Hillary Clinton: "Europe must curb immigration to stop rightwing populists"

[Gov Hooka 8,008]

5 hours ago, SKANK said:

That sounds like something that a politician would say if they were planing to run a campaign against a fascist but still wanted to appeal to rational conservatives, independents, and centrists.

Third times the charm, so they say.

This. Idk if she’s trying to polish up her image in preparation for another failed presidential run smh 

[Othon 34,299]

The ignorance in this thread is just... revolting.

The refugees she's referring to are escaping regions destabilized and destroyed by the U.S.'s interventionist wars, wars SHE supported and numerous European countries got on board with, wars that killed countless innocent people who died for the crime of EXISTING within those nations. She helped put these refugees in this position, advocated for the decisions that made them refugees in the first place. Arguing that Europe should start turning them away, condemning them to death in the ruins of their bombed-out homes, all to appease right-wingers by giving them EXACTLY what they want, is hideous and indefensible. Anyone championing this either 1) has absolutely no idea what they're talking about or 2) is openly on the side of the neo-nazis and xenophobes. Several of the comments in this thread aren't even subtle.

I've read a lot of disturbing nonsense on this site, but this truly turned my stomach.

[Adakam 2]

I agree with her reasoning, not with her solution. Turning refugees away is just inhumane, but they can indeed become a problem.

Why dont we start by doing the right thing all over the world to stop this madness, these wars, and make this kind of migration unnecessary. All everybody does is to have useless, endless wars that cost the world an unthinkable amount of money and death.

Refugees are just the extreme consequences of the wars that 1st world countries have created.

 

[Manul 7,377]

9 hours ago, OBEY said:

Idk if true but I heard some people say that crimes and violence is rising a lot in some European places/countries where they left lots of immigrants in. These factors are sometimes due to different cultures or poverty, I think. Is this accurate? I've never been to Europe and I didn’t really search on the matter  

In Germany it is, from what I've heard and what I've seen. Hate crimes, sexual assaults, a slow cultural shift towards the negative that is happening right now, other bad stuff too. Some laws changed too afaik, and more than often you see refugees willingly get "stuck" in language courses or stuff like that, so they can get support from the government while they skip classes, do nothing while roaming around malls with their iPhones and SGs, living their best lifes. Many 30+ y/o's pretending to be underage to gain those benefits too. Germany should have pulled the plug long ago tbh, already done more than enough.

Also, I don't understand the entitlement of some people. No, it is absolutely not the US or EU citizens' responsibility to endure the backwards mentality and wrong-doings of said refugees because the governments messed up. The mentality of "our people suffered, so if yours do too, it's well deserved", even though the citizens did nothing wrong, sounds so primitive and spiteful to me. It's not fun seeing guys that simply look feminine (or guys that just have piercings, or some good fashion sense) get verbally abused for looking "gay", watching women get catcalled or even stalked by these guys who are trying to be "macho" and even watching people get attacked, it's just not a pretty sight at all. And my personal favorite, getting stared/trash talked by groups of giggling women while out with your SO or friend and you dare to get intimate.

And another bad thing is that it is causing neo-nazi parties and politicians like Trump to gain popularity. People are like "unconditional support" and then when "Trumps" become presidents as the result, everybody is suddenly the pikachu meme.

[gagzus 22,926]

The real tea is that people here in Europe hate migrants MAINLY because they’re not white, most of the hatred and generalisation towards migrants is towards people of colour from the Middle East and Africa. We’re a lot more subtle in our racism, but it’s still racism non the less.

Brexit for example was literally BUILT around a lie that was fundamentally racist and wasn’t even really about EU policy it was about national health services (which ended up being a lie) and trying to keep non white people out of Britain. Pure and simple andit pisses me off that people can’t see that.

[Benji 20,113]

1 hour ago, gagzus said:

The real tea is that people here in Europe hate migrants MAINLY because they’re not white, most of the hatred and generalisation towards migrants is towards people of colour from the Middle East and Africa. We’re a lot more subtle in our racism, but it’s still racism non the less.

Brexit for example was literally BUILT around a lie that was fundamentally racist and wasn’t even really about EU policy it was about national health services (which ended up being a lie) and trying to keep non white people out of Britain. Pure and simple andit pisses me off that people can’t see that.

