I Feel Like Joanne Could Have Been Better Than What it Was

[scallywally 626]

Cant we just all agree its the weed? no point in arguing or trying to find anything so deep out of the pop album. Its not Vulnicura or Sinead singing about her dead babies. Bless our gaga but shes as high as a kite. If people dont think shes on drugs they need a reality check.

 

[ELEMENTALITY 1,298]

22 minutes ago, ChrisC said:

The concept wasn't about her dead aunt though. It was her trying to find herself after all these years of fame and drama and to do that she went back to her family roots which included having to acknowledge her aunt's death. When you think of it as gaga finding herself, DIC, MR, PI, DH, Joanne, JAD, Hey Girl, GG, JW, and SP all fit the bill. She explains this concept of the album in all those interviews that she kept saying that "i'm my dad's daughter, sister's sister, Italian-American etc etc"

I think you just proved my point. That was mentioned twelve ****ing million times in interviews. But where is that explained at all on the record? Joanne has no anchor track that suggests or makes you feel like that's what Gaga is about to tell you.

So instead you are running through a maze.

There is no anchor, or central lying theme that unites all of that. 

Sometimes I think Gaga needs to look at what she is going to say in interviews to explain her music to people because it becomes so clear....and actually put THAT into the music. Someone just listening to the record would have no idea how to relate all of that.

She did the same thing with ARTPOP. It makes sense to us because we watch the interviews...but...most people might catch her on Ellen or Jimmy once and then it never really sticks with them much. So when they hear the music they are like...."Whaaa the **** is Lady Gaga doing/talking about now?"

[ryanripley 86,575]

3 minutes ago, scallywally said:

Cant we just all agree its the weed? no point in arguing or trying to find anything so deep out of the pop album. Its not Vulnicura or Sinead singing about her dead babies. Bless our gaga but shes as high as a kite. If people dont think shes on drugs they need a reality check.

 

well it's no shock she's on marijuana since it's a very high chance it's for medical reasons for her pain but i doubt she's on anything heavy like she was back in 2009/10

[Whispering 18,865]

"Joanne is about living every day as if it’s my last,"

The album is about Gaga, growing up in a family with deep grief that is always there and living in this world as a woman...something that Joanne was never able to do. 

It's an album about Gaga's relationships with her family, friends, lovers, and with an everchanging world. 

[Sneaky Oliver 22,189]

22 minutes ago, scallywally said:

Did her poor Aunt come from the South or wore a pink hat in a photo? Ive always wanted to know but to scarred to ask. I tried to see if a pic came up in the doc to have an 'ah ha' moment. I bet youve all seen it and im late but thats something thats always on my mind. Maybe she loved country music, if she did it would make more sense and be more emotional. If she didn't then yes the whole concept was stupid there must be links that we dont know, shes a bright young lady. Other sites and news agencies already thought she was crazy or using her dead aunts name for a bonkers theme. It would've been nice for it to be explained in the booklet with photos. some of us would've been in tears and it would've shut the others up. 

The concept behind the cowgirl thing is that even a complete opposite of Lady Gaga could relate to her new music. Gaga talks about a girl in the field with babies and Pinot Grigios and how that girl is actually herself 

[candydarling 1,815]

reminder that joanne is also gaga's middle name, so it's a record about her too on a personal level (DH, DIC, PI, JW, etc). Joanne isnt only about her aunt.

[ELEMENTALITY 1,298]

12 minutes ago, ryanripley said:

but it doesn't sound ridiculous at all? go rewatch 5F2 if you're not understanding my theory

i'll repeat myself: gaga has said plenty of times how she feels Joanne in her and has explained how her death greatly affected her family, it was clearly a huge event.

it's completely realistic that gaga wrote the record through the eyes of Joanne. her family were obviously very willing to explain who Joanne was as a person during gaga's entire life which is over 30 years. personally i feel like that's more than enough time to understand a family member  

that's why she wrote Perfect Illusion for the record called Joanne  you're taking it too literally. Joanne doesn't HAVE to have experienced it but it's something she could have done and that's only something Gaga can know

i don't see how you'd know Joanne or Gaga well enough to criticise how well Gaga knows Joanne? i don't know gaga or joanne on a personal level at all, but i paid close attention to her behaviour during the era and it seems reasonable to theorise she's expressing Joanne as a person as well as Gaga's own struggles

AGAIN....I'm saying the ALBUM....by ITSELF....does not stand well....when everytime there is a question about it....a fan must tell someone to go watch a two hour documentary to understand a song and whether or not it relates.  Or tell them to watch an interview. Or sit and explain it. Especially when all of that is VAGUE and we don't know if its true or not.

