass any race. She was just a great badass character and a great person and being those things has no skin color. 

I will admit that I was upset with the casting of Ariel for the simple reason of wanting a legit carbon copy of the cartoon because I loved it. It really didn’t go deeper than that. I had to sit back and think about what my issues were and why I feel differently about Ariel than I did for Hermione. I came to the conclusion that I really didn’t. It was being superficial and wanting an Ariel that matched the girl on my bedspread years ago. I didn’t bat an eye for a strong character like Granger and I am not going to for a mermaid either. I’m happy about the casting today. I am excited for this opportunity, and excited that young black girls will have a mermaid to look up to like I did in 1989. It’s a shame that it has taken so long. 

I will say though, that I am not a fan of remaking all of these films in live action. What we need is new characters and stories that are more demonstrative of the different ways princesses can look and be. 

It was. I was here back then. Even JK Rowling talked about that, that she was ok with a black Hermione. It was the same story too. 

[illySpencer 1,434]

10 hours ago, M Monstre said:

I said I've never seen the movie. These are just things I've heard.

That is a big proof that maybe you should have seen the movie to talk about it. 

[Reality 65,766]

2 minutes ago, illySpencer said:

That is a big proof that maybe you should have seen the movie to talk about it. 

I don't necessarily need to see the movie to give my opinion on whether or not I think this is a good or bad casting choice. 

Never have I heard that Ariel's race deeply affected her storyline and her character. In my opinion, I couldn't care less about what her race is; I just want whoever is playing her to do a good job. 

[StrawberryBlond 13,301]

20 hours ago, Craven Moorecox said:

Where do I even begin... Most of the character descriptions of black roles are based on black history, location, or stereotypes. A lot of these “white” roles you are saying that are “earned” by minorities are not. Furthermore, there aren’t many roles written for minority as they are roles written for the majority. In the NOT SO DISTANT PAST, having a minority in the leading role would have a negative affect on box office sells. So if there were no reason for a character/role to be played by a person of color then a poc didn’t get asked or a chance to audition for that character/role. Sounds so fair doesn’t it 

Of course some casting agent make choices to pander to liberals, but making statement that white actors who are PERFECT fit are not getting pick over black actors who are NOT GOOD for role is undermining the success and hardship people of minority have to go through. If you have no idea of how the audition process went, you shouldn’t be making unjust assumptions that are very detrimental in the pursuit of equality. Do you know how hurtful it is to belittle someone’s achievement by making statement that “oh it was given to them because they are minority” or “they just want to pander to the liberal agenda”. Whitewashing does not promote equality since white people have the most influence in media, politics, economics, and society. Acts to correct past and current discriminations are not attacks on the majority.

Do you know what representation does? It motivates minorities to believe and strive for things society has indirectly or directly said were unobtainable. For example having more representation of gay couples with kids shows that the family lifestyle is obtainable. This help gays break the idea that they’re forced to live a promiscuous lifestyle. But hey having a gay family in a movie or show is forced diversity, right 

Sorry you didn’t like Brave, I didn’t write it and the only reason why I said Scottish or Irish because I didn’t exactly know which country her accent came from. I bet you don’t know the differences between the many Asian or African accents. Or do you?

#micdropped!

But I am talking about roles that were made 100% clear that they were white, maybe even through official illustrations, pre-movie, as well as roles that are based on real life historic figures. Not to mention roles where there is no logical way, given the time period and situation that the character could be non-white. Of course if a character's race is never mentioned, I'm fine with anyone of any race being cast, provided it suits the historical era. But if the story has made it abundantly clear that the character has a specific race and in the case of Ariel, we've already had an original visual depiction of her, it must remain that way. You don't have to give me a history lesson, I know how racial barriers made acting hard before, but I'm not denying that.

