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Vatican: Non-binary gender is fictitious

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Morphine Prince
4 minutes ago, AlvariusFlame said:

What is exactly what society defines?

 

I mean. We're animals there are only two genders on this kingdom. The only thing what society defines is the name, male-female in English, macho-hembra Spanish etc. Anything else is fictional.

 

Unless you are a plant but... hey! they're also male-female at the same time. Hermafroditisme.  

 

You don't have to  debunk the nature/biology rules just because you can accept your gender, just because you can't accept you born that way.

 

But you can call yourself wherever you want, But still what you really are.

I’d advise people to learn the difference between sex and gender before commenting. 

To not post things like this. 

The friends I've had to bury, they keep me up at night
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davflz
4 minutes ago, AlvariusFlame said:

What is exactly what society defines?

I mean. We're animals there are only two genders on this kingdom. The only thing what society defines is the name, male-female in English, macho-hembra Spanish etc. Anything else is fictional.

Unless you are a plant but... hey! they're also male-female at the same time. Hermafroditisme.  

You don't have to  debunk the nature/biology rules just because you can accept your gender, just because you can't accept you born that way.

But you can call yourself wherever you want, But still what you really are.

Gender and Sex aren't the same thing.

Sex is mostly defined by nature, yes. We can observe that (within humans at least) male and female are the predominant categories. Though intersex people are very much biological proof that there is a grey area between the two.

Gender however is a social construct. A gender is a label (such a man and woman) that we put on people based on their sex. And though sex has always been the same, within history we have seen many societies recognize more than 2 genders.

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thewho
1 hour ago, davflz said:

your God is fictitious :laughga:

and that is the true TEA

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Faysalaaa

But it is fictitious, this does not mean they are not allowed to be none binary or respected. It also does not mean laws cant change to help none binary.

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Faysalaaa
9 hours ago, davflz said:

Gender and Sex aren't the same thing.

Sex is mostly defined by nature, yes. We can observe that (within humans at least) male and female are the predominant categories. Though intersex people are very much biological proof that there is a grey area between the two.

Gender however is a social construct. A gender is a label (such a man and woman) that we put on people based on their sex. And though sex has always been the same, within history we have seen many societies recognize more than 2 genders.

There are things that are social construct about gender but that does not mean gender is a social construct. Why cant you be a woman that is not effected or follows social constructs? instead of calling yourself something that does not exist? 

If gender is a social construct, then trans people are lying about feeling like the other sex.

Intersex is not proof of anything, intersex is someone who is between male and female, not none binary.

Edited by Faysalaaa
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benKo

Okay, there are males and females. Some males want to be females and the other way around and they get to do that. Until now it's still binary. There are some rare medical cases where someone is both.

Sexuality is a different thing, everybody can love and f*ck who they want to, I also get that part.

And where do we need other genders? I don't understand it.

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geopang
12 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

There are thing that are social construct about gender but that does not mean gender is a social construct. Why cant you be a woman that is not effected or follows social constructs? instead of calling yourself something that does not exist? 

If gender is a social construct, then trans people are lying about feeling like the other sex.

Intersex is not proof of anything, intersex is someone who is between male and female, not none binary.

Not to mention that intersex is a complete rarity, and considered a medical abnormality/anomaly. It’s not a gender. So these people trying to use intersex as if it’s proof of non-binary gender is just nonsensical.

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Jose P

The Vatican?

i dont know her mariah carey GIF

Since when does the Vatican’s opinions matter? 

Edited by Jose P
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Economy
1 hour ago, holy scheisse said:

Non binary = rejecting the "male/man" and "female/woman" genders

Cis people are those that are born with anatomy that matches the gender they identify with (a man born with male genitalia)

Oppositely, a trans man might be a man born with a female genitalia.

This is the part I never got. If gender is mostly a social construct... Then wouldnt being "transgendered" be a result of people not comforming to our societies expectations of what male and female is suppostu be?

 

I wonder if society was neutral if anyone would actually feel transgendered tbh

 

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davflz
17 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

There are thing that are social construct about gender but that does not mean gender is a social construct.

Why cant you be a woman that is not effected or follows society social constructs? instead of calling yourself something that does not exist? 

Intersex is not proof of anything, intersex is someone who is between male and female, not none binary.

1. I think of gender as a social construct that is partially influenced by biological sex. So most societies have the roles of a "man" and a "woman" because they recognized the distinctive sexes male & female. But there is more to it. When you think of a woman, you don't just think of someone with a vagina and XX chromosomes, do you? You also think of sterotypically feminine things such as long hair, dresses, makeup, shaved legs, high heels, etc. Those things however obviously are not rooted in biology and are just socially constructed ideas. And all of these expectations play a huge role in what "gender" is.

2. There is a difference between rejecting social norms and actually not identifying with your gender. Non-binary people aren't just girls who like having short hair or something. They actually feel a deeper rooted discomfort with their assigned gender (for multiple reasons) and can just live more comfortable outside the binary. To most NB people their gender indenty is something deeply rooted and not just a label to put on yourself for not conforming to social standards.

