Jay-Z slams Trump’s “shithole” comment

[OliverViennese 1,164]

18 hours ago, Chic said:

The beautiful resort of a nation that is Haiti

i g n o r a n c e
h y p o c r i s y

 

You are aware, that the US is a main contributor to climate change? You are aware that those "shithole countries" will be affected first? Are you stupid?

The answer to the first two statements might be a no, but the last one is definetely a yes. Educate yourself before posting stupid things.

[StrawberryBlond 14,872]

16 hours ago, ZacharyMark said:

Let's all agree that what you said was not in Trump's head when he said the "shithole" country speech. He's not smart enough to know about the issues in Libya.

 The problem is that a far majority of people coming from Africa and Caribbean countries are good people who want a chance at a better life. I.e. my siblings.... I find it very troubling that you'd place all Africans together to form your concerns about immigration. Are Europeans going to have to be careful of the KKK Americans? 

We aren't talking about smuggling/illegal immigration here. We're talking about not wanting anyone from any African country. 

THAT is a problem. 

I didn't say that this was what was in his head. I said what I did in reference to what some anti-immigrant types among the public think.

Sure, there are good people coming from Africa and the Caribbean but there's also a significant portion who aren't. Obviously, I don't know what the ratio of good to bad is. It's not just these regions either - I'm against open door policies of any people coming into a country en masse, regardless of their race. Yes, I don't KKK Americans flooding Europe either. I think all potential immigrants should be thoroughly vetted and any problematic viewpoints shouldn't be welcomed. I'm not placing all Africans together, I brought up where they came from to point out the falsehood of the belief that all these refugees are from Syria. The fact is that north Africans are one of the biggest immigrant demographics and a lot of them aren't refugees, but more on that in my reply below.

Simply not wanting anyone from any African country is a problem. But I think what a lot of people are getting at is when criminals from Africa want to emigrate. So saying, America's very strict immigration policy is a deterrent, but the fear is that a liberal president could loosen these laws when they see every other liberal leader around the world doing the same. Although I'm liberal myself, extremely open laws on immigration and a drive to take in as many refugees as possible is a part of it that I just can't get behind.

13 hours ago, Florian said:

Where are those evidences you're claiming you have? Just where?

Your post is trying hard to come off as weighted and well thought-out but it's just pure sensationalism  For living in Europe I'm quite aware of many aspect of the current immigration wave as much as the previous ones and it's nowhere as problematic as you're making it sound.

Also let's not act like the US is the most open country. Your policies are already strict and immigration is well controlled. It's not like the US would accept that many anyway. Fears aren't genuine, it's mainly people making the migrants the scapegoat for every issues they have in life, and this feeling is reinforced, used as a tool and sensationalised by conservative and fear-monger media and politicians so they can get elected.

I'm talking interactive maritime maps showing the NGO rescue boats ferrying Libyans to the coast of Italy all day, every day. I'm talking NGO workers saying that the men they brought over had phones with ISIS material on it but despite the authorities being informed of this information, processed them through anyway. I'm talking about people smugglers being in direct contact with aid agencies. I'm talking about migrants paying around 1,500 euros for per ticket to get on a smuggler boat (so they're not exactly poor), which makes around £300 million ticket sales in a year, which is a lucrative business. I'm talking hidden camera footage of a white woman in a French suburb being denied entry to a cafe full of Muslim men because "in this cafe, there is no gender mixing" and "this is not Paris, in the suburbs, we live like we do in our own countries." I'm talking crime graphs charting acts of terrorism and rape go skyrocketing post-mass immigration. I'm talking footage of eye-watering numbers of migrant gangs patrolling the streets of European cities, smashing windows, vandalising traffic lights, throwing things, attacking police cars. Not to mention, all manner of accounts from women the length and breadth of Europe being the subject of sexual harassment, assault and rape by migrant men to the point where they're afraid to leave their homes. I have all the evidence but the problem is that no one wants to hear it because it doesn't come from liberal sources. Anything that comes from a conservative source is labelled racist propaganda, fear-mongering, sensationalism and lies. They ask for the evidence, only so they can deny its validity, so they don't want the truth to all. Liberalism used to be about uncovering the truth at all costs, now it's about denying the undeniable. I definitely don't agree with everyone who makes these videos/articles but you don't have to support their view to take in the evidence that's being reported on. You can take an apolitical view towards it all. As Roosevelt once said: "If you want to anger a conservative, lie to him. If you want to anger a liberal, tell him the truth." Though, as it happens, I'm a liberal who wants the truth and can accept the truth.

