Gaga's career and the Chaos Theory/Butterfly Effect?

[PlastiscGuy 21,283]

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find any thread related, so if you do please bring it to the conversation as I'd love to see more opinions about it 

 

So, this thought was brought to me as I was scrolling down Facebook and saw a post about "ARTPOP being the worst mistake Gaga had had through her career" and it made me think... Was it really?

ARTPOP didn't flop. It truly didn't, it sold almost 3M of copies, which is a lot considering we live in a streaming era nowadays, but the backlash Gaga has received during the ARTPOP era isn't only about the success towards the album.

Back on the old days, Gaga had an impressive debut followed by a massive success on her second album (or EP) The Fame Monster. Gaga was everywhere, her music was everywhere. There was no one that would not know who she was. She was in everyone's mouths. But then, Gaga released Born This Way. And I think no one expected her to become such an activist for LGBT and even racial human rights. Considering she had some conservative fans, even if she was CrazyGa, was Born This Way really the beginning of the controversy? 

Yes, the Born This Way album had a huge success, but was that because of the expectations after her iconic The Fame Monster? Cause if you look at the singles... Did a large part of her fanbase leave her after Gaga became a vocal activist during her third album's era? After her tour was canceled and her hip accident took place and she went outta the radar. She broke ties with her former choreographer and had some issues with her former manager too which led to them splitting up towards the ARTPOP release. Then, as Gaga was in a very dark place and the album didn't sell as much as previous ones did, everything led up to a very messy era 

But when everything seemed lost, just as the phoenix, she resurged from her ashes And so, the calm after the storm was slowly approaching.

Cheek to Cheek was released, and then the Oscar tribute happened. And Gaga seemed to be cleaning her image as she would gain more followers, this time, of a different kind of. She gained respect from the GP, and everyone seemed to love her again  Yes. Just as she predicted it on her Paparazzi video

The point is... What would have happened if she wouldn't have released Born This Way? Would she have felt and been betrayed? Would her friendship with Tony Bennet have been the same? She probably wouldn't have needed his help and support... at least not in the same way. She probably wouldn't have been as free to be herself as she is now. Would Cheek to Cheek and Joanne have been released? Without Gaga going a little Jazzy, would she have met and connected with Bradley Cooper the way they did? What about A Star Is Born and her professional acting career?

This is what led me to think... did the Born This Way album and concept really had that much influence? Imagine the possibilities...  Also, let's remember the supposed chaos theory concept LG5 was going to have...  I know it's technically impossible, but why does it all seem to be connected? All the prophecies and stuff... it's really creepy if you think about it 
Anyway, I hope someone discusses this and brings some old threads to the convo cause I really really want to know more about it

[PlastiscGuy 21,283]

Also, bringing this back again cause I'm 1 WP away from another ban, so I wanted to get rid of any doubts and thoughts as long as I could 

[Hardcore Porn 648]

I'm just going to say that if it wasn't because of Born this Way I probably wouldn't have become  a fan of her. 

[nerdfacekillah 4,485]

@OMonster has a thread about this theory that was discussed a lot here.

 

[Madame Goo Goo 3,933]

27 minutes ago, PlastiscGuy said:

Cause if you look at the singles... 

 

Born This Way debuted at #1. Judas peaked at #10. The Edge of Glory peaked at #3. You And I peaked at #6. Born This Way and The Edge of Glory are two of her biggest hits that the GP still recognizes and loves. Every single on Born This Way was successful except for Marry The Night, which still peaked within the top 30. [Unrelated to thread but I still had to get it out there]

[PlastiscGuy 21,283]

3 minutes ago, Madame Goo Goo said:

Born This Way debuted at #1. Judas peaked at #10. The Edge of Glory peaked at #3. You And I peaked at #6. Born This Way and The Edge of Glory are two of her biggest hits that the GP still recognizes and loves. Every single on Born This Way was successful except for Marry The Night, which still peaked within the top 30. [Unrelated to thread but I still had to get it out there]

Oop, my bad

[Inferno 2,880]

Born This Way was 100% where she lost her grip on consumers and popular culture in general. She was riding her career high off of The Fame Monster and still touring The Monster Ball, so the album was statistically successful and had some hit singles undoubtedly, but its longevity was not there beyond the lead and even with the leads longevity i'd argue it is not a universally popular single. The era was plagued with controversy from the get go with the Madonna comparisons and arguments of her exploiting social issues for profit (do not agree with them but the arguments were there regardless). Born This Way was her tipping point, ARTPOP was doomed for that kind of backlash/failure before it was even released UNLESS she were to have made a pop album so undeniably amazing that no one would be able to say sh*t, but she didn't.

[AlexanderMagno 10,746]

I don't understand why fans give so much attention to the whole Paparazzi story. Paparazzi is based in the pop star's life cycle. Gaga didn't foreshadow anything, she is following the path that major pop stars have. They are very successful, then have a low time, and then comeback.

There are no prophecies or whatever. It's a major pop star's life.

This big analysis to Gaga's career that fans have been doing as if she is fulfilling some sort of miracle is tiring  she just knows how to properly appeal to the audience she wants to appeal.

 

As for Born This Way: it influenced Gaga's future career because it was not the pop that people were expecting after "The Fame Monster" (people loved TFM hits, and they wanted more from her. She didn't give them that) and it was not the experimental that people were expecting after her antics (back then there was a lot of expectations that Gaga would become a new Bjork, she had the visuals she was just missing the music).

Besides that, she was everywhere. And she was releasing a single every two weeks. People got tired of her. So, slowly they let her go.