3. Intersex people are proof that within biological sex there is a grey area and not just male and female. If you translate that knowledge to gender identity, non-binary people make a lot of sense actually. If there are people who literally can't be classified as male or female from a biological standpoint, why wouldn't that also suggest that there are brains that aren't coded 100% male or female. Why would this fluidity of biology only affect chromosomes and genitalia, but not a persons brain and psychology?

Edited by davflz
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NewUsername
11 minutes ago, Faysalaaa said:

There are thing that are social construct about gender but that does not mean gender is a social construct. Why cant you be a woman that is not effected or follows social constructs? instead of calling yourself something that does not exist? 

If gender is a social construct, then trans people are lying about feeling like the other sex.

Intersex is not proof of anything, intersex is someone who is between male and female, not none binary.

 

4 minutes ago, benKo said:

Okay, there are males and females. Some males want to be females and the other way around and they get to do that. Until now it's still binary. There are some rare medical cases where someone is both.

Sexuality is a different thing, everybody can love and f*ck who they want to, I also get that part.

And where do we need other genders? I don't understand it.


Sex = biologically determined, either male or female. Plus the grey-zone = intersex people
Gender = how you feel, identify. Gender is a spectrum. For most people their sex and their gender coincide: male that feels like a male, female that feels like a female. BUT, given that's it's a spectrum (i.e. non binary) people can feel anywhere on the scale from male to female.

Just like sexuality is a spectrum. To put it simply, you can like women 100%, men 0% or the other way around; women 50% men 50%; women 30% men 70% or the other way around and so on.

A lot of things in nature are spectrums tbh.

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NewUsername
6 minutes ago, geopang said:

Not to mention that intersex is a complete rarity, and considered a medical abnormality/anomaly. It’s not a gender. So these people trying to use intersex as if it’s proof of non-binary gender is just nonsensical.

intersex is not a gender indeed. But those people DO feel a way, right (i.e. gender!)? And given they have no clear biological sex, it is at least proof that gender in itself exists.

It's not definitive proof of gender being a spectrum (=non-binary), but it IS for gender.

Edited by NewUsername

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mauvais
14 minutes ago, AlvariusFlame said:

What is exactly what society defines?

I mean. We're animals there are only two genders on this kingdom. The only thing what society defines is the name, male-female in English, macho-hembra Spanish etc. Anything else is fictional.

Unless you are a plant but... hey! they're also male-female at the same time. Hermafroditisme.  

You don't have to  debunk the nature/biology rules just because you can accept your gender, just because you can't accept you born that way.

But you can call yourself wherever you want, But still what you really are.

Animals don't have genders. The fact that we impose gender on, like, our house cats who don't give a f*ck just goes to show how we construct gender. If our gender schemata involve a male-female binary, we're the ones articulating and transmitting that ideal. We could just as easily incorporate a spectrum of genders in our gender schemata. 

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NewUsername
3 minutes ago, davflz said:

1. I think of gender as a social construct that is partially influenced by biological sex. So most societies have the roles of a "man" and a "woman" because they recognized the distinctive sexes male & female. But there is more to it. When you think of a woman, you don't just think of someone with a vagina and XX chromosomes, do you? You also think of sterotypically feminine things such as long hair, dresses, makeup, shaved legs, high heels, etc. Those things however obviously are not rooted in biology and are just socially constructed ideas. And all of these expectations that play a huge role into what "gender" is.

2. There is a difference between rejecting social norms and actually not identifying with your gender. Non-binary people aren't just girls who like having short hair or something. They actually feel a deeper rooted discomfort with their assigned gender (for multiple reasons) and can just live more comfortable outside the binary. To most NB people their gender indenty is something deeply rooted and not just a label to put on yourself for not conforming to social standards.

3. Intersex people are proof that within biological sex there is a grey area and not just male and female. If you translate that knowledge to gender identity, non-binary people make a lot of sense actually. If there are people who literally can't be classified as male or female from a biological standpoint, why wouldn't that also suggest that there are brains that aren't coded 100% male or female. Why would this fluidity of biology only affect chromosomes and genitalia, but not a persons brain and psychology?

Thanks! Your last paragraph and my last post go together!

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benKo
1 minute ago, NewUsername said:

 


Sex = biologically determined, either male or female. Plus the grey-zone = intersex people
Gender = how you feel, identify. Gender is a spectrum. For most people their sex and their gender coincide: male that feels like a male, female that feels like a female. BUT, given that's it's a spectrum (i.e. non binary) people can feel anywhere on the scale from male to female.

Just like sexuality is a spectrum. To put it simply, you can like women 100%, men 0% or the other way around; women 50% men 50%; women 30% men 70% or the other way around and so on.

A lot of things in nature are spectrums tbh.

If it is how you say it, gender is pretty much irrelevant to the law. There have always been men who are more feminine then others. So what? They still go to the mens bathroom and are men infront of the law.

In this case I don't understand the discussion. It's nothing new, that there are different personalities.

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