Sza was ‘mad as hell’ about not winning a grammy

[DiscoHeaven23 35,007]

This is not to discredit SZAs feelings at all, but when people talk about how they don't win, they have to realize how much competition they have.

She was nominated for Best Urban Contemporary Album, which The Weeknd's Starboy won. Starboy was a master piece.

She was nominated for R&B Performance, which "That's What I Like" won, a song that won a lot that night.

She was nominated for R&B song, which "That's What I Like" won. 

She was nominated for Rap/Sung performance which Kendrick's Loyalty won. 

 

So when you look at the people that beat her, it makes more sense how she ended up not going home with any. Not because she sucks, but because her competition was just that little bit better. 

 

And as far as the Best New Artist award that she lost...its not like Alessia is a bad singer. 

 

[djBuffoon 12,123]

Khalid deserved it, end of story.   SZA is also very talented. Definitely should not have gone to Alessia, who is a cute singer in her own right, but c'mon...

[StrawberryBlond 14,871]

Yawn. Another artist going off on their "I should've won" rant. It's never a good look. I totally understand the feeling, I'd be annoyed too, but annoyance at losing a Grammy nomination is not something you should verbalise. It just makes you look whiney and entitled. For goodness sake, it's her debut. A lot of people have to be around a bit longer to even get as far as nomination, so she should think herself lucky. I don't get the hype with her anyway, her music has not thrilled me. Think of all the Grammy's Gaga's lost over the years including most recently. Katy's never won a single one of her nominations. Yet they both keep a dignified silence. I thought by now, people would know this was the best route to take.

8 hours ago, Ferrer Zorola said:

I mean... is being mad at the Academy for not winning the thing now?

this is a deja vu and last times it has happened the people mad were also black... very Childish Gambino of ha

Yep, you don't want to say it but it is what it is. Not all that long ago, this didn't happen but now black artists are going on full-blown rants if they don't get the awards they feel they "deserve." They don't seem to do their research to realise that plenty of white artists have lost out big time in the past (even the ones with huge commercial success and great critical reviews) yet don't go off on rants about it. Does the idea of big competition never enter their heads? I've lost out on many an award in my time, when I thought I deserved to be the clear winner and I just kept my annoyance to myself because I knew complaining would make me look bad and I tried to come up with justification for why I didn't win. I always thought that everyone was raised to believe that complaining about not getting an award does nothing for you. But I've slowly been realising of late that perhaps this lesson is not reinforced in the black community. Or at least, not in those who become famous. When white people lose an award, we're taught that this is just part of life. For a lot of black people, it's a racist tragedy. They expect awards. That isn't the result of low self esteem, the exact opposite. Now, SZA isn't saying that racism was the reason why she lost but that is usually the reason offered up by many black artists. This reasoning never ceases to amaze me because black artists are some of the most awarded artists in Grammy history and they have entire categories where, most of the time, every nominee is black, so they're competing against each other. As I said, entitlement. Entitled people don't like to listen to reason and facts.

7 hours ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

Lol at that 7 year old tweet that people have already been talking about for years.

Hold on, I've repeatedly seen the whole "it was years ago" argument not accepted by people when a white person is discovered to have said something bigoted. And you know, that's 100% understandable. But why the double standards when it's a black person saying something bigoted? If you believe in equality, where's your equal standards?

5 hours ago, Supersonic said:

It's really funny that some people are bringing up her 7 year old homophobic tweets but when somebody brings up the racist remarks of Shawn Mendes he did 4 years ago you got a LEGION of twinks defending their spiritual leader lmao.

Not to mention that SZA had the balls to address the tweet and apologize for it while Shawn has kept either quiet or just deleted the captions where he used the n-word.

As I said above, I want people to apply the same standards. I've seen too many instances of the public making excuses for bigoted comments from black people but show no mercy when it's a white person. And yeah, white people have addressed and apologised for these instances too and they still aren't forgiven. 

1 hour ago, DiscoHeaven23 said:

This is not to discredit SZAs feelings at all, but when people talk about how they don't win, they have to realize how much competition they have.

She was nominated for Best Urban Contemporary Album, which The Weeknd's Starboy won. Starboy was a master piece.

She was nominated for R&B Performance, which "That's What I Like" won, a song that won a lot that night.

She was nominated for R&B song, which "That's What I Like" won. 

She was nominated for Rap/Sung performance which Kendrick's Loyalty won. 

