Was the fanbase too young for Joanne ?

[DavidJP 688]

Well Joanne came around at a point when a lot in my life was changing. So I share so many of her points about family and love in this era. It was a really healing album, especially for me and my mom(who lost her mom in march of 2016). So the song Joanne was really how we were  feeling for a really long time, and i still feel like this sometimes.  I also lost one of my friends recently to an overdoes right after the Piano version of Joanne came out. So I really have a deep connection to this era. 

[RochestrMonstr 2,272]

Joanne is loved by much of this fan base though, not just older fans. 

Obviously there were plenty of fans who did not enjoy it, but I wouldn’t say it was because of age. 

The fans who didn’t like it probably wanted another electro pop album. Which totally makes sense, since that was what all her pop albums before Joanne had been. But it seems like a matter of personal taste rather than age. 

 

 

 

[TheSlash 14,539]

I don't think it has something to do with the biological age but the mental age instead. I know people (myself unselfishly included) that are far away from getting 30 and already have a pretty realistic look at life, while others are waaaayyyy older and still have this childish/youth-ish look at the world.

I'm 22 and cannot relate to every single problem/situation she addressed, but I can to a large part of it and understand what she's talking about   .

[FATCAT 55,820]

If so, it's only because members of the fan base haven't experienced deep loss. That being said, that's not a bad thing. I hope no one has to understand it. But, it's a part of life.

[Oriane 18,984]

12 hours ago, Doot said:

To respond to the first section of what you wrote, I personally don’t think having a “stripped back” album, or whatever style you would call Joanne, authentic. At all. 

She has made sure that for each and every single album she has released, to host about how it’s “the real her, the most authentic”, etc etc. she literally says it every single album cycle. 

Taking away production in a studio doesn’t automatically make something “authentic”. 

And I’ve always enjoyed her ballads. Captivated is one of my favorite ballads by her. Gaga making an album that comprises more of ballads doesn’t mean that the ballads are good. 

 

In regards to the second part, I whole disagree with you. Music production is not simple AT ALL. Both myself and my boyfriend deal with production, and that sh*t is extremely hard. We’ve spent hours and hours on a piece which is only 30 seconds long so far. And “hiding behind a beat” sounds pretty harsh. One genre is not more authentic than another genre, electronic music is not less sophisticated or innovative than anything else. Electronic music is just an easy target to the general public, which is bullshit. 

And IMO, TFM remains her best, with TF and BTW tied behind it. AP is good but I found a lot of the production to be a step down from previous albums. 

I don't recall her talking about being the real her, authentic etc before ARTPOP but as for the albums she did after, I think talking about being "finally showing the real her" made sense, and in different ways :
- For ARTPOP she wanted to show the world what she was like, behind the outfits, the wigs, the make-up. How she went to simple, barenaked, to all crazy and artistic. It pisses me off when the GP said about Joanne "oh we finally see how she is without crazy outfits and make-up". No, we saw that in ARTPOP.
- For Cheek to Cheek, she wanted to show her roots musically. Jazz taught her everything and she can go back to it whenever she wants, to feel better, to remember where she comes from. Jazz is authentic in the sense that you can't cheat, it's straightforward, you can do it or you can't. In other genres, there's a lot of work behind it and it lacks spontaneity and impulsiveness (which doesn't mean it's not good, it's true for a lot of genres, from classical to electronic music).
- For Joanne, being authentic meant showing the human being behind the artist. What she was for her family, friends, lovers. It was a combination of things she kind of shared with us throughout her career, but never decided to write about, directly and without metaphors or layers. And I don't see how she could have done this album in a dance/electronic style, it wouldn't have fitted the message.

And I personally think the songs on Joanne are very good and show how she matured as a human being and songwriter/composer. As much as I love her songs pre-Fame, I have to say that her music has become more refined. There's something light, pure and innocent in songs like Captivated, Wish you were here or Wonderful, and there's just something more in songs like Million Reasons, Angel Down or Diamond Heart. You can see that she has experienced many things in all these years, and it does not only reflect in the production and lyrics but also in the melody itself.

 

Now to talk about electronic music, I know it's not simple at all and it's not better or worse than any other genre. But as in every genre, there are good artists and bad artists. But the thing with electronic music is that computers made it very easy for anyone to create something very simple and basic. It's more complicated with other genres that involve "real" instruments, where you've got to have at least some musical knowledge to make something. I remember in class, out teacher was showing us some music/mixing software and he quickly made a music loop with random beats, snares etc just to show us how to use the tools. And in a few minutes, he did something that would easily get on the radio these days.

Also I don't see any particular hate for electronic music in general. I think people above 40-50 have prejudice against it because they grew up with rock etc and they don't think music without real instruments is "real music". But from what I experienced, a lot of music lovers under 40 like rock, electronic music and rap. Especially the snobbish ones, who prefer discredit pop music.