By the way, I'm European, I think you have the impression that I'm American. While I'm extremely lucky to have not experienced the extreme danger posed to women in the UK as a result of these migrants, other European countries seem to have taken the hit far worse. It's like the UK missed out on the worst strain or something. We seem to get the ones inclined towards terrorism, the rest of Europe tend to get the ones inclined towards rape (with a particular fascination with gang rape that is livestreamed). Perhaps you aren't aware of the real extent of it because you don't read the information out there or don't read it well enough. If you go searching for the information, you will find it. The key is to not bury your head in the sand when you do. I don't want any dangerous people with problematic views entering my country and then not even being deported when they commit crimes. Doesn't everyone want that safety and security?

I was saying previously how America certainly doesn't have as much to worry about because their policies are so strict. Although the illegal immigration at the Mexican border is providing many problems. But the fear is that such policies will be relaxed over time with future liberal governments to match the world view of "immigrants welcome." Not everyone is against immigration for racist reasons. One of the primary reasons I'm against an overabundance of it is that houses are hard enough to come by. How will we cope in the future if hundreds and thousands of people flood an already maximum population? Our own citizens are struggling to find accommodation and yet we're prepared to freely give it to people who have just arrived in the country? Speaking as someone who lives in Scotland, we have to be mindful of our population as we're so small and vast quantities of our land is rural and uninhabitable, so it's not like we have the space to house hundreds of thousands new arrivals. That is my concern more than anything else.

[mister max 18,480]

16 hours ago, Lord Temptation said:

Yes there is lots to be angry at. I think people tend to vote to punish than to reward. The world is a cruel place. But what makes it worse is superstars telling everyone they’re not doing enough about it. Why is Hollywood shaming us into making us feel like we are not doing enough to make the world a better place?

Maybe because we arent doing enough to make the world a better place?

16 hours ago, Lord Temptation said:

When, as we’ve seen with all these tales of abuse, it is Hollywood itself that is the real villain?

.

Not every person in Hollywood is a rapist. People in Hollywood are showing that rape and sexual abuse cant be accepted and leads to social exlusion by revealing themselves as victims, even if it shows that Hollywoodstars are human too and that they also have a rough life, or by standing and supporting those victims. We should be happy that Hollywood is showing their flaws, how can something that looks so perfect be so cruel at the same time? Nothing is perfect and that reflects on our lives too.

.

16 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 

I think the refugee crisis recently has got a lot of people worried, whether we're talking about legal immigration or not. Americans are seeing what's happening in Europe and don't want it happening to them. While I'm pro-immigration myself, I do think it needs far stricter control. I think open door policies and letting people move here for no other reason than they want to is having disastrous consequences. There is evidence of literal people smuggling in Europe - hundreds of Africans, primarily Libyans, being transported to Italy by dinghy, back and forth, all day. They aren't refugees and the majority of them certainly aren't women, children and families. The majority of them are grown men who just want to escape their country, don't want to integrate with the locals in the country they've moved to, not get jobs and generally be a drain on society. Some are even rioting in the streets, causing chaos, leaving destruction in their wake and most heartbreakingly, assaulting the local women. In the past, I would have been a strong denier of these claims. Until I saw the undeniable evidence of it. And when I see evidence, it doesn't matter that I'm a liberal. Evidence is evidence and we've got to face up to facts. Immigration is all well and good when it's controlled and not taken to extremes. I don't support Trump's take on it but the public's fears are rooted in something genuine.