 

I mean...for all we know the pink hat was chosen because Gaga (being a city girl) has a really narrow minded view of people from middle America and thought that would relate to them, when 99% of people in middle America don't give a **** about cow hats or whatever. Why was a pink hat chosen? Did Joanne like that pink? Did Joanne ever wear cowgirl hats? Did she like country music? Did she grow up on a farm? Did Joanne go to dive bars? Even though she wasn't old enough? Did Joanne have a car? Did she smoke? Did she drink? Did she have a fake relationship? Did she have a relationship where she contemplated staying/leaving them? Did she believe in God?

We don't know. Gaga never told us. Or met the girl. She just feels her. (Which I do believe by the way). But how the **** does that ever relate to the concept at all?

But apparently we know she liked to "Dance in Circles"...maybe? right?  Good guess? I didn't know Joanne was the only girl in the tri-state area of WV, Ohio, PA that enjoyed the occasional fingering sesh....

 

 

 

ITS A BAD VAGUE CONCEPT WITH GOOD INTENTIONS MEANT TO MAKE GAGA SEEM MORE RELATABLE.  Are we really in denial about this!?!? She even kind of admitted that....

 

[ELEMENTALITY 1,298]

5 minutes ago, Sneaky Oliver said:

The concept behind the cowgirl thing is that even a complete opposite of Lady Gaga could relate to her new music. Gaga talks about a girl in the field with babies and Pinot Grigios and how that girl is actually herself 

thats kind of really narrow minded when you think about it tbh 

[ryanripley 86,575]

1 minute ago, ELEMENTALITY said:

AGAIN....I'm saying the ALBUM....by ITSELF....does not stand well....when everytime there is a question about it....a fan must tell someone to go watch a two hour documentary to understand a song and whether or not it relates.  Or tell them to watch an interview. Or sit and explain it. Especially when all of that is VAGUE and we don't know if its true or not.

 

I mean...for all we know the pink hat was chosen because Gaga (being a city girl) has a really narrow minded view of people from middle America and thought that would relate to them, when 99% of people in middle America don't give a **** about cow hats or whatever. Why was a pink hat chosen? Did Joanne like that pink? Did Joanne ever wear cowgirl hats? Did she like country music? Did she grow up on a farm? Did Joanne go to dive bars? Even though she wasn't old enough? Did Joanne have a car? Did she smoke? Did she drink? Did she have a fake relationship? Did she have a relationship where she contemplated staying/leaving them? Did she believe in God?

We don't know. Gaga never told us. Or met the girl. She just feels her. (Which I do believe by the way). But how the **** does that ever relate to the concept at all?

But apparently we know she liked to "Dance in Circles"...maybe? right?  Good guess? I didn't know Joanne was the only girl in the tri-state area of WV, Ohio, PA that enjoyed the occasional fingering sesh....

 

 

 

ITS A BAD VAGUE CONCEPT WITH GOOD INTENTIONS MEANT TO MAKE GAGA SEEM MORE RELATABLE.  Are we really in denial about this!?!? She even kind of admitted that....

 

"theory

ˈθɪəri/

noun

a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained."

there's no point going in circles if you're not going to understand what i'm trying to say so that's your opinion and this is mine

[ELEMENTALITY 1,298]

Just now, ryanripley said:

"theory

ˈθɪəri/

noun

a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained."

there's no point going in circles if you're not going to understand what i'm trying to say so that's your opinion and this is mine

a theory is not personal though because you don't know whether it really happened or not so therefore it is not that personal.

 

[REALITY 76,652]

Joanne wasn't just an album she thought about last minute—well, in some ways it was, but I explain that. Joanne, from a technical standpoint was an album that was thought about "last minute." She did have an original LG5, but decided to scrap that after the Oscar's. However, from a conceptual standpoint, Joanne has been with her from the very beginning. The problem with the argument you presented was the you seemed to really take Joanne at face-value, which is ironic considering that was something you were arguing against. Joanne, yes, at face-value, is about her late aunt, but it's more than that. In interviews she's explicitly expressed that "Joanne" also refers to her middle name, and in some ways, it's her "middle-ground." 

Joanne is about finding who Stefani is in the midst of "Gaga." She's explained this in earlier interviews during the era. Remember when she talked about how she kept envisioning this woman with three kids, family jewelry, a bottle of Pinot Grigio in her hand, etc.? She was envisioning herself. The story of Joanne relates to Gaga as well. She also said this in an interview (I'm not exactly sure where), but she said that Joanne was about living everyday like it's your last. Yes, there are some questionable themes within the album, but a lot of it directly comes from Stefani. She even put it in her Twitter bio that Joanne is "Lady Gaga without the fame." 

