Guardian: As Gaga once was, Taylor is now viewed as a snake

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

46 minutes ago, CautiousLurker said:

Btw, the irony in that this website is the only time I see a collective of people repeatedly call Taylor a snake, and then turn around and claim systematic misogyny 

Well perhaps but there are clearly truth to both parts. 

The media dragging Taylor and saying the things they do is a symptom of a larger phenomenon of the media turning on women in the music and Hollywood industry and tearing them down. You can see it happening with Katy Perry right now, and it's happened with Taylor before and Gaga during ARTPOP. 

That doesn't mean an individual woman such as Taylor can't do devious and questionable things that get people to call them out on it and even call them names 

[CautiousLurker 19,476]

Just now, Renly said:

Well, you know, those things negatively affecting men are generally a product of patriarchal society. It's a cycle. 

That's not an argument I took an issue with though - I took an issue with the fact that the article is trying to portray sexism as systemic and not individual... You REALLY aren't paying attention now

[Gagaloo911 12,959]

5 minutes ago, CautiousLurker said:

Don't you 

I have, and I've shown it here. I can talk about the issue in a nuanced and knowledgeable way. Can't say the same about you 

[Ronk 14,762]

I think Taylor is disliked for what she is like as a person, not so much because she is a woman.  There are plenty of very nice female artists who are not disliked.  I stan for nice artists, and have never listened to a Taylor song.  At the end of the day, what someone is like as a person is much more important than any music.  Gaga shines so brightly as a person, which is the main reason I am here.

[CautiousLurker 19,476]

4 minutes ago, Gagaloo92 said:

I have, and I've shown it here. I can talk about the issue in a nuanced and knowledgeable way. Can't say the same about you 

You really haven't, I just don't want to have an argument I've had plenty of times before... Go find my social media (its not that difficult) and scroll through my comment history on sites like facebook if you are REALLY that keen on knowing my opinion on this issue... As far as I can tell, you have your mind set so typing up a coherent response with necessary references cuz of course you'll want to see them... is just not worth the time investment... Teasing back and forth is fine though, it's just silly fun 

[danilov 288]

When was Gaga ever called a snake?  I get the she gets hate at times, but a 'snake'?

[MJHolland 12,725]

1 hour ago, Whispering said:

Number one, I'm not your bitch. 

Secondly, Nicki and Rihanna do seem to get away with things that others wouldn't. Is it because it is part of their bad girl image or the general genre of music they put out? If Gaga, Taylor, Katy did the same, it would be a different story. Even then, women have faced hurdles in hip hop for years, so Nicki has battled that. Nicki and Mariah were used for their catfight on American Idol more than their expertise in their fields. 

Again,

You have no proof or argument that the backlash Taylor (or Gaga) face(d) is because she's a woman.

Taylor did messed up sh*t after she overexposed herself. She's facing backlash bc of it.

Gaga put out (what many call) a mediocre album after overexposing herself, and she also faced backlash. 

Spoiler

for the record I love ARTPOP to death 

There is literally no argument to be made about sexism in this specific case. 

[Killa 17,512]

surely dear

 

[freebit 6,240]

I feel like the criticism of Taylor feels more legitimate than when people were turning on other female artists. Britney, Gaga, Lana, Xtina etc, all got hated on for reasons ranging from ridiculous to awful (flopping, not being ~indie~ enough, having a nervous breakdown). Taylor staying silent about the most sexist election in history after proclaiming herself a feminist so blatantly, and letting Nazi's co-opt her image seem far more sinister.

[Whispering 18,865]

29 minutes ago, MJHolland said:

Again,

You have no proof or argument that the backlash Taylor (or Gaga) face(d) is because she's a woman.

Taylor did messed up sh*t after she overexposed herself. She's facing backlash bc of it.

Gaga put out (what many call) a mediocre album after overexposing herself, and she also faced backlash. 

  Reveal hidden contents

for the record I love ARTPOP to death 

There is literally no argument to be made about sexism in this specific case. 

