Gaga's "intergenerational pain" speech

[Katie14 4,828]

Spoiler Alert!

Before singing "Joanne" Gaga always explains who Joanne is and talks about the pain her death brought to her family. She explains that in order to heal her own pain she had to get to the root of the pain in her family, "that pain has one name, and its Joanne". Last night she even admitted that she is dressing up as Joanne to try to heal her father, and ultimately heal herself. Her therapist didn't think this was healthy but she disregarded the advice to stop.

 I kind of get where she is coming from. She is talking about the chain reaction that occurs from one terrible situation, and I think she makes a really good point that people often do not think about. The death of Joanne didn't just affect the people who knew her. Her death changed her father and made him angry and overprotective towards Gaga. In turn, this caused a sense of guilt in Gaga, because she felt like she did something wrong to cause her father to act that way towards her. She later became rebellious, which led to her making bad choices with men, ect. 

She kind of loses me when she has this speech because I don't fully understand her logic. She says that there is this pain in her family that she was born into and that she shouldn't be ashamed about it. I think this explanation is comforting to her and helps her relate to her family, but I feel like it can't be accurate. Every bad experience or feeling she has had cannot be linked back to the death of Joanne. That is maybe 20% of it. It just seems like a reach to me. 

[bobbby 939]

11 minutes ago, Katie14 said:

Spoiler Alert!

Before singing "Joanne" Gaga always explains who Joanne is and talks about the pain her death brought to her family. She explains that in order to heal her own pain she had to get to the root of the pain in her family, "that pain has one name, and its Joanne". I kind of get where she is coming from. She is talking about the chain reaction that occurs from one terrible situation and I think she makes a really good point that people often do not think about. The death of Joanne didn't just effect the people who knew her. Her death changed her father and made him angry and overprotective towards Gaga. In turn, this caused a sense of guilt in Gaga because she felt like she did something wrong to cause her father to act that way towards her. She later became rebellious, which led to her making bad choices with men, ect. 

She kind of loses me when she has this speech because I don't fully understand her logic. She says that there is this pain in her family that she was born into and that she shouldn't be ashamed about it. I think this explanation is comforting to her and helps her relate to her family, but I feel like it can't be accurate. Every bad experience or feeling she has had cannot be linked back to the death of Joanne. That is just maybe 20% of it. It just seems like a reach to me. 

I think she's definitely jazzing it up a bit for the audience, surely, but at the same time I see what she means. Her dad's baby sister died so it surely impacted him as a man but also as a father. He was probably much more protective over Gaga in a lot of ways and that snowballs into her being more rebellious etc. I don't think she literally blames Joanne for every bad decision she ever made, she's just saying her death forever changed the Germanotta family.

[GypsyBabe 22,836]

I understand what she is saying completely. My mother lost her mom when she was young, and it has affected me my whole life. It's a pain that extends beyond her personal experience. I wondered if this moment blasted her so badly that she is a different person (she is an amazing kind woman btw). I wonder what relationship I would have had with my grandmother if I had been allowed to meet her. I have been fascinated by her spirit and creativity and humor as it has been told to me even though I never met her. There is a mystique about her memory, but also extreme sadness. Little trinkets all around the house that belonged to her, monuments and little tombstones. 

I don't know if this makes sense...but it's almost like the memory of that person shaped you in some way. Like you desperately want to fill that void. 

If you don't understand this speech, then I consider you very lucky. 

[Katie14 4,828]

1 minute ago, GypsyBabe said:

I understand what she is saying completely. My mother lost her mom when she was young, and it has affected me my whole life. It's a pain that extends beyond her personal experience. I wondered if this moment blasted her so badly that she is a different person (she is an amazing kind woman btw). I wonder what relationship I would have had with my grandmother if I had been allowed to meet her. I have been fascinated by her spirit and creativity and humor as it has been told to me even though I never met her. There is a mystique about her memory, but also extreme sadness. Little trinkets all around the house that belonged to her, monuments and little tombstones. 

I don't know if this makes sense...

If you don't understand this speech, then I consider you very lucky. 

I completely understand that Joanne's death affected Gaga but there are so many other factors and situations that likely contributed to the pain, anxiety, and depression that Gaga experiences today. It seems like Gaga is claiming that the death of Joanne is the sole root cause, when that cannot possibly be true. 

[GypsyBabe 22,836]

4 minutes ago, Katie14 said:

I completely understand that Joanne's death affected Gaga but there are so many other factors and situations that likely contributed to the pain, anxiety, and depression that Gaga experiences today. It seems like Gaga is claiming that the death of Joanne is the sole root cause, when that cannot possibly be true. 

I think that for her it all does stem from Joanne.  She is the reason, both positive and negative, that she is who she is. Joanne's death effected her father in such a way that he drank to much and was extremely overprotective, which led Gaga to crave freedom and rebel etc. It all comes from Joanne and her memory. 

[Katie14 4,828]

3 minutes ago, GypsyBabe said:

I think that for her it all does stem from Joanne.  She is the reason, both positive and negative, that she is who she is. Joanne's death effected her father in such a way that he drank to much and was extremely overprotective, which led Gaga to crave freedom and rebel etc. It all comes from Joanne and her memory. 