 

So when you look at the people that beat her, it makes more sense how she ended up not going home with any. Not because she sucks, but because her competition was just that little bit better. 

 

And as far as the Best New Artist award that she lost...its not like Alessia is a bad singer. 

 

That's the best way to look at it. Big competition is always the biggest factor at award shows, not prejudiced judges or you not being any good. And in the case of the Grammys in particular, older voters who have limited experience with new, young artists (and sometimes even entire genres), so just vote for the nominee who sold the most or is the name they recognise the most. That's how I've heard it goes down in the whole nominations process anyway.

[ItsTommyBitch 12,640]

8 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yawn. Another artist going off on their "I should've won" rant. It's never a good look. I totally understand the feeling, I'd be annoyed too, but annoyance at losing a Grammy nomination is not something you should verbalise. It just makes you look whiney and entitled. For goodness sake, it's her debut. A lot of people have to be around a bit longer to even get as far as nomination, so she should think herself lucky. I don't get the hype with her anyway, her music has not thrilled me. Think of all the Grammy's Gaga's lost over the years including most recently. Katy's never won a single one of her nominations. Yet they both keep a dignified silence. I thought by now, people would know this was the best route to take.

Yep, you don't want to say it but it is what it is. Not all that long ago, this didn't happen but now black artists are going on full-blown rants if they don't get the awards they feel they "deserve." They don't seem to do their research to realise that plenty of white artists have lost out big time in the past (even the ones with huge commercial success and great critical reviews) yet don't go off on rants about it. Does the idea of big competition never enter their heads? I've lost out on many an award in my time, when I thought I deserved to be the clear winner and I just kept my annoyance to myself because I knew complaining would make me look bad and I tried to come up with justification for why I didn't win. I always thought that everyone was raised to believe that complaining about not getting an award does nothing for you. But I've slowly been realising of late that perhaps this lesson is not reinforced in the black community. Or at least, not in those who become famous. When white people lose an award, we're taught that this is just part of life. For a lot of black people, it's a racist tragedy. They expect awards. That isn't the result of low self esteem, the exact opposite. Now, SZA isn't saying that racism was the reason why she lost but that is usually the reason offered up by many black artists. This reasoning never ceases to amaze me because black artists are some of the most awarded artists in Grammy history and they have entire categories where, most of the time, every nominee is black, so they're competing against each other. As I said, entitlement. Entitled people don't like to listen to reason and facts.

Hold on, I've repeatedly seen the whole "it was years ago" argument not accepted by people when a white person is discovered to have said something bigoted. And you know, that's 100% understandable. But why the double standards when it's a black person saying something bigoted? If you believe in equality, where's your equal standards?

As I said above, I want people to apply the same standards. I've seen too many instances of the public making excuses for bigoted comments from black people but show no mercy when it's a white person. And yeah, white people have addressed and apologised for these instances too and they still aren't forgiven. 

That's the best way to look at it. Big competition is always the biggest factor at award shows, not prejudiced judges or you not being any good. And in the case of the Grammys in particular, older voters who have limited experience with new, young artists (and sometimes even entire genres), so just vote for the nominee who sold the most or is the name they recognise the most. That's how I've heard it goes down in the whole nominations process anyway.

I'm not sure what specific instances you're referring to. But I, a rational adult, believe that people can change their views and realize that a lot of people grow up in environments that are not conducive to open minded and accepting behavior because of things like religion, location, etc. And 7 years is quite some time.  The cultural landscape and acceptance of things like gay people, LGBTQ+ people in general has vastly changed for the better in that amount of time. Black culture can be particularly virulent, toxic, and especially hyper masculinized at times, so what she said isn't that out of line in tradition for cutting people whatever amount of slack.

I again do not know who you are referring to, but obviously situations are different. "Black people should be killed" being said when you were 16 or 17 is different than something like "Gays are gross" - these are fictitious accounts ofc, but the difference is apparent I believe. In general, I have no double standard for white people who have said problematic things in the past. I didn't care when Iggy said them for example, and I do care currently that Azealia is still so problematic and occassionally homophobic and transphobic. It just depends.

You're honestly kind of throwing out conjecture to help prove your point about some kind of black specific inferiority complex. While I'm sure you've witnessed this double standard somewhere, it does nothing to throw out this anecdotal evidence and furthermore to tie it in with any solid conclusion. Just because you witness people forgive black people for problematic tweets and utterances (hint, they often don't, its just you're personal experience) and not white people does not mean that this is actually a "thing", there's no correlation we can draw.