After that, her whole career has been trying to regain success, until nowadays she was able to. ARTPOP came and she tried to jumpwagon to the EDM that was popular, the year before. She was one year too late. Plus, she tried to regain her status as an artistic pop star, but this time she was forcing it too much, and the concept was not very well received.

Then Cheek to Cheek and Joanne happened because she had to transition into a 30-year-old pop star securing her status. The recognition and success she's enjoying after these projects and ASIB is by no means a prophecy come true or a miracle, it's a well-crafted plan to rebrand her and secure her status. 

 

 

If Born This Way didn't happen? She'd always release a new pop album I think. Probably very similar to TFM, and it would probably keep her in the radios until today. Her trajectory would be the same as Katy Perry, a musician for pop hits.

On the other hand, unlike most of her contemporanies, she has a big voice. So, unlike her contemporanies, who are struggling to keep their major success during their 30s, Gaga would always embrace her adult contemporany phase by appealing to the wider audience. Because she has a big voice, and that is key to be able to transition from a 20 year old pop star to a 30 year old female musician, I think Joanne would have happened (it would have been her "transition" album) and then probably Cheek to Cheek.

Looking at every major pop star from the last century till today, Gaga's trajectory has its resemblances. Everyone has a transition, everyone tries to go into the movies, everyone keeps a bit of the past antics. I really don't think it's that deep.

[giskardsb 12,565]

she was doing jazzy stuff before Bennet officially happened, he just gave her the opportunity to do an entire album in a "safe" way.   Her Jazz move was inevitable.

[PlastiscGuy 21,283]

1 minute ago, giskardsb said:

she was doing jazzy stuff before Bennet officially happened

Yep, since she was 13

[Reject False Icons 4,782]

I agree that Born This Way was the break from the Pop star, to do what she felt like to do, since 2011 she publicly expressed her desire to sing jazz with Tony, since her beginning she tributed her beloved aunt, and she said she wanted to be an actor before a singer she knows where to go to chase her dreams and to be successful, she was never basic, gimmicky or pretentious. That was the changing perception the public had from her which gave her ups and downs, but I feel she had always been authentic 

[LilyLark 10,122]

2 hours ago, Inferno said:

Born This Way was 100% where she lost her grip on consumers and popular culture in general. She was riding her career high off of The Fame Monster and still touring The Monster Ball, so the album was statistically successful and had some hit singles undoubtedly, but its longevity was not there beyond the lead and even with the leads longevity i'd argue it is not a universally popular single. The era was plagued with controversy from the get go with the Madonna comparisons and arguments of her exploiting social issues for profit (do not agree with them but the arguments were there regardless). Born This Way was her tipping point, ARTPOP was doomed for that kind of backlash/failure before it was even released UNLESS she were to have made a pop album so undeniably amazing that no one would be able to say sh*t, but she didn't.

It is kind of ironic, since in retrospect a lot of music critics tend to view Born this Way (the album, not the single) as underrated but at the time were snarky about BTW even if it got mostly good reviews.

But I agree with most of this and I also think Gaga, at the point, was just badly over exposed and when ever someone is over exposed the public (and even some of the critics) tend to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder. Then of course Gaga released a very polarizing album when she was over exposed and that was that....

[Inferno 2,880]

1 minute ago, LilyLark said:

It is kind of ironic, since in retrospect a lot of music critics tend to view Born this Way (the album, not the single) as underrated but at the time were snarky about BTW even if it got mostly good reviews.

But I agree with most of this and I also think Gaga, at the point, was just badly over exposed and when ever someone is over exposed the public (and even some of the critics) tend to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder. Then of course Gaga released a very polarizing album when she was over exposed and that was that....

Just as The Fame Monster was a perfect storm in a positive way, the same can be said for Born This Way but from a more negative perspective. And I don't mean to act as if Born This Way was some sort of failure, it was successful. I think now that we're 8 years removed from the era I look back on it and appreciate it waay more now than I did then because im no longer engulfed in the mindset everyone had about her at that time, that even I as a fan couldnt help but be infected with. Which was her overexposure and everyones desire for her to continue on more seamlessly from The Fame Monster to what I believe @AlexanderMagno mentioned here or another thread, but that people were expecting her to marry her visuals with her music and level up to become the top 40 equivalent to bjork or something and instead we got this campy techno-metal-goth-pop extravaganza that raised her extra volume to 1000.

[LeJudas 6,490]

Chaos Angel?

[LilyLark 10,122]

Just now, Inferno said:

Just as The Fame Monster was a perfect storm in a positive way, the same can be said for Born This Way but from a more negative perspective. And I don't mean to act as if Born This Way was some sort of failure, it was successful. I think now that we're 8 years removed from the era I look back on it and appreciate it waay more now than I did then because im no longer engulfed in the mindset everyone had about her at that time, that even I as a fan couldnt help but be infected with. Which was her overexposure and everyones desire for her to continue on more seamlessly from The Fame Monster to what I believe @AlexanderMagno mentioned here or another thread, but that people were expecting her to marry her visuals with her music and level up to become the top 40 equivalent to bjork or something and instead we got this campy techno-metal-goth-pop extravaganza that raised her extra volume to 1000.

It's actually my favorite Gaga album. But yeah, I think people were not expecting Elton John meets Robyn meets Bruce Springsteen and that's what kind of started her "downfall," despite the massive success of the album in terms of sales, although a downfall didn't fully happen until ARTPOP.

OP is right though that even Gaga's "flop" eras aren't flops.