What defines a "refugee" tho? Shouldnt everyone get a chance at a better life? Mostly men get over the mediteranian because they are the ones who can afford it, 'escaping' from your country isnt that simple as it looks. It takes months of preparation, lots of money and a big hope for a better life. When you finally arrive here in Europe, without family and you barely have money, and you get treated like that. It makes me shiver. I have visited The junlge in Calais, humans are rotting there in the mud after travelling an enormess amount. All they want is a better life? They are trying to get away from their country because there is war there, they get assaulted, they are misunderstood, the past wars destroyed their everything. Who are we to say that they should stay in a place where you arent happy. Would you not do the same?

Being transported to Italy over sea is dangerous AF and you have 0 assurance that you will get to the other side. And if you get to the other side you get send back. If you make it a couple of meters infront of the shore, your boat sinks at that moment, they arent even allowed to help you. And then you get situations like this:

As mentioned by Florian I would love to see the evidence you are talking about.

(Not every refugee assaults women either, just because a handfull do, doesnt mean every refugee should get treated as rapist. Same applies for muslims and terrorist.)

I am wondering how people 100 years from now will think about this situation when they learn about it in history lesson.

incase you didnt notice, I am very passionate about this

[Edonis 28,950]

4 hours ago, Morphine Prince said:

 

Nnnnnn I thought this was one of those fake tweets that you can generate online

Embarrassing 

[StrawberryBlond 14,872]

1 hour ago, mister max said:

What defines a "refugee" tho? Shouldnt everyone get a chance at a better life? Mostly men get over the mediteranian because they are the ones who can afford it, 'escaping' from your country isnt that simple as it looks. It takes months of preparation, lots of money and a big hope for a better life. When you finally arrive here in Europe, without family and you barely have money, and you get treated like that. It makes me shiver. I have visited The junlge in Calais, humans are rotting there in the mud after travelling an enormess amount. All they want is a better life? They are trying to get away from their country because there is war there, they get assaulted, they are misunderstood, the past wars destroyed their everything. Who are we to say that they should stay in a place where you arent happy. Would you not do the same?

Being transported to Italy over sea is dangerous AF and you have 0 assurance that you will get to the other side. And if you get to the other side you get send back. If you make it a couple of meters infront of the shore, your boat sinks at that moment, they arent even allowed to help you. And then you get situations like this:

As mentioned by Florian I would love to see the evidence you are talking about.

(Not every refugee assaults women either, just because a handfull do, doesnt mean every refugee should get treated as rapist. Same applies for muslims and terrorist.)

I am wondering how people 100 years from now will think about this situation when they learn about it in history lesson.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

incase you didnt notice, I am very passionate about this

 

A refugee is someone who has left their country because of war/political unrest that makes their country unsafe to live in and they are then granted asylum by another country. That's it. It's not someone who merely wants to leave their country because they think elsewhere would have better jobs, housing and welfare opportunities. A lot of north Africans pay to be smuggled to another country, which isn't being a refugee. And frankly, you only deserve a better chance at life if you'll be a law-abiding citizen, work hard and integrate. But as we've seen all too much of, a lot of these migrants and refugees have no intention of doing those things. And you should only be accepted into countries that have the space to house you into the bargain, you shouldn't be pressuring small countries with already-maximum populations to take you in. You're supposed to go to the first available country, so why have some travelled hundreds of miles, all the way over to western Europe? It's clear that some want to go to specific countries because they've heard of the great opportunities given there to newcomers. They take advantage of our kindness and overstretch our resources. It's not our fault if we have nowhere to house people who haven't applied for permission to enter the country. We can't just magic up homes for them. You're not talking practically here. You've not proposed any solutions. On the contrary, I've seen that it's all too simple for migrants to come over here, especially the ones from Africa. Men are coming over not because it's easier but because they want to live with more freedom in the west, which they've heard is amazing, it's that simple. If people genuinely wanting to escape war are coming over, that's understandable...but I don't know why they expect to just be given a home upon arrival. Most countries have a severe housing crisis for its citizens and we're expected to take in new arrivals and magically make this problem go away?

I've already seen that they get transported on huge dinghies and then picked up by boats. It's an NGO operation, it's safe enough. And they are just being waived into Italy, actually, I've got it on authority from one of the workers, even if they've got ISIS material on their phones. It's like you didn't even read all the evidence I mentioned in my reply to Florian. Go up to it and read it. I've heard too much of "where's this evidence?" only to have it denied as soon as I've provided it as they don't like the source it comes from, so I decided to write it out rather than provide visual evidence.