And honestly? You are still arguing from the position that things are equal between races and therefore people's reactions should be the same. But they aren't, so they won''t. I don't usually like to debate such subjective things, but a lot of your post is just entirely dismissive of her and it doesn't seem like you've taken much time to try to understand. 

For one, while it might come off as more graceful or socially acceptable to not complain about losing any kind of award, it doesn't mean that saying anything about it is bad. (note: speaking about, expressing feelings, is fine and not synonymous with complaining/whining. Furthermore, Gaga and Katy and whoever, -- ALL people have these kinds of feelings, being asked to speak about them and not shying away from the question is nothing to fault people for. Of course, arrogance isn't ever a pretty color, but I don't think this reads that way.) Also, it goes without saying that just because you aren't into her doesn't mean she isn't an amazing artist that released amazing music and shook things up both commercially and critically. 

Back on this whole alleged trend of black people feeling like they "deserve" anything and reacting unfavorably to loses in comparison with white people. Accept the fact that not all things are equal. Sometimes, people lose because they were simply beat, and outdone. Other times, the odds are stacked in ones favor for whatever reason. All loses are not equal. In a society where white people are often and popularly awarded for mediocrity in so-called institutions that are meant to praise greatness and out of the box thinking, creativity, artistry, etc. It can be hard to discern what things are a matter of so-called "deserved" losses and hidden bias. We know sociologically that some people just prefer things of their own race. Its still racist, and sometimes its a subconscious bias, but it is a bias and it is definitely there. So of course it sucks to sit there and not know. And honestly, its okay to err on the side of questioning, its not like only black people are upset that SZA didn't win any of the grammys she was nominated for. Many if not most music critics and people that follow the grammys expected her to, because she really did better than her contemporaries this last year in some of those fields (yes some, I think she earned 1 or 2, but not all 5)

This is NOT an issue of black people "expecting" anything. That just sounds like you don't know how black people live their every day lives. Really, its that you aren't black, but you are making assumptions about black mentality and mindsets, even though you can't possibly know, only observe and make conjecture.

I can only speak for myself, but as a relatively privileged black man living in a surprisingly liberal area, more often than not there are things that go south on an everyday basis that I often find out that there is racist motivation for or reasoning for. 

Trust me when I tell you black people are used to this. Like, objectively. We experience it, we know how people react to us differently, we observe our environments, and we are just more used to these things unfortunately.

Spoiler

Also, the categories that are "just for black people" are actually pretty racist at times, as are the Grammy's in effect. Many black artists that try to capitalize or heck, even explore genres that might not be considered "urban" (because urban means anything a black person makes right?  All black female vocalists are soul, urban, hip-hop right? According to the Grammys most of the time, yes it does. How many times do you hear of black female artists being nominated for pop categories? Even Rihanna, probably the most celebrated, has only been nominated in anything pop 4 times in her entire career even though her music has ranged from decisively pop to urban and back. "Lemonade" was considered an R&B album, even though it was hella diverse, featuring Rock, Country, etc.) They are more often than not denied access to the upper-echelons of the mainstream, most celebrated awards. For example often times, the Grammy's will award a black person with Best Urban, Best Rap/R&B, Hip-Hop, etc. and completely disregard them for the bigger awards like Record of the Year, Album of the Year.Black people have won AOTY, etc. of course, many times. It's an issue of scope, but its really not that relevant here, its a topic for another day. 

To people claiming that her competition was simply better in every category, what are our standards? How you personally felt? How music critics felt? How commercially succesful these albums/songs were?  I generally don't like to talk about things as subjective as this, but here goes...

All I can say that if it is how the vast majority of music publications, critics, and the public felt (commercially) it's probably not just a fluke and is more indicative than one or less of these categories. CTRL had critical success and commercial success. For a black female that was writing sex positive, progressive relatable music in a genre where they have not had much commercial or critical success as of late? And fitting in with the new forms of R&B and Neo___ music? Not many. CTRL was just certified Platinum. It has an 86!!! It was on most publications best of lists for the year. Individual songs were highlighted as being masterpieces, it was talked about culturally all over (not just in "black" or urban circles) and it is Still gaining in popularity and success.