First off, I never said that I support whitewashing - I don't. I'd be just as enraged if a white girl was cast as Tiana, Mulan or Pocahontas. I just want representation for every minority group and minority groups aren't just racial groups. I didn't say that black actors are never fit for a role, but just like whites, there are some roles they simply don't fit, no matter how talented they are, usually for historical and geographical accuracy. And sometimes, there have been cases of a black actor who isn't even as talented getting a role just to pander to liberals. I won't just throw out statements like "obviously it was given to them because they were black" without some evidence behind it (and I also wouldn't say something so insensitively blunt). But, as you pointed out that I had no idea what the audition process was like either, some information came to me a few hours ago and while there is no proof behind it, I'd happily put my life savings on this being true: https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/04/people-reckon-beyonce-was-behind-halle-baileys-casting-as-ariel-in-the-little-mermaid-10113084/

I never said I was against representation of any kind. Why do you assume I'd be against gay couples being shown? Every minority group deserves their time to shine...but it has to be at an appropriate time, when it's their piece of representation to take, or in a completely new story of their own. Disney would help black girls so much more by creating new black protagonists instead of doing a race bend on an already established white character. As a woman, I don't want to see women play established male characters in a gender bend, I want to see women at the centre of their own original stories. I want the same for every minority group.

Considering that Brave was marketed completely on being Scottish, I thought it would be obvious and not even something that must be researched. I just thought it was ironic that you were telling me to lose my ignorance when you appeared to act like every person from the British Isles was the same and hard to tell apart. I may not be able to tell the difference between every Asian and African accent but that being the case, I'd do a quick Google search of the movie before assuming what country it was from.

20 hours ago, Didymus said:

Because Ariel is not a white character, I guess. It reminds me of Rowling casting a black girl as Hermione in the Harry Potter sequel play. I mean, this is an author of a character who said herself she never explicitly created Hermione as a white character, just as a character. Characters, when their skin color is left completely undiscussed, are always open to racial interpretation imo

I get you though. I mean, I grew up with Mermaid as well but somehow I'm not bothered by it, I'm actually thrilled the studio is finally taking some kind of interesting artistic risk and taking more explicit steps towards diversity. But I get that for some people it creates a "don't touch my baby" reaction. These remakes are themselves ridiculous and I actually agree with the people before me who have said they'd rather have new interesting black figures. But when these remakes have to be made purely for commercial profit, I am kind of happy that at least they're doing something positive (in a cultural sense) with it.

Anyway, I hope the movie can please you in whatever way in the end. I hope I like it 'cause I ****ing hated all the remakes so far

Ariel was always referred to as white until now. She is the same shade as the other white Disney characters, mermaids are already human from the waist up and her race doesn't change when she becomes fully human. So, why are so many people now trying to say she could have been any race? Are they forcing themselves into denying reality for the sake of their interpretation of progressivism, maybe? JK Rowling is heavily into the new SJW wave and she's taken back so much stuff she's said about her characters now because of it. I think it's sad, it shows she doesn't have the faith in her own creation. Not only was Hermione described as pale in the books but JK actually was involved in signing off illustrations of her books before the movies were made and Hermione is depicted as white in every official animation I ever saw of her pre-movies.  Oh, yes, and she gave her blessing to all the actors who got cast, no one was cast without her say so, so she wanted Hermione to be white. JK wrote her as white, she knows she's white, but now she wants to give black actresses a chance years later, so she now claims different. I'm just one for giving people a dose of reality.

But were you a redhead watching the movie growing up? If not, it's hard to know exactly how we feel. I've found that it's hard for anyone, even other whites, to understand the struggles of having red hair. No one seems to take it seriously or think we need to be represented more. And it's still widely accepted to make jokes about us to this day.

19 hours ago, M Monstre said:

To your first point, Ariel's a white red haired woman, I feel like there's a lot of red haired actresses in film and media: Amy Adams, Isla Fisher, Jessica Chastain, Karen Gillan, and Bryce Dallas Howard  are just a few that come to mind.  Sure a blonde white haired man is probably more common to see,  but what you're saying could also work against your point. Why need another white actress (regardless of their hair color) when you could have an actress of color?

I'm not a redhead so I cannot fully comment on your experience not seeing enough people like you in media. That's purely subjective and I just cannot argue with that.

I will say though, to your last point about why change Ariel, like I said, I think it makes sense. Even considering the fact that original story was made by a man from Denmark, the ocean is a global location. You could have Ariel set anywhere and that wouldn't necessarily affect how good the story is. Like I said, I haven't seen Ariel, but you said before that the movie didn't even explicitly mention where this was supposed to be set, so why not change it? Why can't this version, for instance, be set in the Caribbean like many people speculated it was? 