No, not every refugee assaults women, but it's definitely more than a handful. There have literally been thousands of rapes across Europe committed by migrants since the refugee crisis started, rape stats have increased by 200%, 500%, even 1000%. Most shockingly, I heard a story of a little Swedish village of 900 people, have had a sudden influx of 400 refugees sent there. At first, they welcomed them, they even gave them food and clothes. But months later, despite their kindness, the village has turned completely upside down by the mostly male migrants, who have become aggressive: "they scream at the locals, call the women whores, steal from the shops and don't seem at all grateful or happy to be here." Now, who is this situation unfair on, may I ask?

Our culture may be very different in 100 years if we don't do something about it, I'm not so much fussed about the history lesson many years from now when my family and I are dead. I'm more bothered by what could happen while we're still living.

[mister max 18,480]

11 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

A refugee is someone who has left their country because of war/political unrest that makes their country unsafe to live in and they are then granted asylum by another country. That's it. It's not someone who merely wants to leave their country because they think elsewhere would have better jobs, housing and welfare opportunities. A lot of north Africans pay to be smuggled to another country, which isn't being a refugee. And frankly, you only deserve a better chance at life if you'll be a law-abiding citizen, work hard and integrate. But as we've seen all too much of, a lot of these migrants and refugees have no intention of doing those things. And you should only be accepted into countries that have the space to house you into the bargain, you shouldn't be pressuring small countries with already-maximum populations to take you in. You're supposed to go to the first available country, so why have some travelled hundreds of miles, all the way over to western Europe? It's clear that some want to go to specific countries because they've heard of the great opportunities given there to newcomers. They take advantage of our kindness and overstretch our resources. It's not our fault if we have nowhere to house people who haven't applied for permission to enter the country. We can't just magic up homes for them. You're not talking practically here. You've not proposed any solutions. On the contrary, I've seen that it's all too simple for migrants to come over here, especially the ones from Africa. Men are coming over not because it's easier but because they want to live with more freedom in the west, which they've heard is amazing, it's that simple. If people genuinely wanting to escape war are coming over, that's understandable...but I don't know why they expect to just be given a home upon arrival. Most countries have a severe housing crisis for its citizens and we're expected to take in new arrivals and magically make this problem go away?

I've already seen that they get transported on huge dinghies and then picked up by boats. It's an NGO operation, it's safe enough. And they are just being waived into Italy, actually, I've got it on authority from one of the workers, even if they've got ISIS material on their phones. It's like you didn't even read all the evidence I mentioned in my reply to Florian. Go up to it and read it. I've heard too much of "where's this evidence?" only to have it denied as soon as I've provided it as they don't like the source it comes from, so I decided to write it out rather than provide visual evidence.

No, not every refugee assaults women, but it's definitely more than a handful. There have literally been thousands of rapes across Europe committed by migrants since the refugee crisis started, rape stats have increased by 200%, 500%, even 1000%. Most shockingly, I heard a story of a little Swedish village of 900 people, have had a sudden influx of 400 refugees sent there. At first, they welcomed them, they even gave them food and clothes. But months later, despite their kindness, the village has turned completely upside down by the mostly male migrants, who have become aggressive: "they scream at the locals, call the women whores, steal from the shops and don't seem at all grateful or happy to be here." Now, who is this situation unfair on, may I ask?

Our culture may be very different in 100 years if we don't do something about it, I'm not so much fussed about the history lesson many years from now when my family and I are dead. I'm more bothered by what could happen while we're still living.

I see  I guess we both have very different opinions about refugees.

And no I didnt read your answer to florian when I posted my post since it was posted at the same time  

Thats a shocking fact about that town in sweden! I still believe in the good side of people tho but thank you for giving me more information about the topic!

[lego 44,165]

11 hours ago, mister max said:

Thats a shocking fact about that town in sweden!

 

It’s always good to ask evidence for these sort of stories, which are so often used by right wingers and people who never been there, only to demonize refugees. “I heard” is not really evidence. Might be as real as “The Bowling Green massacre”. 