To me, this is more than enough reason for her to have at least won Best Urban Comtemporary Album and Best New Artist. Best New Artist is not about being a good singer, or having a hit single. It is an amalgamation of things that Alessia Cara (no shade to her, I don't "blame" her for winning or anything) did not really have. According to the Grammy's own qualifications of what would make someone a Best New Artist, she objectively did not fit those standards. And Starboy was not nearly as critically successful as CTRL.. Many felt that although it had some bops (some of it was quite pop for The Weeknd) and great tracks, it was a step back from his last album in many ways. 

 

[duskball 498]

9 hours ago, The Surrealist said:

 It this was 7 years ago and she got called out and she publicly apologized saying that she wasn’t in the right mindset and ****. I’m gay and I used to say homophonic ****. Sza has dated women also so please chill with it. You obviously don’t like her so why you even here

[imwoahvicky 4,248]

11 hours ago, The Surrealist said:

these are from 2011  

[imwoahvicky 4,248]

2 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yep, you don't want to say it but it is what it is. Not all that long ago, this didn't happen but now black artists are going on full-blown rants if they don't get the awards they feel they "deserve."

what is with you and anything involving people who are black/POC and the stigma you have against them? 

[Battle 4 Ur Life 6,715]

gurl you ain't even got a moonman yet. chill hon.

[Miel 15,009]

I do think she at least deserved Best New Artist.

[kostauventura 545]

On 1/3/2018 at 6:05 AM, The Surrealist said:

If she think accolades don't mean a thing, what is she mad for? The gag is Sza didn't even believe in her own album and saw that other people hyped it up, so she took a chance to make everyone else look like a loser for not letting her win.

Damn > Ctrl

lol why you so salty tho? is not she didnt belive, she didnt know it'd have the impact.

[The Surrealist 27,470]

Just now, kostauventura said:

lol why you so salty tho? is not she didnt belive, she didnt know it'd have the impact.

It's my opinion, lol. She said "I didn't imagine this album doing much anyway". There isn't a big room for interpretation.

[kostauventura 545]

2 minutes ago, The Surrealist said:

It's my opinion, lol. She said "I didn't imagine this album doing much anyway". There isn't a big room for interpretation.

whatever. youre taking her credit away

[StrawberryBlond 14,871]

20 hours ago, ItsTommyBitch said:

I'm not sure what specific instances you're referring to. But I, a rational adult, believe that people can change their views and realize that a lot of people grow up in environments that are not conducive to open minded and accepting behavior because of things like religion, location, etc. And 7 years is quite some time.  The cultural landscape and acceptance of things like gay people, LGBTQ+ people in general has vastly changed for the better in that amount of time. Black culture can be particularly virulent, toxic, and especially hyper masculinized at times, so what she said isn't that out of line in tradition for cutting people whatever amount of slack.

I again do not know who you are referring to, but obviously situations are different. "Black people should be killed" being said when you were 16 or 17 is different than something like "Gays are gross" - these are fictitious accounts ofc, but the difference is apparent I believe. In general, I have no double standard for white people who have said problematic things in the past. I didn't care when Iggy said them for example, and I do care currently that Azealia is still so problematic and occassionally homophobic and transphobic. It just depends.

You're honestly kind of throwing out conjecture to help prove your point about some kind of black specific inferiority complex. While I'm sure you've witnessed this double standard somewhere, it does nothing to throw out this anecdotal evidence and furthermore to tie it in with any solid conclusion. Just because you witness people forgive black people for problematic tweets and utterances (hint, they often don't, its just you're personal experience) and not white people does not mean that this is actually a "thing", there's no correlation we can draw.

And honestly? You are still arguing from the position that things are equal between races and therefore people's reactions should be the same. But they aren't, so they won''t. I don't usually like to debate such subjective things, but a lot of your post is just entirely dismissive of her and it doesn't seem like you've taken much time to try to understand. 

For one, while it might come off as more graceful or socially acceptable to not complain about losing any kind of award, it doesn't mean that saying anything about it is bad. (note: speaking about, expressing feelings, is fine and not synonymous with complaining/whining. Furthermore, Gaga and Katy and whoever, -- ALL people have these kinds of feelings, being asked to speak about them and not shying away from the question is nothing to fault people for. Of course, arrogance isn't ever a pretty color, but I don't think this reads that way.) Also, it goes without saying that just because you aren't into her doesn't mean she isn't an amazing artist that released amazing music and shook things up both commercially and critically. 

