Wade Robson and James Safechuck for BB

[sipthistea 21,099]

I can't honestly take them seriously. Why would you do a photoshoot about this? 

This is pure spectacle. I wonder how much they're getting paid for this. 

[Ayria 463]

Just now, darkpaw said:

Then why was he not found guilty? And I honestly don’t see anything wrong with someone kissing their own child on the mouth. If you don’t wanna see that they’re being paid for these interviews then that’s you choosing to put blinders on. 

Because the criminal justice system isn’t perfect? And the 2005 case was weak. Not guilty =/= innocent, it can also mean that the prosecution didn’t prove their case, or the jury had reasonable doubt. James Safechuck testified that he saw MJ kissing his son on the mouth, not that he did. Any proof for the payment? And I don’t see anything wrong with it if they were, it’s not like they’re making huge money from a few interviews. 

[Ayria 463]

Just now, sipthistea said:

I can't honestly take them seriously. Why would you do a photoshoot about this? 

This is pure spectacle. I wonder how much they're getting paid for this. 

They are promoting a documentary? Do you have a problem with this photo shoot too? 

Do you have any evidence of them being paid? 

[Antoni 5,332]

Ya'll should take my advice and just hide @nicolasrumet posts. I've hidden his posts to avoid his never-ending arguments. That's all he does in these MJ threads is find reasons to defend MJ.

On topic: Wade is cute. 

[Ayria 463]

I feel weird saying this about him after watching Leaving Neverland but damn James is so hot.  Divorce your wife, I’m bored. 

[Sakrai 4,759]

58 minutes ago, Ayria said:

Ok but do you think bed sharing, handholding, kissing kids on the lips and parental isolation is appropriate? 

Thanks for asking me! And no. I don’t think it’s appropriate. 

45 minutes ago, Ayria said:

What would constitute proof for you though? Video footage? I don’t think we should expect victims of csa to have taped it to make allegations. 

Not that it matters what I personally think constitutes legal proof, that’s not how this works, but you need to remember that these allegations are not new. These exact people were brought forth in a massive, (and I really mean massive) investigation regarding MJ’s behavior that lasted more than 10 YEARS of constant raids to his house, FBI officers following him around, intercepting his calls, you name it, and no evidence that supported a case of child molestation was ever found, despite the MILLIONS  of dollars poured into finding these very evidences.

What would constitute as proof? I don’t know, honestly, but attorneys and FBI officials damn well know, and they couldn’t find it. And that is a fact.

[Ayria 463]

4 minutes ago, Sakrai said:

Thanks for asking me! And no. I don’t think it’s appropriate. 

Not that it matters what I personally think constitutes legal proof, that’s not how this works, but you need to remember that these allegations are not new. These exact people were brought forth in a massive, (and I really mean massive) investigation regarding MJ’s behavior that lasted more than 10 YEARS of constant raids to his house, FBI officers following him around, intercepting his calls, you name it, and no evidence that supported a case of child molestation was ever found, despite the MILLIONS  of dollars poured into finding these very evidences.

What would constitute as proof? I don’t know, honestly, but attorneys and FBI officials damn well know, and they couldn’t find it. And that is a fact.

Where is an official FBI source that says he was investigated for ten years? Neverland was raided and they discovered books of child nudity, **** within the reach of children and hidden rooms and the alarm system outside of MJ’s room but where is the evidence of this ten year investigation that MJ stans claim took place? From my research the FBI only investigated him twice and once was unrelated to the child abuse allegations, and the one for the child abuse allegations was them providing assistance to the LAPD, not a full blown investigation that lasted a decade. 

[Epione 10,896]

47 minutes ago, Timmers said:

Ya'll should take my advice and just hide @nicolasrumet posts. I've hidden his posts to avoid his never-ending arguments. That's all he does in these MJ threads is find reasons to defend MJ.

On topic: Wade is cute. 

I hope you mean grown up Wade.  We don't need peterpan 2.0 mess.

[Sakrai 4,759]

31 minutes ago, Ayria said:

Where is an official FBI source that says he was investigated for ten years? Neverland was raided and they discovered books of child nudity, **** within the reach of children and hidden rooms and the alarm system outside of MJ’s room but where is the evidence of this ten year investigation that MJ stans claim took place? From my research the FBI only investigated him twice and once was unrelated to the child abuse allegations, and the one for the child abuse allegations was them providing assistance to the LAPD, not a full blown investigation that lasted a decade. 

I appreciate your interest in this case but unfortunately I’m really not the person you should be asking these questions to. If you have issues with the way the FBI worked here write them a letter, because I’m not really sure myself how to come by these kinds of documents, as I have never searched for them myself, because I really, genuinely, don’t care about MJ. 

What I do know is that the first documented child molestation allegation against him was in 1993, and throughout the following decade i know for a fact that Michael did mention several times that he was being followed, spied, and stuff like that. The allegations against Michael never really subsided, and over a decade later he we was brought to court with all the evidence the FBI has collected from 1993 to 2004. And I guess you know what happened in that trial. No evidence could be brought forth that proved the case for child molestation. And that was my point. Nothing more than that thankyouverymuch.

