ALGAYDO 35,046 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 39 minutes ago, Pacify Him said: Because we simply can’t stop letting in too many illegal immigrants Yikes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 52,835 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Eighteen said: we have rent control in areas of honolulu. it can work if done the right way. it does here. Based on what I googled it seemed like Honolulu is debating rent controls not that it's actually in place or thats what I understood from it Anyway if a specific city with 350,000 people like Honolulu does it (on top of that you said only in parts) that doesn't affect enough market to see a significant amount of downsides Toronto is 6 million people that's a much larger market to look at and I can tell you price rental controls here have caused more harm than good Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eighteen 5,430 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, Economy said: Based on what I googled it seemed like Honolulu is debating rent controls not that it's actually in place or thats what I understood from it Anyway if a specific city with 350,000 people like Honolulu does it (on top of that you said only in parts) that doesn't affect enough market to see a significant amount of downsides Toronto is 6 million people that's a much larger market to look at and I can tell you price rental controls here have caused more harm than good yea it is very small areas. they're subsidized by private investors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woolfsmck 2,763 Posted January 14, 2019 Author Share Posted January 14, 2019 10 minutes ago, Eighteen said: we have rent control in areas of honolulu. it can work if done the right way. it does here. Hawaii is a pretty unique real estate market ...plus the native population and property owners are very close nit. It hardly applies to mainlanders or foreign housing like a cat in a sil, I observe life, moving and still. My words give a clue,look inside to see whats true Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 52,835 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, Woolfsmck said: Hawaii is a pretty unique real estate market ...plus the native population and property owners are very close nit. It hardly applies to mainlanders or foreign housing Plus it's in small pockets he just said it himself To affect a real estate market as a whole negatively you'd need to cover more of it with price rent controls so I'm not sure the Honolulu example qualifies Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emvee 8,825 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Economy said: I never said they would start building out of the goodness of their heart. Their in it for the profit and that's my point When you put limits on how much they can raise rent your putting limits on their potential profits thus hurting incentive to build rentals As I said we saw that first hand here in Ontario/Toronto All rentals built after the 1990s are subject to rental controls and what we've seen is much less construction for rentals and instead they build more condos which if they are to be rented it has to be by an individual landlord and individual rented out condos are less affordable than rental purpose built housing/apartments I just think this is doing more harm than good If he had more supply I don't think rents would be skyrocketing as much as they are. I wasn’t suggesting that you said that. We are looking at it from two completely different angles, though, which both have merit. In California, the opposite is actually happening. In the 90’s, politicians started undoing rent control to encourage more housing. No new construction can be subject to rent control. It’s 2019 and California is still in a crisis. Rent Control is put in place to begin with because there are flaws with the free market- governments saw a need to protect tenants from rising cost. Rent control had no part in those original housing crises. The market did nothing to equalize. You can not rely on the free market to correct itself. At the end of the day, proponents and opponents of rent control are speaking theoretically. You can’t prove any of this- we merely base our opinion on economic ideology. Show me an actual study that proves getting rid of rent control wouldn’t actually displace thousands more people overnight. That it wouldn’t increase racial segregation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 52,835 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, Postboy said: I wasn’t suggesting that you said that. We are looking at it from two completely angles, though, which both have merit. In California, the opposite is actually happening. In the 90’s, politicians actually started undoing rent control to encourage more housing. No new construction can be subject to rent control. It’s 2019 and California is still in a crisis. Rent Control is put in place to begin with because there are flaws with the free market- governments saw a need to protect tenants from rising cost. Rent control had no part in those original housing crises. The market did nothing to equalize. You can not rely on the free market to correct itself. At the end of the day, proponents and opponents of rent control are speaking theoretically. You can’t prove any of this- we merely base our opinion on economic ideology. Show me an actual study that shows that proves getting rid of rent control wouldn’t actually displace thousands more people overnight. That it wouldn’t increase racial segregation. I don't think the free market is perfect either but I just think that often trying to micromanage with regulation makes it even worse As for a study I don't know of one tbh I just know rental supply has consistently lagged population growth even worse than condos and regular houses As for California being in housing crisis Other factors create housing crisis besides controls. We have serious issues here in Canada too with vacancies at historic lows and construction not keeping up with population growth Many blame restrictive zoning laws and complicated and slow construction permit approvals as stiffling construction. Could something similar be happening in California? The housing market in general is in severe shortage but rental specifically is even worse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emvee 8,825 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 12 minutes ago, Economy said: I don't think the free market is perfect either but I just think that often trying to micromanage with regulation makes it even worse As for a study I don't know of one tbh I just know rental supply has consistently lagged population growth even worse than condos and regular houses As for California being in housing crisis Other factors create housing crisis besides controls. We have serious issues here in Canada too with vacancies at historic lows and construction not keeping up with population growth Many blame restrictive zoning laws and complicated and slow construction permit approvals as stiffling construction. Could something similar be happening in California? The housing market in general is in severe shortage but rental specifically is even worse Yes, I blame restrictive zoning laws in California also. Land use decisions here in San Francisco are left to neighborhoods when it should really be up to the city and the region to decide. Wealthy and powerful neighborhoods have had a hand in preventing new housing being built anywhere near them. I don’t know... part of me thinks housing should be viewed as part of infrastructure. There needs to be a coherent state or city-level plan for new development. Whatever your opinion is on what the problem and/or solution is- lack of stability in the housing market hinders economic activity in a city or region and should be taken more seriously by governments. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 52,835 Posted January 14, 2019 Share Posted January 14, 2019 Just now, Postboy said: Yes, I blame restrictive zoning laws in California also. Land use decisions here in San Francisco are left to neighborhoods when it should really be up to the city and the region to decide. Wealthy and powerful neighborhoods have had a hand in preventing new housing being built anywhere near them. I don’t know... part of me thinks housing should be viewed as part of infrastructure. There needs to be a coherent state or city-level plan for new development. Whatever your opinion is on what the problem and/or solution is- lack of stability in the housing market hinders economic activity in a city or region and should be taken more seriously by governments. Yes I agree 100% Here in Canada cities like Toronto and Vancouver that are beyond unaffordable it has started to create secondary problems... Families are being pushed further and further into the suburbs causing long commute times to work and traffic and commute times in Toronto have become one of the worst in the world (top 5 worst by many rankings) Also we now have delayed household formation as more 30 year olds stay living with parents and fewer children are being born further worsening the aging population issue Also a lot of high-tech jobs that are booming downtown require new skilled labor but young people are being pushed out of the city creating a work mismatch as young ones leave the city cores that have their best opportunities yet companies struggle to find their young talent that is fleeing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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