Back on this whole alleged trend of black people feeling like they "deserve" anything and reacting unfavorably to loses in comparison with white people. Accept the fact that not all things are equal. Sometimes, people lose because they were simply beat, and outdone. Other times, the odds are stacked in ones favor for whatever reason. All loses are not equal. In a society where white people are often and popularly awarded for mediocrity in so-called institutions that are meant to praise greatness and out of the box thinking, creativity, artistry, etc. It can be hard to discern what things are a matter of so-called "deserved" losses and hidden bias. We know sociologically that some people just prefer things of their own race. Its still racist, and sometimes its a subconscious bias, but it is a bias and it is definitely there. So of course it sucks to sit there and not know. And honestly, its okay to err on the side of questioning, its not like only black people are upset that SZA didn't win any of the grammys she was nominated for. Many if not most music critics and people that follow the grammys expected her to, because she really did better than her contemporaries this last year in some of those fields (yes some, I think she earned 1 or 2, but not all 5)

This is NOT an issue of black people "expecting" anything. That just sounds like you don't know how black people live their every day lives. Really, its that you aren't black, but you are making assumptions about black mentality and mindsets, even though you can't possibly know, only observe and make conjecture.

I can only speak for myself, but as a relatively privileged black man living in a surprisingly liberal area, more often than not there are things that go south on an everyday basis that I often find out that there is racist motivation for or reasoning for. 

Trust me when I tell you black people are used to this. Like, objectively. We experience it, we know how people react to us differently, we observe our environments, and we are just more used to these things unfortunately.

  Reveal hidden contents

Also, the categories that are "just for black people" are actually pretty racist at times, as are the Grammy's in effect. Many black artists that try to capitalize or heck, even explore genres that might not be considered "urban" (because urban means anything a black person makes right?  All black female vocalists are soul, urban, hip-hop right? According to the Grammys most of the time, yes it does. How many times do you hear of black female artists being nominated for pop categories? Even Rihanna, probably the most celebrated, has only been nominated in anything pop 4 times in her entire career even though her music has ranged from decisively pop to urban and back. "Lemonade" was considered an R&B album, even though it was hella diverse, featuring Rock, Country, etc.) They are more often than not denied access to the upper-echelons of the mainstream, most celebrated awards. For example often times, the Grammy's will award a black person with Best Urban, Best Rap/R&B, Hip-Hop, etc. and completely disregard them for the bigger awards like Record of the Year, Album of the Year.Black people have won AOTY, etc. of course, many times. It's an issue of scope, but its really not that relevant here, its a topic for another day. 

To people claiming that her competition was simply better in every category, what are our standards? How you personally felt? How music critics felt? How commercially succesful these albums/songs were?  I generally don't like to talk about things as subjective as this, but here goes...

All I can say that if it is how the vast majority of music publications, critics, and the public felt (commercially) it's probably not just a fluke and is more indicative than one or less of these categories. CTRL had critical success and commercial success. For a black female that was writing sex positive, progressive relatable music in a genre where they have not had much commercial or critical success as of late? And fitting in with the new forms of R&B and Neo___ music? Not many. CTRL was just certified Platinum. It has an 86!!! It was on most publications best of lists for the year. Individual songs were highlighted as being masterpieces, it was talked about culturally all over (not just in "black" or urban circles) and it is Still gaining in popularity and success.

To me, this is more than enough reason for her to have at least won Best Urban Comtemporary Album and Best New Artist. Best New Artist is not about being a good singer, or having a hit single. It is an amalgamation of things that Alessia Cara (no shade to her, I don't "blame" her for winning or anything) did not really have. According to the Grammy's own qualifications of what would make someone a Best New Artist, she objectively did not fit those standards. And Starboy was not nearly as critically successful as CTRL.. Many felt that although it had some bops (some of it was quite pop for The Weeknd) and great tracks, it was a step back from his last album in many ways.

I'm not necessarily saying that you've said anything that supports what I'm saying but I thought you, of all people, wouldn't be here for the "it was years ago" excuse. Yeah, people change, but bigotry just doesn't go down well at any time in the last, what, 20 years? If you think that black culture can be a hotbed of homophobia, well, don't you think whites are the same? The whole "it's just how I was raised" doesn't wash when it's a white person trying to defend their racism because they grew up in a Republican, Christian household in the south. So, why is it suddenly ok for a black person to use a version of the same excuse when they're homophobic? It's like Tyra Banks once said in a discussion about race on her show: "You may have not been around many black people but you have a television and a computer connected to the internet. The information is out there. So I won't take that excuse anymore." I say the same for any form of bigotry. So, it's beyond me why it's seen as ok to cut black people some slack for being a bit behind the times where white people are not allowed to be.

