300.000 protest AGAINST Catalonia's independence in Barcelona

[Melech 9,900]

BARCELONA, Spain — Hundreds of thousands flooded the streets of Barcelona Sunday to call for Catalonia to remain part of Spain, two days after regional lawmakers exacerbated a political crisis by voting for the wealthy region to secede.

Organizers said the rally’s goal was to defend Spain’s unity and reject “an unprecedented attack in the history of democracy.” Leaders of rival pro-union parties from the ruling conservatives, the pro-business liberals and the socialists joined together under the slogan “We are all Catalonia. Common sense for coexistence!”

Societat Civil Catalana, the pro-union grassroots group who organized the demonstration, said more than 1 million people turned out, while the police put the figure at 300,000.

The mood was festive, with demonstrators waving Spanish, Catalan and European flags and chanting slogans in favor of remaining part of Spain. “We won’t let Spain to be torn apart into pieces,” read one banner. “The awakening of a silenced nation,” read another.

No incidents of violence were reported.

Friday’s vote by pro-independence lawmakers in favor of independence, and Madrid’s response triggering unprecedented constitutional powers taking control of Catalan affairs, was the climax of Spain’s worst political crisis in decades. Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy has dissolved Catalonia’s parliament and called a new regional election for Dec. 21."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/barcelona-braces-for-march-to-reject-catalan-independence/2017/10/29/cb97b1c6-bc92-11e7-9294-705f80164f6e_story.html?utm_term=.a1dd2dae6b53

[lego 44,165]

Did all these 300k protest when riot police was stealing ballots with masks on and beating up unarmed citizens AND firefighters? 

 

[Melech 9,900]

4 minutes ago, lego said:

Did all these 300k protest when riot police was stealing ballots with masks on and beating up unarmed citizens AND firefighters? 

 

Two wrongs don't make one right though. The independence is illegal, and so did what the police did. 

[MonsterPaws 2,745]

5 minutes ago, Melech said:

Two wrongs don't make one right though. The independence is illegal, and so did what the police did. 

Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. I.e. in a moral sense and most definitely not in a way that merits police brutality. 

I know you didn't explicitly state that something done illegally is wrong, but it's heavily implied. What the police did is unjustified.

[Melech 9,900]

Just now, MonsterPaws said:

Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. I.e. in a moral sense and most definitely not in a way that merits police brutality. 

I know you didn't explicitly state that something done illegally is wrong, but it's heavily implied. What the police did is unjustified.

I'm not excusing the police brutality. The independence call is also illegal because not even 50% voted in the "referendum". The independence declaration is unjustified, too. 

[lego 44,165]

10 minutes ago, Melech said:

Two wrongs don't make one right though. The independence is illegal, and so did what the police did. 

 

 

One is definitely worse. Police brutality. I wish people would protest more against that. 

[Melech 9,900]

1 minute ago, lego said:

 

 

One is definitely worse. Police brutality. I wish people would protest more against that. 

Considering the negative aspects of an independent Catalonia, I wouldn't say so fast that one is worser than the other one. Right now police brutality looks worse, but when you look in the long term 

[MonsterPaws 2,745]

2 minutes ago, Melech said:

I'm not excusing the police brutality. The independence call is also illegal because not even 50% voted in the "referendum". The independence declaration is unjustified, too. 

Fair enough. I'm not familiar with Catalonia's place within greater Spain.

But still, just because the independence is unjustified doesn't make it by necessity wrong. And though you don't excuse police brutality, you still imply that an illegal action in of itself justifies pushback by legitimate (legal) figures--in this case the police, but not--as you also imply--violently.

I can't help but find the way the authorities are dealing with the issue as violations of the people's rights. And I just wish both sides could come to a compromise of some sort.

[Melech 9,900]

Just now, MonsterPaws said:

Fair enough. I'm not familiar with Catalonia's place within greater Spain.

But still, just because the independence is unjustified doesn't make it by necessity wrong. And though you don't excuse police brutality, you still imply that an illegal action in of itself justifies pushback by legitimate (legal) figures--in this case the police, but not--as you also imply--violently.

I can't help but find the way the authorities are dealing with the issue as violations of the people's rights. And I just wish both sides could come to a compromise of some sort.