I just dont think anyone could possibly say that any one situation is the root cause for who a person becomes. What about all the influences from her mom's side? 

[GypsyBabe 22,836]

10 minutes ago, Katie14 said:

I just dont think anyone could possibly say that any one situation is the root cause for who a person becomes. What about all the influences from her mom's side? 

Look at someone I know as an example. She is a lot younger than her oldest brother. There was a middle child who died from a heart condition. 

Her whole life she has had a wonderful relationship with her mother and a very awkward and strange one with her father. He was distant, unloving in a lot of ways and it really influenced who she is as a person. It affected her confidence and her relationships with men. Her need for approval. 

We were in college and she and her father had a fight and she went to stay with her Nana. Her Nana sat her down and said, "Cat, I'm sorry that you have always felt this way about your father. I wish more than anything that you could have known him before your older brother died. He was always smiling and had a beautiful spirit and joy about life. You would have loved him. Sometimes there are things life that just change you forever. The man who walked into the hospital that day was a completely different person than the man that left without his baby boy. My son died that day too." 

For my friend, her brothers death formed her personality for her whole life. It didn't matter how wonderful her Mom was. 

[Katie14 4,828]

4 minutes ago, GypsyBabe said:

Look at someone I know as an example. She is a lot younger than her oldest brother. There was a middle child who died from a heart condition. 

Her whole life she has had a wonderful relationship with her mother and a very awkward and strange one with her father. He was distant, unloving in a lot of ways and it really influenced who she is as a person. It affected her confidence and her relationships with men. Her need for approval. 

We were in college and she and her father had a fight and she went to stay with her Nana. Her Nana sat her down and said, "Cat, I'm sorry that you have always felt this way about your father. I wish more than anything that you could have known him before your older brother died. He was always smiling and had a beautiful spirit and joy about life. You would have loved him. Sometimes there are things life that just change you forever. The man who walked into the hospital that day was a completely different person than the man that left without his baby boy. My son died that day too." 

For my friend, her brothers death formed her personality for her whole life. It didn't matter how wonderful her Mom was. 

Thats an interesting story. I guess what's throwing me off is this apparent blame of one situation. In your friend's case, the death of her brother deeply impacted her but there are always other influences. For instance, if her mom was just as distance as her dad was, she would have likely been even worse off than she is now. 

[getto 1,552]

Wait...so this is how joanne (her aunt) dressed?

 

[DawnNutella 2,805]

My dads sister passed away when I was little. She was 28 years old. It completely changed my family. Especially my grandparents, they have of course never been the same. They have lost 2 more sons since then, all unexpected, young deaths. My grandfather also passed away after their children did. So my grandmother has lost 3 children and her husband. My dad is the only child my grandmother has left. My aunt that died had a young child that my grandmother has raised since the death and I think she's the only reason my grandmother is still here. Her death was definitely that blast to our family. It changed everything.

I can't in my worst nightmare imagine losing my child. I wouldn't be able to go on. 

One of my best friends lost 2 of her young children a few months ago and has told me if she didn't have her other child that she would have killed herself that day. She contemplated it but couldn't leave the baby. She'll never be the same and her baby will never know the person she was before the tragedy. It changed who she is forever and will change how her child will be raised. That is her family's "blast".

[andy232000 12,222]

1 hour ago, Katie14 said:

I completely understand that Joanne's death affected Gaga but there are so many other factors and situations that likely contributed to the pain, anxiety, and depression that Gaga experiences today. It seems like Gaga is claiming that the death of Joanne is the sole root cause, when that cannot possibly be true. 

I think you missed the point of the album in a way. This album focuses on the pain Joanne brought, not ALL the pain Gaga has felt. you opened up the doors a little too wide open. the album explores a portion of her experiences not all of them. most songs root back to Gagas formation as a woman, which has to do a lot about her father´s way of raising her. which is why many of what she talks about is her behavior around men. joanne´s death changed her father, and by connection changed Gaga. Maybe think about it like a war. Before a war, there is tension and hostility, but the actual fight doesnt being without a detonator. Joanne was that detonator that cased her family to spiral down. Gaga´s independent experiences (particularly with men) are just "casualties" from "the war" if I can make myself clear enough. but without the detonator, those experiences dont exist. 

This is why Gaga is constantly saying that by writing "Joanne" and understanding her aunt, she was finally able to understand her father 

[giskardsb 12,565]

"A cruel king made me tough.  Daddy's girl never good enough"

speaks volumes IMO. 

[Katie14 4,828]

2 hours ago, giskardsb said:

"A cruel king made me tough.  Daddy's girl never good enough"

speaks volumes IMO. 

Isnt the 1st part about the guy who raped her?

[giskardsb 12,565]

15 minutes ago, Katie14 said:

Isnt the 1st part about the guy who raped her?

I've always connected those two lines. I think much more likely to call her dad king than the rapist. 

[WildAmerican 13,672]

My mom and I were talking about this part after our show, and my mom was like "I don't think that's a real thing for most people..." and I was like well all family's are different, but yeah I thought a lot about this too.