Well, if you're prepared to say "they often don't, it's just your personal experience," even though you can't prove that, then why I can't say the same thing in response to you claiming the opposite? It all boils down to you being tentative to believe the idea that white people can be treated unfairly, if only mildly.

I don't actually believe that everyone is equal, I'm saying that I believe that everyone is equal in my mind and treat them as such. That shouldn't need clarifying. I don't know how that statement could be twisted. I have taken the time to understand, it's just that I come to a conclusion that you don't agree with, that's all. Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean that you don't understand it.

Speaking your feelings about losing is fine but you've got to do it quickly and without too much emotion. Something like: "Of course, I was a bit bummed out that I lost, as anyone would be who'd worked so hard on their project, but the awards don't matter at the end of the day, it's the amount of people who consume your work and enjoy it. Awards are nice but not essential and I'd take a hit album over awards any day" is perfectly acceptable. Going on a emotional rant is too much. There's so much bad stuff going on in the world and you're complaining over the loss of a trivial award? Priorities. And I never said that just because I wasn't keen on her doesn't mean that other people can't. I shouldn't have to be told this.

Answer me this - what happens when all the nominees are white and mediocrity still succeeds over greatness? Because as someone who's lived in majority white society my entire life I can tell you that the best doesn't always win out. People love blandness, from all races, it's that simple. Yes, sociologically, people do prefer things of their own race, across the board. But I disagree that it's racist, it's just a basic survival principle. If you aren't attracted to the people in your own tribe, your tribe will never reproduce and you'll die out, so it makes sense that people will be most attracted to their own kind, first and foremost. Same for culture. If you can't appreciate the culture in your own tribe, you're going to be the odd one out and miserable, so we're naturally inclined to like what we know. Everyone operates under this to some degree, it's just basic science. But even so, stiff competition is still the biggest factor. In any given year, I usually think more than one nominee deserves to win in each category, so it's just hard luck if it's not you. It doesn't have to mean there's a grand racist conspiracy. The closest I ever came to entertaining that possibility was when Kendrick lost out for AOTY to 1989 but only because he won more than Taylor did that night and over his entire album's era. It didn't make sense for him to win more awards for his album but not to take home the ultimate but the one with lesser awards did. But again, the only reason I even went so far to think that was because he actually did win awards that night. SZA didn't win any, which proves that maybe the academy weren't as thrilled with it in the first place.

If it's not an issue of black people expecting everything, then what is it? Bear in mind, I'm just talking about the specific case of awards, not in general, when I say this. Trust me, while not being black and not living in black communities, I have been extensively studying black music, culture, lifestyle and history for years, so I'm very well versed in it. Just because I've chosen to pick up on a toxic side of it, just like there is in every race, doesn't mean that I've no idea what I'm talking about. I just think problems should be picked up on and not ignored. I didn't know you were black by, the way. I would never try to tell you that you're wrong in your experiences or views as I can't relate and with that in mind, I wish more black people would stop telling white people what it means to be white, trying to tell us what we experience, how we live, what we believe, what our motivations are. Because when I see this stuff expressed, I find it highly offensive as it's so far off. I strongly suspect a lot of these people have not lived around white people, which is why their assessments are so stereotypical and outrageous. And little to no thought is given to international whites outside America, we're all the same people with no complexities or differing culture. I'm sure, with the word "white," substituted for "black," you'd agree with my sentiments from your point of view as well. Yet, I've been told that I'm lying about white experiences because it involves something unsavoury about another race, yet I've never hesitated to believe a POC experience of racism. A bit of equal respect wouldn't go amiss. And don't even get me started on talking about my experience as a woman. I've been shut down by many a POC for doing that, especially black men, and I wasn't even bringing up race in what I was saying! The irony is outrageous. But if what I'm saying specifically focuses on a negative experience that white women go through, that will be shut down in two shakes of a lamb's tail. Again, irony.