 

Also fact check about rape stats

https://www.snopes.com/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

 

https://www.thelocal.se/20170221/why-sweden-is-not-the-rape-capital-of-the-world

 

 

[lego 44,165]

 

 

 

 

 

[Pacify Him 9,073]

I live for the roast the roast the roast 

 the most interesting thread in a while  

[mister max 18,480]

6 hours ago, lego said:

 

It’s always good to ask evidence for these sort of stories, which are so often used by right wingers and people who never been there, only to demonize refugees. “I heard” is not really evidence. Might be as real as “The Bowling Green massacre”. 

 

Also fact check about rape stats

https://www.snopes.com/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

 

https://www.thelocal.se/20170221/why-sweden-is-not-the-rape-capital-of-the-world

 

 

I keep learning more and more  another argument in the basket

I guess StrawberryBlond is either blind for reality or had some negative moments with immigrants which caused negative feeling towards them, which is understandble but yeah

[StrawberryBlond 14,872]

On 1/28/2018 at 9:33 PM, mister max said:

I see  I guess we both have very different opinions about refugees.

And no I didnt read your answer to florian when I posted my post since it was posted at the same time  

Thats a shocking fact about that town in sweden! I still believe in the good side of people tho but thank you for giving me more information about the topic!

It's not that we have different opinions on them, per se, I believe that genuine refugees, especially families, need protection, but I think it's just not possible to provide them all with accomodation and routinely inviting more and more into an already overstretched country and not suggesting they integrate is a recipe for disaster.

13 hours ago, lego said:

 

It’s always good to ask evidence for these sort of stories, which are so often used by right wingers and people who never been there, only to demonize refugees. “I heard” is not really evidence. Might be as real as “The Bowling Green massacre”. 

 

Also fact check about rape stats

https://www.snopes.com/crime-sweden-rape-capital-europe/

 

https://www.thelocal.se/20170221/why-sweden-is-not-the-rape-capital-of-the-world

The reason why I didn't provide evidence for these stories is because I know you'll throw it out due to it being from a conservative or "biased" source. All the stuff I spoke on has sources with footage and/or spoken of by locals, but apparently, that won't be good enough for you and as you've admitted to me before, you won't even read/watch information if you see it's from a conservative source. With that in mind, I wanted you to take in the information without your bias, so I explained it. For me, truth is truth, no matter where it comes from, but it continually seems clear that you only want to entertain information that supports your agenda. As a liberal, you should want to explore all sides to get the truth.

Those links you provided sound like the usual waffle I'm used to hearing whenever these rape stats are called into question. Even outlets like snopes, who claim to be neutral and base their site around cutting through the hearsay, misquotes, fake news BS to find the truth, are amending the truth to suit a liberal agenda. Just as conservatives will cover up Trump's business misfires, racism and sexism or clumsily explain it away, liberals will also lie, deflect and fabricate to defend minority groups, even if they're guilty. It's the same irrational defence, just for something different. When I hear a story about a country struggling with rape cases, I listen and believe, I wouldn't dare question it. I've never seen any liberal trying to disprove cases of minority women being raped, they just believe them unquestionably. You'd be playing a very different tune if it was white men raping minority women. It is appalling that when there is a problem of white women being raped, people scrabble to find proof that it can't possibly be true. There's something really wrong with your brain when you hear stories of abuse and your first thought is to prove that they're faked. The real figures are kept secret, the governments cover them up, only conservative outlets are telling you what the actual police reports are. I choose to believe the stories of the female victims and the police who dealt with the reports, not an outsider who wasn't there to witness it and is trying to protect a liberal agenda. Sweden may not be the rape capital of the world, but it's certainly the European country where the most rape committed by migrants goes on. And this was a country that never had a problem with this until now.