I didn't call the referendum illegal (though it is, but the reactions of the police wasn't needed). The declaration of independence IS illegal because it goes AGAINST the majority of people. Thats a violation of human rights as well. 

You are just putting words in my mouth. 

[LetsGetHigh 52,683]

Those 300K can go **** themselves. Sore losers.

[lego 44,165]

7 minutes ago, Melech said:

Considering the negative aspects of an independent Catalonia, I wouldn't say so fast that one is worser than the other one. Right now police brutality looks worse, but when you look in the long term 

 

But what is the better way to show your fellow Catalans that you care about them; protest when they declare independence, because you don’t want your country to split? Or protest when they’re being unjustly beaten by the government forces? I’m just asking, where were all these people then... were they justifying it? 

[Melech 9,900]

1 minute ago, lego said:

 

But what is the better way to show your fellow Caralans that you care about them; protest when they declare independence, because you don’t want your country to split? Or protest when they’re being unjustly beaten by the government forces? I’m just asking, where were all these people then... were they justifying it? 

If it were after me millions of people would have protested police brutality all over the world. 

[MonsterPaws 2,745]

12 minutes ago, Melech said:

I didn't call the referendum illegal (though it is, but the reactions of the police wasn't needed). The declaration of independence IS illegal because it goes AGAINST the majority of people. Thats a violation of human rights as well. 

You are just putting words in my mouth. 

Sheesh no need to get frustrated. You could've pointed out my mistake and carried on the discussion civilly.

The declaration of independence is illegal but once again: illegality does not = wrong.

I think--correct me if I'm wrong--but your moral compass is highly reliant on state laws. You keep implying illegality as something that ought to be fought against.

On a tangent note, we could take homosexuality in some countries as an example. Take my home country the United Arab Emirates, or other Arab countries. There is a general consensus (majority) AGAINST the legalization of homosexuality.

So if I were part of a group that stood up and protested (illegal in the UAE) against the criminalization of homosexuality, would I be violating the human rights of the majority group who don't agree with the protesting group's consensus?

It's not an equivalency to Catalonia but I think it's a damn good analogy. I'd love to hear your take on the matter.

 

[LadyLuca 2,611]

I dont get this serperation thing.Catalonia says they are diffrent (and have the most money) so they want to seperate. IMO that sounds like : "we are so special, we dont want to be named spanish people Uh Uh" -

Is there any ACTUAL reason for an seperation. I mean, freedom my ass right? this is bullshit. Freedom just for the sake of seperation is dumb....Creating borders, drawing some lines and diffrent names..It would be diffrent if there is an dictator in spain or if they had real problems...but this just sounds like little brat teenagers dont want to live at home anymore.

Maybe I just see it from this perspective because of the media. Do I miss something ? is there an acutal problem or thing which justifies the seperation? because I think we dont need more seperation if there is no real problem. We need unity. Europe needs to stick togehter and right now its going into the wrong direction.. nvm- dont wanna talk bout europe here; ill stick to catalonea/spain problem here.

I mean you cant make everyone happy, but there must be some fundermental problems for a seperation right?

(Btw-Of course I think that the police violence was terrible and unacceptable.)

 

 

Can somebody tell me why they want to seperate so badly? and whats their opinion?

[Melech 9,900]

28 minutes ago, MonsterPaws said:

Sheesh no need to get frustrated. You could've pointed out my mistake and carried on the discussion civilly.

The declaration of independence is illegal but once again: illegality does not = wrong.

I think--correct me if I'm wrong--but your moral compass is highly reliant on state laws. You keep implying illegality as something that ought to be fought against.

On a tangent note, we could take homosexuality in some countries as an example. Take my home country the United Arab Emirates, or other Arab countries. There is a general consensus (majority) AGAINST the legalization of homosexuality.

So if I were part of a group that stood up and protested (illegal in the UAE) against the criminalization of homosexuality, would I be violating the human rights of the majority group who don't agree with the protesting group's consensus?

It's not an equivalency to Catalonia but I think it's a damn good analogy. I'd love to hear your take on the matter.

 

you don't get what I am saying  The declaration of independence is illegal AND wrong because it goes against the people's will (as for now). It was an egoistical move from separatists. It has nothing to do what the law says or what not. 

I don't think the persecution of homosexuals is not similar to the independence of Catalonia. Human rights are not debatable, no matter what a country's law are.