You make a good point about black people being forced into specifically black categories even if their music might not truly be defined that way, when they could have stood a better chance in another category. But if anything, it tends to work the opposite way. I definitely wouldn't call Adele pop but she's always nominated in that category and I can't help thinking that if she were black, she might be in the RnB category (though I'm sure that would bring about more controversy because it's a white girl moving in on traditionally black territory when she couldn't just been put in pop *eyeroll*). The Grammys needs a soul category, then it would be fine  but perhaps there's not enough soul albums released in a year to warrant such a category? But the thing is, I rarely hear black people making pop music. MJ and Rihanna are some of the very few who have made unquestionable pop music. Everything else is an RnB/pop crossover at least. It's not even because of colour or voice, it's lyrics and beat that make it not pop. Lemonade is not a diverse album. It has one rock song, one country song and the rest is all contemporary RnB, so I've never understood this argument. The Grammys place an album depending on what percentage of it is from a certain genre, considering that there are no crossover categories, so they obviously judged Lemonade as having RnB the most, which was fair. I sometimes think that the sole reason that Nicki didn't get any nominations for Pink Friday: Roman Reloaded was because the album was literally 50% rap 50% pop, making it super hard to categoriese. No wonder she never did that again. It's not just black people who've missed out on the upper echelon of awards, though. Eminem's been nominated for AOTY 3 times and has lost every time, so clearly, it's just the rap genre itself that voters can have a problem with, not the race doing it. Gaga's also missed out 3 times. Lady Antebellum and Any Winehouse also won every award except that one. Taylor got nominated for various awards for Speak Now but bizarrely was locked out of AOTY despite winning with her previous album. And this year, Lorde's only nomination was for AOTY, nothing else, and she couldn't even win that, which had to be the most bizarre Grammy placement I've ever seen. I'd totally wager that she got that nomination because the academy released AOTY was an all-male line-up and it looked bad, so she was the token female. She was also the only white person in the nominations.

Well, the standards that I'm operating on are all over the place. Of course I'm judging it first and foremost on how I personally felt but then I remember that it's a bunch of other people voting, so my view means nothing. Hence, I base it on what the academy's feeling. If they're placing a lot of awards on one person, it's because they really like them, which is why I call them out for not giving them the ultimate prize of the night because it's inconsistent with how they supposedly felt up until now. I think the voters base it on a mixture of their personal feelings, critical success and commercial success.

Lorde's Melodrama got a 91. It was the second-highest rated AOTY nominee, yet she still lost out to Bruno, whose album was rated 70 and was the lowest rated album out of the nominees. Even Joanne wasn't far away from that score and it barely got any nominations and no wins. So, considering that Bruno had 2 of the biggest hits of 2017, I think that was probably what got him it more than anything. I doubt the academy takes in stuff like "it's rare for an artist to make an album like this and get success with it." If they believed in stuff like awarding the album that made a cultural impact, Joanne should've won something as multiple pop artists went in a country direction after she released it. I've long given up believing that that's how they work it, though. I've only even heard of SZA because I review all music. I haven't heard her once on radio, or anyone in my country talk about her. I didn't even know she'd released an album until months later. Her videos have very low views and likes. I know that the Grammys operate on how Americans see things but trust me, most of Britain would be like "Who?" and we like urban music. So, I think its cultural impact is a lot lower than you make it out to be.

19 hours ago, imwoahvicky said:

what is with you and anything involving people who are black/POC and the stigma you have against them? 

I have no stigma against black people. I love them, I love their music. It's just perceived as a stigma because I hold them to the same standards as white people - equally. I don't believe in patronising them by treating them with kid gloves. This is music, I judge the output, not the artist. Just because I don't unquestionably suck up to black people at every given opportunity doesn't mean that I hate them. I don't even do that to white people, what makes you think I'd do it to anyone else. If someone does something good, they get praise. If they do something bad, they get criticised. It goes no deeper than that. It's no wonder that I bring up concepts of entitlement and special treatment when I get accused of racism for simply criticising someone who doesn't look like me. Yet, if it was a white person (of which there are many), you have nothing to say. Apparently, in your mind, criticism of whites is always deserved, got it.

[imwoahvicky 4,248]

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Apparently, in your mind, criticism of whites is always deserved, got it.

it's not that deep and there's no need to make such assumptions pulled out of thin air  

you're just letting your own insecurities shine through  i asked a simple question 

[kostauventura 545]

On 1/3/2018 at 10:41 AM, good said:

I don’t really think she should’ve won it anyways, she’s pretty damn overrated

says the one with the Whollie X profile pic