Quebec bans religious symbols in public sector jobs

[ice bear 1]

a great yes for public space

a great no for personal space 

 

[GGDisbetter 2,187]

skinny

[Guillaume Hamon 6,981]

8 hours ago, Faysalaaa said:

it happens in france all the time. Remember they did not allow women with hijab to go to the beach?

You say it like if it was all over France when it was in 30 french communities out of the 20 000+  existing. It's like saying "US banned it" when one state out of the 50 did but here it would be closer to one out of 600.   

These few places were run by right-wings mayors who banned "burkini" cause there was a law void for it and the constitutional french court quickly hold an audience to fill that and decided these fresh bans weren't valid.

I know it's not you misrepresenting facts. :* Most people don't know the details cause people often misrepresent stories when it comes to religious signs/ secularism or anything related to this subject.

[Melech 9,900]

Good

[Guillaume Hamon 6,981]

6 hours ago, Economy said:

In France also for JW they made an insane tax specifically for them not long ago and the courts said it was discriminatory

What tax for jewish people do you talk about?

I saw someone telling you it was a sect that was concerned by that and not the actual jewish community but I don't even know which tax you're talking about?

[Economy 52,838]

3 minutes ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

What tax for jewish people do you talk about?

I saw someone telling you it was a sect that was concerned by that and not the actual jewish community but I don't even know which tax you're talking about?

Not Jewish Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

France tried to tax only that religion specifically and it was a high tax too

 

It was some years ago I don't remember the details

 

I know intolerance of Muslims in France can also be quite high

[mindless 738]

Yes! Can we ban religion altogether?

It has turned into such a pity party. Nobody is practicing the spirituality behind religion, only the privilege it gives them. So what’s the point?

[Economy 52,838]

1 hour ago, Florian said:

What am I reading? 

France never made a tax especially for JW. This organization was just considered like a sect and not a religion and thus wasn't benefitting from some tax cuts. Every instances of our French courts ruled on French State side. Only the European Court didn't. And "not long ago" was from 1994 to 1997.

The separation of the religion and the State happened more then a century ago in order to reduce the influence of an external entity over the nation and rightfully so. Secularism is part of our culture yet I've never seen anyone not being able to practice its religion freely (except in school maybe because of the principle of neutrality but even there my Muslim friend was just taking off her hijab in front of the school and putting back after and she was fine with it)

French governments like religions, officials go to every big events, Macron and Sarkozy both said that religion can be important. Secularism isn't about banning religion, it's about allowing the entire nation to practice its religion without one becoming too powerful and threatening the others. And to do so you need a completely neutral State hence the separation between State and separation.

And saying French governments not liking foreigners I have to laugh. That is RIDICULOUS. Our history is deeply rooted to immigration and a huge part of French population is from immigrants descent

Well France seems to put pressure on groups that most developed nations don't and which ones qualify for the status of cults and not religions to some extent seems arbitrary

 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-12/french-want-make-society-safe-religion-banning-so-called-cults

 

I'm also not a fan of bans on stuff like headwear on Muslims (unless it covers whole face for safety reasons)

 

If u tried to pass a law like that here in Ontario all hell would break loose 

[Guillaume Hamon 6,981]

3 minutes ago, Economy said:

Not Jewish Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

France tried to tax only that religion specifically and it was a high tax too

 

11 minutes ago, Economy said:

Well France seems to put pressure on groups that most developed nations don't and which ones qualify for the status of cults and not religions to some extent seems arbitrary

 

https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-07-12/french-want-make-society-safe-religion-banning-so-called-cults

Imo France is 100% right to not take any risk when it comes to any possible cults and the fact other developed nations trust these doesn't automatically mean we should.

This article discuss how France is being careful with scientology&Jehovah witness and these two organisations got a lot of accusations along the years so it has to be seriously considered.

So many countries let cults develop hugely and quickly destroying thousands of life before to be shut down if they ever are... It's sad but I prefer "too much checking" to avoid these dramas even if it means some people will pray at home before their church is deemed safe and can exist normally.

