Spain to take over Catalonia after declaring independence

[Florian 20,017]

Just now, MonsterOfSpain said:

The thing is that all the member countries have to agree so they can go in, and Spain, Germany, France, Italy and all countries with nationalist regions would never allow it! Catalonia would have to negotiate treaties with every country from 0. It would be an economic tragedy.

So Spain would have to say no to Catalonia and so recognize it as a country  Karma is truly a bitch  

Countries will allow it because they can't do otherwise, the UK, one of the biggest economic engine of the UE is leaving and they can't let a top20 GDP area leave too. European countries are currently supporting Madrid because that's the moral thing to do. But if things becomes serious, they won't turn their back on Catalonia just like they won't turn their back to the UK. The main European countries will put pressure on Madrid so they won't refuse Catalonia to come back.

7 minutes ago, MonsterOfSpain said:

But the thing is Catalonia is filled with corruption aswell! So why do they wanna become independent? The rise of the whole independent process was due to the corruption cases coming to light tbh, Artur Mas used to say that his party wasn't favorable of independence yet when cases about his party started appearing he changed his mind from one day to another. It's honestly so insulting to the Catalan people.

And as I said before I'm absolutely against Rajoy's government, but the thing is Catalan parties had a chance back in 2016 to support a PSOE-led government yet they refused to (same as left-wing PODEMOS btw).

The rise of independists is only due to Rajoy refusing to give Catalonia the new status of autonomy they had voted and the previous government promised to apply. 

[MonsterOfSpain 8,331]

4 minutes ago, Florian said:

So Spain would have to say no to Catalonia and so recognize it as a country  Karma is truly a bitch  

Countries will allow it because they can't do otherwise, the UK, one of the biggest economic engine of the UE is leaving and they can't let a top20 GDP area leave too. European countries are currently supporting Madrid because that's the moral thing to do. But if things becomes serious, they won't turn their back on Catalonia just like they won't turn their back to the UK. The main European countries will put pressure on Madrid so they won't refuse Catalonia to come back.

The rise of independists is only due to Rajoy refusing to give Catalonia the new status of autonomy they had voted and the previous government promised to apply. 

You said it. The UK, the 2nd biggest economy of the EU is leaving and the EU accepted it. Moreover, even when UK's government is becoming less and less sure about its decision, and I'm pretty sure Theresa May would back out from Brexit if she could, there's no going back: the EU has been clear, Brexit means Brexit. Do you think Catalonia's case would be any different? I can't with the delusion.

It wasn't Rajoy who declared the Statute illegal lmao, it was the Constitutional Court. Separation of powers exists in Spain, you know that, don't you?

Anyways, you still haven't answered any of the facts I've given you so I'll just assume you don't have any legit arguments to refute them.

[Chromatislaps 34,854]

23 hours ago, Saint Laurent said:

Spain tho... that's not lawful.

it is lawful, it's in their constitution. Their constitution says Spain is undividable. So in order to truly seperate the Spanish senate has to setup the independence referendum for it to be legal.

[Florian 20,017]

Just now, MonsterOfSpain said:

You said it. The UK, the 2nd biggest economy of the EU is leaving and the EU accepted it. Moreover, even when UK's government is becoming less and less sure about its decision, and I'm pretty sure Theresa May would back out from Brexit if she could, there's no going back: the EU has been clear, Brexit means Brexit. Do you think Catalonia's case would be any different? I can't with the delusion.

It wasn't Rajoy who declared the Statute illegal lmao, it was the Constitutional Court. Separation of powers exists in Spain, you know that, don't you?

Anyways, you still haven't answered any of the facts I've given you so I'll just assume you don't have any legit arguments to refute them.

They're out of the EU yes, but it's not decided yet if they'll be out of Schengen or others. You really think that the EU won't negociate trade treaty? That's delusion indeed.

It'll be the same with Catalonia if things become serious. Catalonia will be out of the EU but they still got access to the market somehow, even if they have to pay for it.

Rajoy refused the promised tax system too. He openly told he didn't want the new statute and fueled the debate with the PP. He then refused to discuss it with Catalonia

It's funny to talk about separation of powers when that's exactly because your powers aren't separated that the two Jordi have been arrested. Wake up ! It's 

I'm gonna capitalize it so maybe you'll read better this time : AS I SAID FEW MESSAGES BEFORE, I NEVER STATED NOR IMPLIED THAT THE REFERENDUM WAS LEGAL NOR THE RESULTS OF IT. SO YOUR LIST OF FACT IS POINTLESS SINCE IT DOESN'T GO AGAINST ANYTHING I SAID. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW ?  

 

12 minutes ago, xoxoDerpanne said:

it is lawful, it's in their constitution. Their constitution says Spain is undividable. So in order to truly seperate the Spanish senate has to setup the independence referendum for it to be legal.

I think he refered to international law (it's above Spanish constitution) that allow the right of people to self-determination. But this article is very vague. So both Spanish government and Catalonian officials could be out of the law

[MonsterOfSpain 8,331]

38 minutes ago, Florian said:

They're out of the EU yes, but it's not decided yet if they'll be out of Schengen or others. You really think that the EU won't negociate trade treaty? That's delusion indeed.

It'll be the same with Catalonia if things become serious. Catalonia will be out of the EU but they still got access to the market somehow, even if they have to pay for it.

Rajoy refused the promised tax system too. He openly told he didn't want the new statute and fueled the debate with the PP. He then refused to discuss it with Catalonia

It's funny to talk about separation of powers when that's exactly because your powers aren't separated that the two Jordi have been arrested. Wake up ! It's 

I'm gonna capitalize it so maybe you'll read better this time : AS I SAID FEW MESSAGES BEFORE, I NEVER STATED NOR IMPLIED THAT THE REFERENDUM WAS LEGAL NOR THE RESULTS OF IT. SO YOUR LIST OF FACT IS POINTLESS SINCE IT DOESN'T GO AGAINST ANYTHING I SAID. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW ?  

I think he refered to international law (it's above Spanish constitution) that allow the right of people to self-determination. 

It's Catalonia the one interested in commercing with the rest of EU countries! EU can perfectly live without Catalonia. If it went through Brexit, it can go through this. On the other hand I'd love to see Catalonia's economic situation if it actually became independent. So far not only 1500 companies have left, but tourist occupation rate has dropped to 80% from 90% this year. And the future is not very promising. World congresses and fairs as important as the MWC won't come back if the instability goes on.

Funny how you're talking about tax system now because when Rajoy called all the presidents from the 17 autonomous communities in Spain to discuss a new way of financing Puigdemont was the only one who refused to go. Who refused to discuss what? 

So you think the Jordi's are political prisoners? I wonder what would happen to you if you got on top of a Police car and stopped them from getting out of a builiding. Wouldn't you be judged? Wouldn't you go to jail?  

I think you know this for sure but just in case I'll tell you anyways, the UN right of self-determination only applies to colonies or repressed regions, something Catalonia is not.

You're gonna need to try harder sis, all of these independentist mantras you keep repeating have been debunked again and again. 

[Saint Laurent 4,862]

1 hour ago, xoxoDerpanne said:

it is lawful, it's in their constitution. Their constitution says Spain is undividable. So in order to truly seperate the Spanish senate has to setup the independence referendum for it to be legal.

International law is more authoritative than domestic constitutional law.