Good point on your list of actresses but a lot of them are pretty niche except for maybe one big film. They're none of the major hitters and seem pretty invisible to me a lot of the time. Karen Gillian was in one of the biggest hit movies of the year that made nearly $1 billion and yet I never seemed to hear anything about that movie or seem to see her being a major player in Hollywood for it, she just seems to be operate on the periphery. And there is no teen up and coming actress with red hair for young girls to look up to. White actresses and white redheaded actresses are different. One is infinitely more common and more likely to get roles. Brunettes are the most common hair colour in the world, so they get the majority of roles, followed by blondes and then redheads, therefore, race ties into hair colour with this one and needs to be taken into account.

Well, that's good that you take my account at face value because plenty of people don't, they just laugh and say I'm overreacting, which is so ironic because they berate whites for doing exactly the same to POC. I said previously that it's very hard to make a non-redhead understand the struggles we go through, only we can get it, which I guess is natural when you're only 2% of the world's population.

"The ocean is a global location" is too vague a reason, sorry. There is land that is entered into on this location, it's not just water. Ariel goes right around this kingdom as a human and while some parts look very Caribbean (there's even some palm trees), the next minute, a whole section looks like it could be set in any European woodland. The interior of the castle is very European, everyone of every European nationality seems to live in this castle, the men on board ship are playing sea shanties and Eric plays a flute. Eric is one of the most common Norse names, particularly in their royalty, by the way. The Caribbean has also never had royal families. I daresay it's kinda like when Cinderella, which is a French fairytale, had everyone with an American accent, giving the illusion it was set in America even though America never had a royalty. American adaptions of non-American works always do this weird hybrid world thing, partly because they want to appeal to all and partly because they think America is the world. If anything, I say enough of this Americanisms in this day and age and take it back to the origins of any tale, we're past the stage where we have to Americanise everything.

9 hours ago, GypsyBabe said:

Okay but this. This is why when Hermione was black, I never had an issue because her character could encompass any race. She was just a great badass character and a great person and being those things has no skin color.

I see you say that you were ok with Hermione being black previously because the book never mentioned her race and you never took it into account but if you look at what I said on the first paragraph of my reply two up from this one, you'll get the truth tea on this whole thing.

[Craven Moorecox 2,806]

36 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

But I am talking about roles that were made 100% clear that they were white, maybe even through official illustrations, pre-movie, as well as roles that are based on real life historic figures. Not to mention roles where there is no logical way, given the time period and situation that the character could be non-white. Of course if a character's race is never mentioned, I'm fine with anyone of any race being cast, provided it suits the historical era. But if the story has made it abundantly clear that the character has a specific race and in the case of Ariel, we've already had an original visual depiction of her, it must remain that way. You don't have to give me a history lesson, I know how racial barriers made acting hard before, but I'm not denying that.

First off, I never said that I support whitewashing - I don't. I'd be just as enraged if a white girl was cast as Tiana, Mulan or Pocahontas. I just want representation for every minority group and minority groups aren't just racial groups. I didn't say that black actors are never fit for a role, but just like whites, there are some roles they simply don't fit, no matter how talented they are, usually for historical and geographical accuracy. And sometimes, there have been cases of a black actor who isn't even as talented getting a role just to pander to liberals. I won't just throw out statements like "obviously it was given to them because they were black" without some evidence behind it (and I also wouldn't say something so insensitively blunt). But, as you pointed out that I had no idea what the audition process was like either, some information came to me a few hours ago and while there is no proof behind it, I'd happily put my life savings on this being true: https://metro.co.uk/2019/07/04/people-reckon-beyonce-was-behind-halle-baileys-casting-as-ariel-in-the-little-mermaid-10113084/

I never said I was against representation of any kind. Why do you assume I'd be against gay couples being shown? Every minority group deserves their time to shine...but it has to be at an appropriate time, when it's their piece of representation to take, or in a completely new story of their own. Disney would help black girls so much more by creating new black protagonists instead of doing a race bend on an already established white character. As a woman, I don't want to see women play established male characters in a gender bend, I want to see women at the centre of their own original stories. I want the same for every minority group.

Considering that Brave was marketed completely on being Scottish, I thought it would be obvious and not even something that must be researched. I just thought it was ironic that you were telling me to lose my ignorance when you appeared to act like every person from the British Isles was the same and hard to tell apart. I may not be able to tell the difference between every Asian and African accent but that being the case, I'd do a quick Google search of the movie before assuming what country it was from.

