I Feel Gaga is In a Conundrum

[Bel Esprit 669]

3 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Gaga's problem has always been moving from one project to another. Her entire brand is based on defying public expectations, transcending them. That's a tough act to follow up on.

The way I see it, her career started falling apart in early 2010 already. She became so fan-focused, constantly feeding this image of "you have to be gay/bullied/artistic/fashion obsessed/... in order to be a fan of Lady Gaga" in every video, performance, and interview, that she just stopped being a public commodity. She became a fan act, and the world noticed, and moved on.

Ever since 2013 she and her team have realized that being a fan act is not gonna cut it. She's tried very hard to win the public back, and she's done that, so applause to her and her team. She may have broken most promises and morals she's once claimed to stand for, but nobody but the fans will notice that. So I don't think your analysis really holds up in the "real world". Switching from one style of branding to another is actually a great idea for her, not a failure.

What you and other fans fail to notice is how her success relies on constantly changing, without any moral or artistic compass. If she'd stop doing that for just a second (like she did between 2011 and 2013) the world would realize there's actually nothing to see. She doesn't have a brand, never did. Her only identification is the fact that she'll do something different from everybody else. That's how people have known and continue to know Gaga, and it's the only reason people take notice of her (that might sound cruel, but I think it's true).

She's skyrocketing rn. And I'm quite proud of her for doing that. But yeah, the disillusion is coming for many fans who were emotionally attached to her journey. Now they have to come to terms with the fact that more than anything, she's a businesswoman, and her love and care is reserved for her actual family and friends now, not us, the people she swore allegiance to. It's time we realize her love for her fans is and has always been very limited, and has mostly benefited her in terms of commercial success. Sure, she'll try to sustain some kind of contact with us, because having a loyal fanbase is just smart. But we'll never get her back. She just tricked us too well into thinking we had her at all.

I disagree, Gaga had a very clear brand early on. Dance pop hits, avant garde fashion and music video short films. Her brand was the auteur popstar, the postmodern popstar. I think Gaga's fan base love wasn't as much of a problem as you seem to think. It might've been too much, but it's become a must for any popstar. To have a fan base name, to stay in touch, at least in pop. Taylor Swift did the same thing by getting on tumblr, inviting fans to her house, interacting, giving them a nickname. It's not a huge problem really. I think Gaga needs to reassert CrazyGa next era, because pop culture is as boring as watching paint dry right now, and we need a shake up. 

[Haralampos 2,063]

I can accept that she's done everything in the term of pop and she's evolving thru different paths as she always was in some point. If I consider that her health can't help her doing what a typical pop star does. I'm still confused about her statements. I don't even recognise her face. She tried to teach us to accept ourselves.

[Didymus 34,379]

Just now, Bel Esprit said:

I disagree, Gaga had a very clear brand early on. Dance pop hits, avant garde fashion and music video short films. Her brand was the auteur popstar, the postmodern popstar.

Well, sure, but the problem with being an auteur pop star is that you can't make Poker Face ten times in a row. She always had to come out of nowhere like she debuted, with a new and fascinating sound and an unexpected and unique presentation. That's what I mean with: she always had to defy public expectation. If she even thought of making Bad Romance twice her career would've flatlined immediately.

2 minutes ago, Bel Esprit said:

I think Gaga's fan base love wasn't as much of a problem as you seem to think. It might've been too much, but it's become a must for any popstar. To have a fan base name, to stay in touch, at least in pop.

Maybe, but you can't forget that nowadays pop stars are just décor for DJ instrumentals. Back in 2008 and 2009 pop stars were still the ****. They were cool, and people were talking about them. They were mainstream, not for weirdos to pay attention to like today.

Like, look at her first Glastonbury performance. That crowd was full of... normal people. These weren't the days of people dressing up in police tape because they were "Little Monsters". Lady Gaga was for everyone, making hits for everyone, performing for everyone, and everyone was in for the game. That stopped dramatically when it became clear she only wanted to perform and write for a select group of people. Her fans that everyone made fun of Suddenly it wasn't cool anymore to talk about Gaga, even listen to her. If you would, you'd expose yourself as either gay or just someone you don't hang out with... not exactly great marketing.