Also, how was going in this direction not "pushing herself differently." Yes, she was trying to be relatable (again, she's explained that in numerous interviews), but she was pushing herself differently. This is a direction that she has never gone in, and no one expected her to do it. We all thought LG5 was going to be a disco/funk/pop or pop-rock era, no one thought she was going to go this rock/country/folk/pop direction. This was as different as she could have gotten with this album.

Also, could you explain the whole "Gaga talks about being imperfect in the most perfect sounding records"? Sonically, that just isn't true. I mean, look at Joanne. Some of the songs aren't perfect and there are deeper meanings about insecurities and frustrations. Perfect Illusion is a great example of that. It's very raw and you can tell she's unleashing a lot of anger, and that translates sonically. 

Finally, about the note on Gaga learning to express her frustrations more explicitly...I think one of the beautiful things about Gaga is that she's able to create all these metaphors, allusions, and symbols through her music in order to express her frustration and feelings. It's part of the art. If she really had explicit lyrics, they'd be boring and predictable. Her ability to incorporate so many different expressions and symbolism within her music makes it entertaining and enjoyable. Pop music today was some fairly explicit lyrics ("explicit" in the sense that there are no metaphors and everything is just said and is meant to be said at face-value), and it's just not interesting. Being able to assimilate all those different things into a cohesive song takes skill and artistic creativity.

[ryanripley 86,575]

1 minute ago, ELEMENTALITY said:

a theory is not personal though because you don't know whether it really happened or not so therefore it is not that personal.

 

i never said it was  a theory is just something to tie down loose ideas which you seem to be missing about my comments but like i said, this is going in circles

[Sneaky Oliver 22,189]

9 minutes ago, ELEMENTALITY said:

thats kind of really narrow minded when you think about it tbh 

Shes not talking about the middle America people tho. She’s talking about this specific “vision”/ girl. Of course she wouldn’t show up with trashy clothes (I mean from this girl she has described). She’s Lady Gaga and she loves fashion. And it’s just a fcking hat on the album cover!! It doesn’t need to match the album concept anyway. 

[giskardsb 12,565]

47 minutes ago, ELEMENTALITY said:

So Jo sat and had a convo with Stef about how his dead sis used to finger herself?

 

 

 

....seems plausible 

the songs on Joanne are about life, family, relationships, loneliness.  All aspects of Gaga's world.   You are intentionally looking at meanings at a superficial level just to try and prove your point.  In the same way you are intentionally trying to narrow the focus of the album to being only about Joanne to try to prove your own point, but the album doesn't have that narrow of a focus.  Gaga wasn't making a concept album targeted only at her aunt.   Of course 90% of pop albums don't have any overriding concept at all in the first place.  "The GP" absolutely doesn't give a **** about an albums concept because they consume the songs one at a time with months between.    If there is a concept, it is for the benefit of Fans, who will put in the effort to find the concept and interpret for themselves.

 

[Quark 7,098]

10 minutes ago, ELEMENTALITY said:

AGAIN....I'm saying the ALBUM....by ITSELF....does not stand well....when everytime there is a question about it....a fan must tell someone to go watch a two hour documentary to understand a song and whether or not it relates.  Or tell them to watch an interview. Or sit and explain it. Especially when all of that is VAGUE and we don't know if its true or not.

 

I mean...for all we know the pink hat was chosen because Gaga (being a city girl) has a really narrow minded view of people from middle America and thought that would relate to them, when 99% of people in middle America don't give a **** about cow hats or whatever. Why was a pink hat chosen? Did Joanne like that pink? Did Joanne ever wear cowgirl hats? Did she like country music? Did she grow up on a farm? Did Joanne go to dive bars? Even though she wasn't old enough? Did Joanne have a car? Did she smoke? Did she drink? Did she have a fake relationship? Did she have a relationship where she contemplated staying/leaving them? Did she believe in God?

We don't know. Gaga never told us. Or met the girl. She just feels her. (Which I do believe by the way). But how the **** does that ever relate to the concept at all?

But apparently we know she liked to "Dance in Circles"...maybe? right?  Good guess? I didn't know Joanne was the only girl in the tri-state area of WV, Ohio, PA that enjoyed the occasional fingering sesh....

 

 

 

ITS A BAD VAGUE CONCEPT WITH GOOD INTENTIONS MEANT TO MAKE GAGA SEEM MORE RELATABLE.  Are we really in denial about this!?!? She even kind of admitted that....

 

Joanne is not that hard to understand. The album is simply a collection songs about her. Except this time she is much more personal, less conceptual, and more organic than she has been in the past. Joanne simply represents the personal and intimate theme of the whole album. This is not an album about Joanne but rather Joanne is the symbol of the album.