Ariel was always referred to as white until now. She is the same shade as the other white Disney characters, mermaids are already human from the waist up and her race doesn't change when she becomes fully human. So, why are so many people now trying to say she could have been any race? Are they forcing themselves into denying reality for the sake of their interpretation of progressivism, maybe? JK Rowling is heavily into the new SJW wave and she's taken back so much stuff she's said about her characters now because of it. I think it's sad, it shows she doesn't have the faith in her own creation. Not only was Hermione described as pale in the books but JK actually was involved in signing off illustrations of her books before the movies were made and Hermione is depicted as white in every official animation I ever saw of her pre-movies.  Oh, yes, and she gave her blessing to all the actors who got cast, no one was cast without her say so, so she wanted Hermione to be white. JK wrote her as white, she knows she's white, but now she wants to give black actresses a chance years later, so she now claims different. I'm just one for giving people a dose of reality.

But were you a redhead watching the movie growing up? If not, it's hard to know exactly how we feel. I've found that it's hard for anyone, even other whites, to understand the struggles of having red hair. No one seems to take it seriously or think we need to be represented more. And it's still widely accepted to make jokes about us to this day.

Good point on your list of actresses but a lot of them are pretty niche except for maybe one big film. They're none of the major hitters and seem pretty invisible to me a lot of the time. Karen Gillian was in one of the biggest hit movies of the year that made nearly $1 billion and yet I never seemed to hear anything about that movie or seem to see her being a major player in Hollywood for it, she just seems to be operate on the periphery. And there is no teen up and coming actress with red hair for young girls to look up to. White actresses and white redheaded actresses are different. One is infinitely more common and more likely to get roles. Brunettes are the most common hair colour in the world, so they get the majority of roles, followed by blondes and then redheads, therefore, race ties into hair colour with this one and needs to be taken into account.

Well, that's good that you take my account at face value because plenty of people don't, they just laugh and say I'm overreacting, which is so ironic because they berate whites for doing exactly the same to POC. I said previously that it's very hard to make a non-redhead understand the struggles we go through, only we can get it, which I guess is natural when you're only 2% of the world's population.

"The ocean is a global location" is too vague a reason, sorry. There is land that is entered into on this location, it's not just water. Ariel goes right around this kingdom as a human and while some parts look very Caribbean (there's even some palm trees), the next minute, a whole section looks like it could be set in any European woodland. The interior of the castle is very European, everyone of every European nationality seems to live in this castle, the men on board ship are playing sea shanties and Eric plays a flute. Eric is one of the most common Norse names, particularly in their royalty, by the way. The Caribbean has also never had royal families. I daresay it's kinda like when Cinderella, which is a French fairytale, had everyone with an American accent, giving the illusion it was set in America even though America never had a royalty. American adaptions of non-American works always do this weird hybrid world thing, partly because they want to appeal to all and partly because they think America is the world. If anything, I say enough of this Americanisms in this day and age and take it back to the origins of any tale, we're past the stage where we have to Americanise everything.

I see you say that you were ok with Hermione being black previously because the book never mentioned her race and you never took it into account but if you look at what I said on the first paragraph of my reply two up from this one, you'll get the truth tea on this whole thing.

1. I never said you supported whitewashing, I just stated why it can’t be done as a sign of diversifying. White people don’t new diversification when they are the majority. Adding white representation in stuff that is cultural rooted is a problem because in the pass and now some white people would “steal” or be “influenced” by certain aspects of a culture, but then simultaneously call that cultural group inferior.

2. My statement about gay representation was an example of how anybody can view inclusion and representation as force diversity. It wasn’t a direct attack on you. 

3. You use “I” way too many time which shows that you may have A hard time looking from a perspective outside yourself. The way you word your statements makes it seem like you only really focus on yourself and how things should be to benefit your point of view. If you begin to look at the whole picture of how the world is for a lot of people “who are not like you”, you won’t make half of the statements you make + your statement wouldn’t requires you to back track or clarify things through long paragraph when someones call you out. I’m not trying to attack you, I’m just saying take a minute to clarify your thoughts and stay things clearly the first time. That way so many of the people you quote won’t be coming for you.