Anyway, that's been my experience. I noticed it very clearly in my environment. Might not be the same everywhere.

8 minutes ago, Bel Esprit said:

I think Gaga needs to reassert CrazyGa next era, because pop culture is as boring as watching paint dry right now, and we need a shake up. 

Won't work anymore. People don't care about pop stars being weird anymore. They don't respect pop stars at all. Her only route is acting. That's truly what I believe.

[flopheart 1,865]

she's growing up, she's a woman, i don't want her to be like Madonna for example, a mature pop star who try to be liked by a younger public. I would be happy if her next albums will all be like ASIB soundtrack and jazz. 

[ShockPop 7,747]

She can do it all. Her genre is every genre.

If you know ANYONE that only likes one style of music then call the police because that is not a real human.

[Leblanc 2,454]

18 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Gaga's problem has always been moving from one project to another. Her entire brand is based on defying public expectations, transcending them. That's a tough act to follow up on.

The way I see it, her career started falling apart in early 2010 already. She became so fan-focused, constantly feeding this image of "you have to be gay/bullied/artistic/fashion obsessed/... in order to be a fan of Lady Gaga" in every video, performance, and interview, that she just stopped being a public commodity. She became a fan act, and the world noticed, and moved on.

Ever since 2013 she and her team have realized that being a fan act is not gonna cut it. She's tried very hard to win the public back, and she's done that, so applause to her and her team. She may have broken most promises and morals she's once claimed to stand for, but nobody but the fans will notice that. So I don't think your analysis really holds up in the "real world". Switching from one style of branding to another is actually a great idea for her, not a failure.

What you and other fans fail to notice is how her success relies on constantly changing, without any moral or artistic compass. If she'd stop doing that for just a second (like she did between 2011 and 2013) the world would realize there's actually nothing to see. She doesn't have a brand, never did. Her only identification is the fact that she'll do something different from everybody else. That's how people have known and continue to know Gaga, and it's the only reason people take notice of her (that might sound cruel, but I think it's true).

She's skyrocketing rn. And I'm quite proud of her for doing that. But yeah, the disillusion is coming for many fans who were emotionally attached to her journey. Now they have to come to terms with the fact that more than anything, she's a businesswoman, and her love and care is reserved for her actual family and friends now, not us, the people she swore allegiance to. It's time we realize her love for her fans is and has always been very limited, and has mostly benefited her in terms of commercial success. Sure, she'll try to sustain some kind of contact with us, because having a loyal fanbase is just smart. But we'll never get her back. She just tricked us too well into thinking we had her at all.

Well damn.

This kinda hit hard. Tbh even if this were true then it personally doesn't change anything for me. I never really ran around believing she super cared about me or whatever. She is just the Artist I care most about and tbh the only celebrity that I really care to see what they're up to.

I've loved every single era of hers for what it was and hopefully that wont change.

[Bel Esprit 669]

4 minutes ago, Didymus said:

Well, sure, but the problem with being an auteur pop star is that you can't make Poker Face ten times in a row. She always had to come out of nowhere like she debuted, with a new and fascinating sound and an unexpected and unique presentation. That's what I mean with: she always had to defy public expectation. If she even thought of making Bad Romance twice her career would've flatlined immediately.

Maybe, but you can't forget that nowadays pop stars are just décor for DJ instrumentals. Back in 2008 and 2009 pop stars were still the ****. They were cool, and people were talking about them. They were mainstream, not for weirdos to pay attention to like today.

Like, look at her first Glastonbury performance. That crowd was full of... normal people. These weren't the days of people dressing up in police tape because they were "Little Monsters". Lady Gaga was for everyone, making hits for everyone, performing for everyone, and everyone was in for the game. That stopped dramatically when it became clear she only wanted to perform and write for a select group of people. Her fans that everyone made fun of Suddenly it wasn't cool anymore to talk about Gaga, even listen to her. If you would, you'd expose yourself as either gay or just someone you don't hang out with... not exactly great marketing.