I don’t know what the rest of Europe is like but you’re very misguided on the Brexit result.

Brexit is happening because of years of austerity, decline in industry, rising house prices and wage stagnation.  Some of these issues have been exacerbated by being a member of the EU but a lot of it falls on years of incompetent governments of which the people wanted to shake up.

Yes, there are people who voted on immigration alone but even they have a point.  We’ve seen a huge number of immigrants come to the U.K. with nothing to their name who accept any job they can.  That sounds great until you realise that immigration of low skilled workers has created a culture where there rights as workers are not respected by companies and they’re basically taking entire professions away from people native to the United Kingdom.  I’ll use cleaners as an example, a lot of cleaners now work absurd hours and have their wages docked to live in sh*itholes across the country.  I’ve worked for companies that use these cleaning services who even acknowledged that the cleaners (all immigrants) looked exhausted and ill but they’re cheap and do an okay job.  These people have accepted absolutely dire and illegal jobs because they’re not equipped enough to work other jobs and if they complain, they’ll be homeless.

On the topic on industry, look into fishing.  There’s a reason fishing towns voted to leave and that’s because of the restrictions the EU has put on us fishing in our own waters.

England has become very London centric, leaving some areas that were once booming to deteriate.  Not the EU’s fault but that certainly had a huge impact on the vote.

It’s also worth remembering we only joined the EU when it was nothing but a trading block.  We didn’t vote to join a political union.  Many people didn’t even want to join then so you can imagine the effect that the EU changing over the years has had on people.

 

I voted to remain and so did my city, but I can completely understand why people voted to leave and even I was / still am on the fence about what is best for the people of this country.  If Brexit needs to happen for our future governments to get their asses in gear then it needs to happen.

[Henri Bardot 3,990]

11 hours ago, lego said:

 

You think this would stop? 

 

 

It's so funny cause Italians were considered the trash of Europe 100 years ago lmao. 

When they migrated to America because their country was so poor, they were really discriminated and treated like ****, they lived in little appartements with 5-10 people in them and everything was unsanitary, and Americans thought that everyone was part of the mafia (what a surprise). 

100 years ago they would have been working in Luxembourgish, German, French or American factories. 

These people need to learn history. 

[Henri Bardot 3,990]

I mean, she's kinda right. 

Europe ****ed up, and now they're seeing the consequences of letting in +1 million people without any type of control. 

However, this has happened so many times in history that it's predictable what will happen. 

People from poor countries emigrate to rich countries, so the rich don't need to work in factories... 

This happened 100 years ago, 200 years ago, 300 years ago... 

Portuguese, Spanish, Italians, Germans, British... 

 

[Moo 2,082]

11 hours ago, Alii said:

I don’t understand why most leftists are very pro-immigration. 

What is so good about filling up progressive countries with millions of people who believe that women should be covered from head to tie next to their almost naked husbands? 

People are equal. Cultures aren’t. Some countries are still living in the middle ages. I don’t see how millions of people from countries where the majority believe that LGBT should be killed or undergo therapy could integrate in populations where majority support same-sex marriage. How would not this cause a rise in right-wing support? 

 

That shouldn’t come into account when these people are fleeing wars and corruption. 

If your home was being destroyed, you’d want other counties to accept you so you had a way to escape. The sad thing is the majority of these wars were either backed by the us, or catalysed by American intervention. 

Immigrants aren’t suddnetly going to change the laws of Europe, ban same sex marriage or whatever. They still come to live under our laws and they know that. 

Also, the insinuation you make by calling Europeans “progressive” is that the immigrants’ cultures are somehow ‘backwards’ and inferior. This is quite a racist/xenophobic claim to make. While I also wish these cultures were more accepting of homosexuals, and had equality for the sexes, you can’t simply go about claiming their cultural inferiority as you do in your post. You could make similar arguments about Europeans. For example: countries that won’t help others, even when fleeing war, for fear their “inferior” culture might dilute their own, are still living in the Middle Ages, becoming protectionist, and unable to employ basic human decency.