There is often no "proof" of misogyny or discrimination against minorities. The arguments have been made in this article and in this thread. Women, and by extension other minorities, are often held to different standards in the political, professional and entertainment industries. 

Now...having said that, Taylor hasn't suffered the commercial backlash along with the media backlash. That may mean that the GP generally doesn't agree with the media scrutiny and isn't buying into the narrative that Stan culture is pushing. Sometimes it works out that way.

Also, I don't think Taylor is innocent in all of this, nor was Gaga. Everyone screws up at times. Plus, they are superstars that are removed from normal life, so their reactions are sometimes questionable or unusual to us.  

[StrawberryBlond 14,898]

Started off so well, commenting on the very true connection of women as treacherous snakes as per Adam and Eve...but then quickly went to s**t. As a woman and a feminist, let me school this writer:

"We’re supposed to believe the powerful playboys she courts are blameless lambs." - I don't know what reality you're living in. Rather we're supposed to believe that Taylor is the sweet girl who's left heartbroken by these despicable cads. This concept is rooted in sexism - the belief that every woman is inherently innocent and is the victim of men in every situation. In reality, the woman can be just as much to blame. For the record, it's been predicted for the longest time that the reason why all of Taylor's relationships apart from Calvin ended at the 3 month mark so consistently is because this is the time when she starts bringing up the possibility of marriage and kids and therefore scares these men off. It's not a bad dream to have by any means, but it's way too early to spring such things onto men, particularly when both parties are so young.

"In a society that supposedly abhors the gender wage gap, one could be forgiven for thinking Swift’s unashamed defence of her intellectual property and rightful earnings to be admirable." - Are you kidding me? She was being greedy. Big difference. Greed is not a good look on anyone, male or female. Whenever Taylor sues someone or applies an unnecessary copyright, it never comes off well, it's like she's just chasing the paper. No amount of money is enough for her even though she has more than she'll ever spend. Not an agreeable personality trait, male or female.

"When trying to call out Nicki Minaj in a now infamous Twitter quarrel, she demonstrated ignorance of the intersection of race and feminism." - Now, hold on a minute. Both sides were problematic and there was no virtuous side to root for. But one thing's clear - Nicki started it all off by whining because she didn't get what she wanted. She actually was up for other nominations that night but had the audacity to complain because she missed out on the one she really wanted? What a diva. She pathetically tried to claim that she missed out on this nomination because she was black, despite the fact that Beyonce was nominated in the category (not to mention, there were other black artists nominated across the board) and not having the awareness to accept that Anaconda was a trashy video and sent a horrible message that the VMAs maybe didn't want to endorse as Video of the Year material. An artist with a too-high opinion of themselves throwing a tantrum and playing the race card has nothing to do with the intersection of race and feminism. People of colour aren't right all the time, you know.

"Regardless of what Swift does, she is accused of being a treacherous temptress. She’s always a snake." - Because she's never shown herself to be anything other than that. Even in her country days. Appearances can be deceiving and all that. Perhaps, being a guy, you've not been subject to the manipulative ways of women and how they can be champion backstabbers and pick away at someone without anyone else ever knowing it? A lot of women conduct their problematic natures behind closed doors. Women can spot the culprits, men have more of a difficult time, hence why so many hapless fools fall for golddigging hussies despite being warned by their female family members.

"Swift knows she can’t win, so she is content to play up to whatever role will bring her temporarily back into favour." - Oh, she could win. By honestly and maturely owning up to her mistakes and admitting that she's lied before and promise to change. But no, she continues to play the victim, in new and spectacular ways. The woman is a textbook narcissist. She doesn't think she needs to change a thing about herself, even when thousands of detractors are pointing it out.