So this tax wasn't about bashing a religion and its believers but rather about bashing a sect, now it's all about the qualification of JW it and we heard a lot of opinions warning us about it...

29 minutes ago, Economy said:

I'm also not a fan of bans on stuff like headwear on Muslims (unless it covers whole face for safety reasons)

 

If u tried to pass a law like that here in Ontario all hell would break loose 

I agree for the face covering ones. In countries were we have more and more cameras filming us for security reasons I don't even see how clothes covering faces can be allowed. Maybe I miss something but it seems illogical.

 

[Economy 52,838]

5 minutes ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

 

Imo France is 100% right to not take any risk when it comes to any possible cults and the fact other developed nations trust these doesn't automatically mean we should.

This article discuss how France is being careful with scientology&Jehovah witness and these two organisations got a lot of accusations along the years so it has to be seriously considered.

So many countries let cults develop hugely and quickly destroying thousands of life before to be shut down if they ever are... It's sad but I prefer "too much checking" to avoid these dramas even if it means some people will pray at home before their church is deemed safe and can exist normally.

So this tax wasn't about bashing a religion and its believers but rather about bashing a sect, now it's all about the qualification of JW it and we heard a lot of opinions warning us about it...

I agree for the face covering ones. In countries were we have more and more cameras filming us for security reasons I don't even see how clothes covering faces can be allowed. Maybe I miss something but it seems illogical.

 

I'm sensitive about it because I have friends and family who are Jehovah's witnesses (including my boss) and there's a lot of misconceptions about them

 

And even tho they may not agree with homosexuality for example they are a lot less vocal and judgemental about it than most other religions I know like Muslims, born agains, Pentecostal...they won't make signs and protests or disrespect an LGBT like some ppl from other religions would

 

There's nothing about them that's so dangerous to ban

 

As for the Muslim head coverings I'm against banning the non facial covering ones

[Guillaume Hamon 6,981]

2 hours ago, Florian said:

And saying French governments not liking foreigners I have to laugh. That is RIDICULOUS. Our history is deeply rooted to immigration and a huge part of French population is from immigrants descent

Right?  Why does an european country have so many of their citizens from diverse origins if their governments dislike foreigners?

[Florian 20,017]

1 hour ago, Guillaume Hamon said:

Right?  Why does an european country have so many of their citizens from diverse origins if their governments dislike foreigners?

I mean yeah, 40% of French population has an immigrant background within the last 3 generations. That's a huge number. And the immigration from people from Europe and from outside of it is very homogenous. Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, North and Central Africa. French population is literally a product of immigration. And that's something amazing

[JustinTrudeau 2,419]

11 hours ago, Lemon Pie said:

Thank you very much for the information, but Canada has several regions or autonomous states or Quebec is just an exception?

Canada has 10 provinces and 3 territories. However, Quebec is often the black sheep in the family. While all the other regions have differences in laws and taxes, they tend to be similar to each other.

Plus, Quebec is the only province that have a French majority (you might count New Brunswick, but it's split 50/50 between French and English) so the people there have a different set of perspectives, as well as history.

We have a political party that advocates for separation of Quebec from the rest of Canada which, in my opinion, is dumb (especially the potential border issues, just take a look at the map). The party  never win majority on the federal level, but in 1995, the referendum to separate vs not separate was a really tight in the voting results (50.58% said no to separation).

[Economy 52,838]

2 hours ago, Florian said:

I mean yeah, 40% of French population has an immigrant background within the last 3 generations. That's a huge number. And the immigration from people from Europe and from outside of it is very homogenous. Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, North and Central Africa. French population is literally a product of immigration. And that's something amazing

Aren't most french immigrants from other European Nations tho?

[Economy 52,838]

12 hours ago, Lemon Pie said:

Thank you very much for the information, but Canada has several regions or autonomous states or Quebec is just an exception?

10 Provinces and 3 Territories

 

All regions have some degree of Autonomy for some spending, laws and taxes

 

But Quebec has special Autonomy. There's certain things that are normally a Federal matter in other Provinces but in Quebec they have their own system

 

Unemployment Insurance and Retirement System is just 2 examples