This is an extremely small minded, Eurocentric, and racist post. The fact you explicitly claim cultures aren’t equal lowkey makes this fascist, I-

[Infinity Wave 7,635]

12 hours ago, lego said:

Europe has not done it’s part. Maybe Germany has. Not whole EU. 

 

 

EXCUSE ME? What part exaclty did Germany do? 

I really hope you're kidding. You must be kidding me. Do you know how many immigrants (NOT refugees) did Germany accept in the last 3/4/5 years? Did you know how many came to Italy?

People, LISTEN UP PLEASE.

All immingrants (not refugees) arrive in Italy. Because Italy is just some kilometers aways from Africa by sea. So, they all come here and we have to understand if they're deserving refuge or not. But, those who sadly doesn't deserve it, should go back to their country according to the EU and Italian laws. In the past 5 years, it hasn't been like this. 

Every single immigrant who came to Italy was given a place where to sleep, sometimes even in a really pretty structure or so, he/she was given 2/3 meals per day, in most of the cases they were given a beatiful accomodation.

Now, I'm not even saying this is wrong. What I'm saying is, just because those poor, deserving people come to Italy IT DOESN'T MEAN ONLY ITALY has to take care of them. What's the fcking point of Europe if so?

North Europe countries accepted to welcome something like 2/3% of the total immigrants who arrived in Italy. Germany took a similar percentage, FRANCE STOPPED ALL THE IMMIGRATION meaning the governemebt sent dozens of armed guards to the less controlled portions of the Italy/France edge. 

So, in practice, immigrants illigally arrive in Italy, but they can't illegally go the France, Germany or Switzerland because they have the fortune ti not have any sea touching they're country. They should be "divided" between all EU countries BUT NO ONE accepted to take a relevant percentage. So, in practice they all remained in Italy.

Now, please, somebody tell me what Angela Merkel did. Please, please, what were the compassionate, loving actions of Merkel? What part did she do? I really wanna know.

[Fusel 1,111]

she‘s doing exactly what every country that descended into right-wing populism has done, she‘s adapting their positions. you see where that gets you, hillary

[Bambino 24,321]

Wow at some of the replies here. And you guys call yourselves fans of Gaga, a woman who's been calling for freedom, equality, love, kindness and peace to all and everyone in the world, especially the minorities and regardless of where they come from. You should be ashamed yourselves.

You act all kind and lovely in stupid threads but once immigration/Islam/Middle East threads show up, the white, racist person in you comes out.

Some of you, of course.

You should ashamed of yourselves, again.

People in the Middle East are living in misery, regardless of the reason, could be war, or society, or economy, and anyone who seeks asylum because of these issues should be granted asylum and a better life because that's a human's right; to live a happy and a peaceful life.

But why would you care? Everything a refugee seeks and hopes for is taken for granted by you. You have your rights, and your rights are protected. Nothing else should matter to you, right?

[Quentin 6,771]

Also can anyone tell Hillary that Google and Apple would not exist without immigration?

Even the whole United States were made around this value.

[lego 44,165]

41 minutes ago, Infinity Wave said:

EXCUSE ME? What part exaclty did Germany do? 

I really hope you're kidding. You must be kidding me. Do you know how many immigrants (NOT refugees) did Germany accept in the last 3/4/5 years? Did you know how many came to Italy?

People, LISTEN UP PLEASE.

All immingrants (not refugees) arrive in Italy. Because Italy is just some kilometers aways from Africa by sea. So, they all come here and we have to understand if they're deserving refuge or not. But, those who sadly doesn't deserve it, should go back to their country according to the EU and Italian laws. In the past 5 years, it hasn't been like this. 

Every single immigrant who came to Italy was given a place where to sleep, sometimes even in a really pretty structure or so, he/she was given 2/3 meals per day, in most of the cases they were given a beatiful accomodation.

Now, I'm not even saying this is wrong. What I'm saying is, just because those poor, deserving people come to Italy IT DOESN'T MEAN ONLY ITALY has to take care of them. What's the fcking point of Europe if so?

North Europe countries accepted to welcome something like 2/3% of the total immigrants who arrived in Italy. Germany took a similar percentage, FRANCE STOPPED ALL THE IMMIGRATION meaning the governemebt sent dozens of armed guards to the less controlled portions of the Italy/France edge. 