"Yes, Swift’s new single is a diss track, but she’s dissing us. And we probably deserve it." - Now, that's where you completely lost any respectability. This is totally playing into that SJW version of original sin. No, sorry, we have nothing to feel guilty for. Taylor is a celebrity, therefore, she puts herself out there to be judged and we will decide if we like her personality, choices, music, etc and whether to support them or not. There is no shame in being turned off by what we've been presented with. That's the nature of celebrity. Can't handle it? Don't choose to become famous. I have nothing to feel guilty for in my dislike of her. Take the poker out your behind and grow a friggin' backbone.

 

1 hour ago, Ziggy said:

Maybe recently lol how about every black male musician ever getting seconds when it came to the music industry. They had to start a whole freaking genre (Motown) to get theirs and it STILL got taken from them and the king to rise out of it (MJ) was struck down and vilified. Let's not even get into how Elvis up and stole rock and roll and work from black musicians...

my point is that while misogyny is certainly alive and vibrant, men have also had their share, just maybe not as many white men. I can count a total of 0 Asian famous musicians in the west, for example (except Yo Yo Ma). So I see it as more complex than men vs. women. This is an issue that is intersectional and requires a lot of care to discuss effectively.

What? Black male musicians have been killing it in the music industry since the 80's. And they still are. Black female musicians do well too, but never quite on their level. I'm tired of this lie that black artists are underrepresented and unfairly treated in the industry. Anyone with 2 eyes can look at the stats and see this isn't true. Switch off from what you're told to believe and look at the actual facts. Right now, especially, it's a really hard time to be a white woman in the industry. Taylor's the only one who's legit doing well currently. And why does it always come back to Elvis? He respected and appreciated black artists, he grew up with black singers in church. And he once said that he didn't start rock n roll, he just jumped on a trend. And as for MJ, well, talented, yes, but those accusations have never been proven true or false, so why assume automatic innocence? Would you say the same if it were a white man accused of the same thing?

Yes, men get sexism too and yes, even white men. They're certainly getting a hard time of it right now. They're being accused of being neo Nazi KKK sympathisers just on the basis of being white males. Good point, there are no mega successful Asian artists in the west (well, Psy had one hit, but no matter) but that's because they aren't promoted in these parts. For whatever reason, they want to stay in Asia, focused on appealing to their Asian markets, most of them don't even put their songs into English. So, how on earth are they meant to apply to foreign markets? It's not racism, it's just management decisions. Indeed, this is an interesting issue but it's not as clear cut as you'd be made to believe.

[SpadesToStart 3,481]

Honestly it's not that complicated.   It's not always the media or the patriarchy trying to tear down women.  Maybe Taylor has just consistently shown herself to be a petty, self-centered person who lacks emotional maturity...

[zakariah 11,722]

'In 2017, it is unacceptable for famous women to learn on the job – they must emerge from the womb with a complete working knowledge of intersectional feminism and if they don’t they apparently deserve a sustained campaign of online abuse. It’s hardly surprising that a year later, Swift backtracked on endorsing misogynist lyrics by West – she was likely terrified of making another misstep.'

This is so true tbh, if everything went on without a hitch, & Taylor did agree to let Kanye call her a 'bitch' on Famous, and people found out that she gave her consent, majority of people would still attack her for letting 'a man call you a bitch', and calling her 'fake feminist'.

[gagaslefttatoo 264]

sorry, don't compare TS to Gaga !

Gaga fought hard to gain GP respect after downfall from ARTPOP era. she show her true golden talent and SHE DESERVE IT

meanwhile TS always makes controversy surrounding her to turn into one of her song (every break up and now this !?!!?) so....?

[LateToCult 40,915]

6 hours ago, MJHolland said:

What.... no ones dislikes Taylor because she's a woman... people dislike her because she lied in public to put down Kanye West, and bullies Katy Perry by abandoning her own promises and values to release all her music on Spotify/streaming right when Katy's album dropped. 

People dislike her bc she's done mean things...

Get out of here with the patriarchy bullsh*t. It's phony articles like this that make it hard to call out actually misogyny, which there is plenty of. 

Louder for the people in the back!