Supersonic 49,376 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Just now, Ziggy said: Different world, though. Those old-world policies made sense with the climate of the world at the time and the U.S.'s role in it. Nowadays they're totally backwards and make no sense. I agree, but also I think they didn't make a lot of sense back in the day because the USA did also have a short but severe stint in Imperialism. I mean going "America first" and then colonizing the Phillipines is a tad bit hypocritical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chic 20,830 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 Fascinating coming from a country that birthed the baseline for what overdramatic people compare our president to Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatsmoneyhoney 807 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 2 hours ago, ViktorStone said: as a person from EU i really cant understand how Trump got elected in the first place .... As a person from the US, neither can I. However, I think it comes mostly from fear. He built (most of) his entire campaign on the fear of others and the fear of people from different cultures. The people are scared of another 9/11? I'll ban some Middle Eastern countries from flying to the US. The people are scared of people coming and stealing their jobs, money, and benefits? I'll build a wall. The rest of his campaign was built on his personal beliefs. He doesn't believe in climate change, therefore he's not gonna do anything about it. He doesn't believe that POC, LGBTQ+, and other minorities are in more danger than white people, therefore he's not gonna do anything about it. Anything he believes in, he's gonna try to do. With his ideology, I don't understand how he got elected, but I perfectly understand how he got elected. A good majority of the US is ignorant and stuck in the old ways of racism, which still continues to this day. free my mind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy 14,340 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 45 minutes ago, Supersonic said: I agree, but also I think they didn't make a lot of sense back in the day because the USA did also have a short but severe stint in Imperialism. I mean going "America first" and then colonizing the Phillipines is a tad bit hypocritical. Oh yeah I mean every major world power is massively hypocritical in some way, shape or form. I just mean the isolationist policies back in the day made a lot more sense given the way the world was. The U.S. could afford to be nationalist and self-centric because they weren't leaders, really. It was still a European world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy 14,340 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 24 minutes ago, gagasxmonsterx said: As a person from the US, neither can I. However, I think it comes mostly from fear. He built (most of) his entire campaign on the fear of others and the fear of people from different cultures. The people are scared of another 9/11? I'll ban some Middle Eastern countries from flying to the US. The people are scared of people coming and stealing their jobs, money, and benefits? I'll build a wall. The rest of his campaign was built on his personal beliefs. He doesn't believe in climate change, therefore he's not gonna do anything about it. He doesn't believe that POC, LGBTQ+, and other minorities are in more danger than white people, therefore he's not gonna do anything about it. Anything he believes in, he's gonna try to do. With his ideology, I don't understand how he got elected, but I perfectly understand how he got elected. A good majority of the US is ignorant and stuck in the old ways of racism, which still continues to this day. He got elected because both parties have been under-serving the mass majority of U.S. citizens. They have. Ask a rural person how their town is doing and you'll understand it. They vote democrat, then republican, then switch again, and again, and again. Nothing ever changes for them. Then you have this guy who wants to "shake up Washington" and they vote for him thinking he is truly the only person that may give them a shot. After all, everyone else said they would and they were dirty liars so what do they have to lose, really? For the bulk of Trump voters, it's got nothing to do with social issues like racism or LGBTQA+ (because they don't see how all issues are interrelated), but quite purely about someone looking out for them. They hadn't voted in awhile because they became jaded and this guy spoke to them and rejuvenated this group of people so they came out to vote. Couple this with the fact that they are only exposed to news that praise him out the ass and aren't very critical of him unless he MAJORLY screws up and it makes sense to me. I think a lot of democrats and leftists look down upon the rural population with such derision when only a minority of them are zealots. These are people and elitist attitudes are not going to persuade them to want to listen. Yes, everyone is racist, but to say they're ignorant or uneducated is just plain rude. They aren't any more ignorant than anyone else, just what they pay attention to is different. Now, this isn't me defending their vote, I still can't fully comprehend it as I find this whole administration abhorrent and their acceptance of Roy Moore even more horrifying. Still, to say that his entire base is consciously racist is plainly wrong. I mean, they're definitely racist as pretty much every white person is, but a lot of them are less neo-nazi cross burners and more just struggling white people looking for someone to listen to them. They're like any voter base with their own set of concerns because they see their lives as a struggle just like the LGBTQA+ do and any other minority. I honestly don't believe that they care about race issues as it doesn't really affect them. That's being complicit, sure, but it's a little different than actively hating on other races. Their struggle is unique in that it's currently a sliding issue. Their cost of living is rising, their jobs are being turned to automation, whole industries towns are built on are going away. It's all happening right now rather than, say, POC concerns which go back centuries. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatsmoneyhoney 807 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ziggy said: That's being complicit, sure, but it's a little different than actively hating on other races. What about the white supremacists in Charlottesville? There were literally people there flaunting Nazi imagery. There were literally people there saying "White Lives Matter." Those are examples of people who are uneducated. Any educated person knows that BLM is NOT about other lives not mattering. And to say that Trump isn't racist is one thing, but we can't forget that he said that there were good people on both sides. He called a side mostly filled with neo-Nazis and racists "good people". We cannot forget that this happened. If we remained silent about issues like this, then nothing would have ever been done. I still stand by my original point of his campaign being based mostly off fear. His BIGGEST campaign promise was the wall, which was supposed to be built because his supporters were scared of the Mexicans coming to take their jobs, money, and benefits. Spoiler But it's good that we have slightly different points of view. Different POVs spark good debate. But I won't answer any responses to this. free my mind Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ziggy 14,340 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 27 minutes ago, gagasxmonsterx said: What about the white supremacists in Charlottesville? There were literally people there flaunting Nazi imagery. There were literally people there saying "White Lives Matter." Those are examples of people who are uneducated. Any educated person knows that BLM is NOT about other lives not mattering. And to say that Drumpf isn't racist is one thing, but we can't forget that he said that there were good people on both sides. He called a side mostly filled with neo-Nazis and racists "good people". We cannot forget that this happened. If we remained silent about issues like this, then nothing would have ever been done. I still stand by my original point of his campaign being based mostly off fear. His BIGGEST campaign promise was the wall, which was supposed to be built because his supporters were scared of the Mexicans coming to take their jobs, money, and benefits. Hide contents But it's good that we have slightly different points of view. Different POVs spark good debate. But I won't answer any responses to this. But you don't win an election off of Charlottesville people. Those are an exceptionally vocal minority group of people who are dedicated racists and bigots. That's a big difference than the dad who had a heart attack and now he and his family are bankrupt because they can't afford it. That's a much bigger fear and reality to most people than the fear of Mexican immigrants or black people. And honestly, some people just don't see BLM as being constructive (noted, I think they are). Thank Fox News for that and also the fact that people view race equality as being colorblind. I mean, if you live in a small town with no black people or Muslims, it's understandable that your view of race equality is going to go through the watered down version of MLK we're taught about in school. Should they know more? Totally, but I'm not going to fault the single mother raising three kids for not spending time on the Internet to learn these things or not going to places with more cultural diversity because she can't afford it. And to sneeringly call roughly a quarter of the population uneducated is a plainly wrong generalization and carries notes of classism which only help to perpetuate divisions in the country across every line including race and income. Plus, I also think it doesn't hold them accountable to their opinions. It says that they're too stupid to know better. Everything right now is a result of growing pains. Tech is bringing everything closer than it was before and this is a very ugly adjustment period where people who would have never otherwise interacted are now doing so in a very new and untested way. We have to find ways to weather it. By no means am I saying that Donald Trump is someone to admire or award praise to. I think he is an absolutely despicable person without any guiding principles and a grossly out of check ego. Still, I think it does a disservice to the millions that voted for him to lump them all into the Charlottesville crowd. Even despite Hillary's win in the popular vote, he still had an overwhelming number of people vote for him. Their racism takes different forms. They aren't all marching about statues and running over dissenters. Just like every Hillary voter isn't a stodgy, old, white East-coaster. I think it's important to look past the generalizations in voter populations if we want to actually reach people to make them think differently. However, I think it's also most important to still be vocal and keep our elected officials in check. Trump's been voted in and now it's our responsibility to hold him accountable for his disturbing behavior towards the country and the world. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morphine Prince 110,034 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 This is just a phase. Trump will leave. The power will transfer to the other side sooner or later. US is the most powerful country in the world. It will do what it must if that power slips too much. Trump is making nationalism rise without realizing we now live in a more global society. Nationalism will fail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GypsyBabe 22,836 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 4 hours ago, Venusfly said: kinda rich coming from Germany. things will recover years later for sure. Was thinking the same thing. We will recover from our “president” just as they have recovered. ⚯͛ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
weed 79,382 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 title is a little flamebait lol "relations with the US will never be the same" is not the same thing as just saying "US will never be the same" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctherainbow 3,162 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 We said the same thing after Hitler, minister sis. It's messy right now, but things change, so calm yo ass down. I'm talkin' 'bout forever, baby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whispering 18,865 Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 30 minutes ago, neptugne said: title is a little flamebait lol "relations with the US will never be the same" is not the same thing as just saying "US will never be the same" Are you surprised? Lol Reminds me of something Fox News would do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economy 53,171 Posted December 11, 2017 Share Posted December 11, 2017 On 2017-12-09 at 10:39 AM, moonsago said: That’s interesting and kinda true, even I, before Trump wanted so bad to move there and create a future for myself there because it seemed like such an open minded country, forward thinking, accepting, full of oportunities but now, after seeing that it’s none of that but full of evil, selfish people I don’t anymore. England here I come. The US is overrated by many people seeking to immigrate for a better life tbh YES it has a high standard of living and freedom if you look at the world as a whole... If you compare it specifically to other Developed industrialized Nations tho its far from the best in many aspects tbh Theres many other countries if i had to leave Canada that Id move to before the US The US would still be in my top 10 or top 20 tho Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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