Anyway, that's been my experience. I noticed it very clearly in my environment. Might not be the same everywhere.

Won't work anymore. People don't care about pop stars being weird anymore. They don't respect pop stars at all. Her only route is acting. That's truly what I believe.

I don't think the fan base was the problem, it was BTW album and era alienating the public and officially making her a gay artist, but at the same time I think pop culture will shift to being all about gay culture in the next few years in the same way black culture has been dominating. Then I think we'll see a resurgence of pop stars. 

[Didymus 34,379]

4 minutes ago, flopheart said:

she's growing up, she's a woman, i don't want her to be like Madonna for example, a mature pop star who try to be liked by a younger public. I would be happy if her next albums will all be like ASIB soundtrack and jazz. 

Well, to be fair, Madonna only did that after being in the business for 30 years She was 50 when she lost touch with the public and wasn't able to command mass attention anymore. We'll see what Gaga does at that age, it's too soon to tell.

[Bel Esprit 669]

8 minutes ago, flopheart said:

she's growing up, she's a woman, i don't want her to be like Madonna for example, a mature pop star who try to be liked by a younger public. I would be happy if her next albums will all be like ASIB soundtrack and jazz. 

I don't want Gaga to make an MDNA or force her tongue down Drake's throat, but who is to say Gaga can't make electronic or mature pop at Madonna's age? But I have a feeling Gaga will be doing a Ryan Murphy show or on Broadway at that point. 

[Didymus 34,379]

Just now, Bel Esprit said:

I don't think the fan base was the problem, it was BTW album and era alienating the public and officially making her a gay artist

Maybe. It's definitely a popular fan theory. But personally, I already saw the first signs of public disinterest during the Telephone music video era. For many people it was too over the top and the shtick of dramatic fashion and sexual provocation was becoming predictable and boring.

Her Monster Ball 2.0 tour was also not very inviting on a general public level. The element of constant preaching crept in during this time, she was constantly doing interviews where she repeated her fans (who were getting a reputation of dressing up for her shows and being all-round weird and freaky) were her life, and the show itself didn't offer anything new or exciting for a casual public to talk about (while in 1.0 there was).

For me, that's the beginning of the end. That divide is what alienated a lot of people, BTW just put a stamp on that process. My take on it.

[Haralampos 2,063]

14 minutes ago, flopheart said:

she's growing up, she's a woman, i don't want her to be like Madonna for example, a mature pop star who try to be liked by a younger public. I would be happy if her next albums will all be like ASIB soundtrack and jazz. 

She's only 32 by the way and in almost 12-year career Madonna started to change too (Evita, Ray of Light), so we don't know. But I don't want too.

[Bio 23,538]

People need to understand that C2C SAVED her career. If she came out in 2015 with another crazy EDM record her career would be over.

[KURUSHITOVSKA 20,451]

Madonna shifted from rock to pop to house to disco to jazz, from weird and extra to sexual to blond to dark hair and she's still here

[AStarIsBorn21 3,714]

I want to meantion that Gaga has ALWAYS been apposed to people getting used to her image/sound. Even back in 2009 she said (loosely quoted) “when you think you know Lady Gaga... I want to remind you that you don’t”. The thing witt TF/TFM is that they’re supposed to be compatible albums, and I think the only huge mistake in her career is that she released them at the beginning of her career. The change from FT to TFM, while visual was huge, didn’t make people say “Wait that’s Lady Gaga?” when hearing the radio. BTW, luckily, is another sound and image, and the GP will hear her singing TEOG, Y&I, etc. (which were hits) and actually say “Wait that’s a Lady Gaga song?”. I think as long as she maintains that shock value of people not knowing it’s her, she’ll always be “classic Gaga”. DWUW, Million Reasons, Shallow, etc. all are hits and, as far as I know, (based off GP reactions and even my friends) a lot of people who enjoy these songs had no idea it was Gaga that sang them. 

[gag 22,449]

1 hour ago, Didymus said:

Sure, she'll try to sustain some kind of contact with us, because having a loyal fanbase is just smart. But we'll never get her back. She just tricked us too well into thinking we had her at all.

I'm sorry... the dramatics...