[MonsterOfSpain 8,275]

14 minutes ago, Oriane said:

I don't recall her talking about being the real her, authentic etc before ARTPOP but as for the albums she did after, I think talking about being "finally showing the real her" made sense, and in different ways :
- For ARTPOP she wanted to show the world what she was like, behind the outfits, the wigs, the make-up. How she went to simple, barenaked, to all crazy and artistic. It pisses me off when the GP said about Joanne "oh we finally see how she is without crazy outfits and make-up". No, we saw that in ARTPOP.
- For Cheek to Cheek, she wanted to show her roots musically. Jazz taught her everything and she can go back to it whenever she wants, to feel better, to remember where she comes from. Jazz is authentic in the sense that you can't cheat, it's straightforward, you can do it or you can't. In other genres, there's a lot of work behind it and it lacks spontaneity and impulsiveness (which doesn't mean it's not good, it's true for a lot of genres, from classical to electronic music).
- For Joanne, being authentic meant showing the human being behind the artist. What she was for her family, friends, lovers. It was a combination of things she kind of shared with us throughout her career, but never decided to write about, directly and without metaphors or layers. And I don't see how she could have done this album in a dance/electronic style, it wouldn't have fitted the message.

 

I liked this part of your post because one thing that many fans or people from the GP say is that Joanne was the first album where she showed her authentic self, and that bothers me tbh. I think she's always showed her real self, but more especially during the ARTPOP era she really started to unveil her personality. Do they not remember the Swine performance at the iTunes Festival where she took off her wig revealing what hides behind the curtain? I think that was a really powerful moment which goes disregarded most of the time. 

All of her albums and eras have been "authentic", whatever that word means, and I think it's not right to discredit her past work saying it was less real or honest. 

[Oriane 18,984]

15 minutes ago, MonsterOfSpain said:

Do they not remember the Swine performance at the iTunes Festival where she took off her wig revealing what hides behind the curtain? I think that was a really powerful moment which goes disregarded most of the time. 

I loved that moment. Such a simple thing to do, but for Lady Gaga, especially at that time when we only knew her for eccentric outfits, it was something. And changing clothes on stage, in Applause performances or during the artRave, was amazing too. Such a wonderful way to show us that all of this is easier that we think, and she's the same woman behind all of these outfits.

[DoremonLove 7,796]

Dont know about being young but this fanbase still stays in 2009 

[Bradley 54,908]

You have a good point. My heart was broken by someone and shred to pieces and I cried so hard to the piano version of Perfect Illusion and Million Reasons.

[PokerFace 35]

I don't think age really is the issue here as much as taste in music? However I think that older people in general have an easier time to accept more types of music and are more open minded; so age can play part yes.

I think Joanne is 'disliked' by fans since they like electronic-pop music and not really the type of pop music which is presented on the tracks of Joanne. It's also not as relatable as some of her other music? It's so much more political in a way that doesn't just concern LGBT+ in my opinion. I think some of the pieces are so relevant to the time which America is in at the moment and may be hard for other fans around the world who aren't as political to get a grasp around. And if you can't relate to the lyrics it's sometimes hard to like the song if you don't even like the sound. 

The songs which aren't political are also touching on family issues and relationship problems in a way which I think some people are scared to look into themselves to see? As Gaga have said herself it's a very personal album but not in the same was as born this way was, but this is personal as she talks about her as a person, as Stefani, as her fathers daughter, her sisters sister etc. I think some people just haven't been through what the lyrics represent and I think if you don't like the sound, you wont give the lyrics a chance unfortunately. 

But as I said, age maybe isn't the 'problem', rather the type of music some of the fans enjoy and became a Gaga-fan cus of. 

 

[Cheesy Potatoes 266]

22 hours ago, sipthistea said:

Many are not so open to change. They just want nonsense sounds to bop at the club. It's not that is a bad thing, but to ask Gaga to re make her first 2 albums is just childish. 

For my part, I think it's important for an artist to explore and develop their best work each time. And I believe Joanne is a step forward in terms of musicianship, discipline and songwriting. 

trust me, in so many countries, Joanne is NOT a change, it's some super common sounds

but being common doesn't make anything bad you can say that

 it's just not creative

[sipthistea 21,099]

13 minutes ago, Cheesy Potatoes said:

trust me, in so many countries, Joanne is NOT a change, it's some super common sounds

but being common doesn't make anything bad you can say that

 it's just not creative

Ok Cheesy Potatoes 

[Haralampos 2,062]

It's not about the fanbase being too young for Joanne but what her fans expected from her. I think we've all grown up with her and so our taste in music, at least for me. She did what she wanted and I think it was the right direction after ARTPOP and for the first time she was totally herself without people saying not this and not that (is it right or is it wrong :P). Yes, It wasn't her best effort but it wasn't overproduced like her last 2-3 albums. ARTPOP was too artistic for the commercial market. It was more art than pop. Even her lead single was named Applause, the lyrics was about herself as an artist and issues but the catchy tune make it popular and it was a return after a long time. Anyway, Joanne was something Gaga wanted and a catharsis for her of being charismatic without the bling, close to her original roots before the fame. I believe Joanne has achieved its goal of what she wanted to show to the world. 

[Haralampos 2,062]

I love how we all agree somehow! <3

[Cheesy Potatoes 266]

16 hours ago, sipthistea said:

Ok Cheesy Potatoes 

you will remember us