So, in practice, immigrants illigally arrive in Italy, but they can't illegally go the France, Germany or Switzerland because they have the fortune ti not have any sea touching they're country. They should be "divided" between all EU countries BUT NO ONE accepted to take a relevant percentage. So, in practice they all remained in Italy.

Now, please, somebody tell me what Angela Merkel did. Please, please, what were the compassionate, loving actions of Merkel? What part did she do? I really wanna know.

 

 

Didn’t Italy just elect a fascist government? 

 

“Every single immigrant who came to Italy was given a place where to sleep, sometimes even in a really pretty structure or so, he/she was given 2/3 meals per day, in most of the cases they were given a beatiful accomodation.”

Fairytales. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/italy-fascist-policies-march-rome-matteo-salvini-donald-trump-a8586711.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/06/attacks-on-immigrants-highlight-rise-of-fascist-groups-in-italy

Immigration in Italy: Fact-checking five common myths and assumptions

https://www.thelocal.it/20180223/immigration-in-italy-fact-checking-five-common-myths-and-assumptions

https://www.thelocal.it/20170418/refugees-are-bringing-a-dying-italian-village-back-to-life

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/un-human-rights-italy-austria-refugee-santimigrant-violence-a8531886.html

An Italian mayor saved his village by welcoming migrants. Now he’s been arrested for it.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2018/10/02/an-italian-mayor-saved-his-village-by-welcoming-migrants-now-hes-been-arrested-it/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9d5b229ac34a

 

 

[Florian 20,017]

1 hour ago, Infinity Wave said:

EXCUSE ME? What part exaclty did Germany do? 

I really hope you're kidding. You must be kidding me. Do you know how many immigrants (NOT refugees) did Germany accept in the last 3/4/5 years? Did you know how many came to Italy?

People, LISTEN UP PLEASE.

All immingrants (not refugees) arrive in Italy. Because Italy is just some kilometers aways from Africa by sea. So, they all come here and we have to understand if they're deserving refuge or not. But, those who sadly doesn't deserve it, should go back to their country according to the EU and Italian laws. In the past 5 years, it hasn't been like this. 

Every single immigrant who came to Italy was given a place where to sleep, sometimes even in a really pretty structure or so, he/she was given 2/3 meals per day, in most of the cases they were given a beatiful accomodation.

Now, I'm not even saying this is wrong. What I'm saying is, just because those poor, deserving people come to Italy IT DOESN'T MEAN ONLY ITALY has to take care of them. What's the fcking point of Europe if so?

North Europe countries accepted to welcome something like 2/3% of the total immigrants who arrived in Italy. Germany took a similar percentage, FRANCE STOPPED ALL THE IMMIGRATION meaning the governemebt sent dozens of armed guards to the less controlled portions of the Italy/France edge. 

So, in practice, immigrants illigally arrive in Italy, but they can't illegally go the France, Germany or Switzerland because they have the fortune ti not have any sea touching they're country. They should be "divided" between all EU countries BUT NO ONE accepted to take a relevant percentage. So, in practice they all remained in Italy.

Now, please, somebody tell me what Angela Merkel did. Please, please, what were the compassionate, loving actions of Merkel? What part did she do? I really wanna know.

You're already making a problematic post by conflating legal and illegal immigrants. Then no, all immigrants (legal or not) are not only arriving in Italy. There are Spain, Greece, and other coastal countries (oh and France has a mediterranean coast).

You're totally falling for the italian media and political fear-mongering speech. What I recommend you is to widen your sources when you read the news and look for foreign media sources. Maybe you wouldn't have that huge bias that is showing in your post. That idea that Italy is alone against the rest of the EU is so wrong.

Italy population is composed of ~9% of legal immigrants, France has ~12%.

When it comes to illegal immigrants, it's really hard to count, Italian government gave the number of 500k illegal immigrants, France gave the number of 400k (but it's actually more since the 400k are only the one who used a service for health issues). 

As you can see Italy situation isn't as bad as you think it is. You're just blinded by the italian medias.

The only help that Italy should be given from Europe is not about redirecting immigrants to other countries but about the costs generated by controlling the border and saving illegal immigrants when their boat sink. (which is already in discussion in the EU)