12 hours ago, lego said:

So, you think one ignorant, sheltered French woman speaks for the whole of France? In that case, would you believe one ignorant, sheltered non-white person speaks for the whole of their non-white country? Oh, no, you'd just say ignorance exists in all races and cultures, it's no more a problem there than anywhere else. But you don't seem to possess the same standard when it comes to whites. For the record, there's a lot of white-on-white ignorance. Just look at how many Americans are clueless about the rest of the world. When I was at school, some of my friends went on a school trip to New York and they were taken to a high school there and were introduced as Scottish students and got questions posed to them. Not kidding, they were asked stuff like "Do you live in castles?" and "Do you have phones and tvs?" (I was told it was immensely satisfying to reply with: "Yeah, considering we invented those things!") Racist ignorance or more general ignorance, it's everywhere. It's not just black people who deal with misrepresentations of their countries.

6 hours ago, mister max said:

I keep learning more and more  another argument in the basket

I guess StrawberryBlond is either blind for reality or had some negative moments with immigrants which caused negative feeling towards them, which is understandble but yeah

I'm not blind to reality, I actively seek out reality. I listen to the true stories of the people involved, not some writer who has an agenda to push who wasn't even there. I have not had any negative moments with immigrants but I've heard many a tale from others who have. While I've never personally had a reason to be mistrustful of immigrants, not everyone else is as lucky. I actually detailed a long post in another thread a while back detailing the many stories I've heard from family, friends, peers and local news stories involving this culture of South Asian men treating white women like pieces of meat. If this is just my close circle, I can totally believe stories out there in the wider world. I think more needs to be done to address this toxic rape culture that is spreading in the South Asian community because not only is it putting women in danger, but it's shaming the good people in their community who wouldn't dream of doing these things.

[lego 44,165]

15 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

The reason why I didn't provide evidence for these stories is because I know you'll throw it out due to it being from a conservative or "biased" source.

 

16 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Those links you provided sound like the usual waffle I'm used to hearing whenever these rape stats are called into question. Even outlets like snopes, who claim to be neutral and base their site around cutting through the hearsay, misquotes, fake news BS to find the truth, are amending the truth to suit a liberal agenda.

 

 

OH THE IRONY. 

 

 

 

[StrawberryBlond 14,872]

15 minutes ago, lego said:

 

OH THE IRONY. 

 

 

 

What evidence have you got that these conservative sources are lying, then? Why do you assume that all conservatives lie? Have you never witnessed a liberal or liberal media lying? I've witnessed it many times. And their ignorance on certain issues can be just as shocking as an alt-righter's. Conservatives lie to protect their agenda and liberals lie to protect their agenda. It's like I once heard someone say: "extreme right wingers and extreme left wingers are two sides of the same bats**t crazy coin." The key is to be apolitical at times. Just look at the evidence and come to a decision regardless of your political affiliation.

[lego 44,165]

18 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

where the most rape committed by migrants goes on. And this was a country that never had a problem with this until now.

 

WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE??? 

I have extended family living there in different cities, I’ve visited many times throughout the years, even the so called problematic suburbs. I’ve never felt unsafe. As a white woman. Stop projecting your fear of immigrants on others and repeating Trumpist propaganda. 

Where is your proof that rape crimes were never a big problem until now? Where is your proof that Swedish police divides rape crimes based on race, ethnicity and immigration status of a criminal? What does “by migrants” even mean? So many “non white” or “non native”, are considered Swedes, 2nd, 3rd generations, from mixed marriages etc... so they’re not “migrants”, they’re Swedish, but if they commit a crime you’d put them to “migrant category” with “problematic culture”. That’s just racism, sorry. You’re ignoring the crimes committed by white natives and white European immigrants so you can demonize brown and black people. This is why you’re trying so hard to justify you’re against LEGAL immigration from “certain countries”. 

 

[lego 44,165]

2 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

What evidence have you got that these conservative sources are lying, then? Why do you assume that all conservatives lie?

 

Because they’ve been exposed lying too many times, you’re not paying attention. The video Trump retweeted for example, “Muslim migrant beats up Dutch boy on crutches”, turns out they’re both Dutch, only the attacker had darker hair. He was not an immigrant. This was confirmed by Dutch police. There are so many viral stories and videos like that. Then the American guy who cut his hand and took Snapchat pic with caption “antifa attacked me because of my neonazi looking haircut”, he was exposed few days later. It’s very obvious what their purpose is.