Last note: I said no evidence was found in the spirit of honest discussion and fairness, not to defend him in any way (I have made my views on this issue clear in other threads in GGD, so i won’t repeat myself here), so please don’t try to throw me into a group of people I don’t agree with.

[Ayria 463]

Just now, Sakrai said:

I appreciate your interest in this case but unfortunately I’m really not the person you should be asking these questions to. If you have issues with the way the FBI worked here write them a letter, because I’m not really sure myself how to come by these kinds of documents, as I have never searched for them myself, because I really, genuinely, don’t care about MJ. 

What I do know is that the first documented child molestation allegation against him was in 1993, and throughout the following decade i know for a fact that Michael did mention several times that he was being followed, spied, and stuff like that. The allegations against Michael never really subsided, and over a decade later he we was brought to court with all the evidence the FBI has collected from 1993 to 2004. And I guess you know what happened in that trial. No evidence could be brought forward that proved the case for child molestation. And that was my point. Nothing more than that thankyouverymuch.

Last note: I said no evidence was found in the spirit of honest discussion and fairness, not to defend him in any way (I have made my views on this issue clear in other threads in GGD, so i won’t repeat myself here), so please don’t try to throw me into a group of people I don’t agree with.

I understand this argument, but its pretty damaging to say “no evidence” was found whatsoever. When we say that we tell victims their testimony isn’t evidence, that behavioral patterns are not evidence, that evidence only includes things that lead to a guilty verdict in a court of law. I think Leaving Neverland had an array of evidence that would lead one to the conclusion that MJ was indeed guilty and the Michael claimed he only had two plastic surgeries and his album doing poorly in the US was a conspiracy. I don’t take what he says at face value and find him more unreliable than James or Wade. Glad you’re not defending him. 

[Sakrai 4,759]

5 minutes ago, Ayria said:

I understand this argument, but its pretty damaging to say “no evidence” was found whatsoever. When we say that we tell victims their testimony isn’t evidence, that behavioral patterns are not evidence, that evidence only includes things that lead to a guilty verdict in a court of law. I think Leaving Neverland had an array of evidence that would lead one to the conclusion that MJ was indeed guilty and the Michael claimed he only had two plastic surgeries and his album doing poorly in the US was a conspiracy. I don’t take what he says at face value and find him more unreliable than James or Wade. Glad you’re not defending him. 

I agree with you, and I guess we’re looking at a much bigger problem than just this case. That is, the nature of our judicial system which, if I’m allowed a personal opinion, I believe the whole point is to allow this kind of damaging protocols you don’t agree with, in order to allow powerful people to circumvent them, because the powerful want a way to be above the law. I think the whole point is that the law is intentionally made faulty like that. 

However, the very people you claim should count as evidence DID provide their evidence AGAINST the accusations in the past, very explicitly, so what are we really supposed to do about that? Make the law flexible to the whim of anyone who chooses to claim something? 

My point here is, the law is totally f*cked up, but making legal decisions based on the words of a person is not the solution either, as it opens the door to countless exploits as well. If you choose to take their word for it this time around, go ahead, you’re free to do it, but people who support Michael are not wrong for wanting more than words before changing their opinion so radically, and you cannot blame them for that.

[Ayria 463]

Just now, Sakrai said:

I agree with you, and I guess we’re looking at a much bigger problem than just this case. That is, the nature of our judicial system which, if I’m allowed a personal opinion, I believe the whole point is to allow this kind of damaging protocols you don’t agree with, in order to allow powerful people to circumvent them, because the powerful want a way to be above the law. I think the whole point is that the law is intentionally made faulty like that. 

However, the very people you claim should count as evidence DID provide their evidence AGAINST the accusations in the past, very explicitly, so what are we really supposed to do about that? Make the law flexible to the whim of anyone who chooses to claim something? 

My point here is, the law is totally f*cked up, but making legal decisions based on the words of a person is not the solution either, as it opens the door to countless exploits as well. If you choose to take their word for it this time around, go ahead, you’re free to do it, but people who support Michael are not wrong for wanting more than words before changing their opinion so radically, and you cannot blame them for that.

To respond to your second paragraph, only adult Wade testified in favor of Michael. James only did as a young teen I think? That’s not something we need to hold against someone. Even wade was only 21 at the time he testified in the 2005 trial and this is still relatively young for someone who was allegedly abused from ages 7-14.

[Levine 18,390]

Legends!

[Othon 32,267]

1 hour ago, Timmers said:

Ya'll should take my advice and just hide @nicolasrumet posts. I've hidden his posts to avoid his never-ending arguments. That's all he does in these MJ threads is find reasons to defend MJ.

I just had to do that myself. He's insane. He's literally going through completely unrelated posts of mine and giving me "sad" reactions because I responded negatively to his posts in this thread.

[Antoni 5,332]

1 hour ago, OG Gaga Stan said:

I just had to do that myself. He's insane. He's literally going through completely unrelated posts of mine and giving me "sad" reactions because I responded negatively to his posts in this thread.

Poor guy has nothing better to do