The GP and Katy Perry

[Bradley 58,660]

9 minutes ago, Kylie Jenner said:

You're right about the Xtina one....I realised Lotus doesn't really count as a comeback  but girl, truely, wherehaveyoubeen.mp3 with Rihanna? ANTI definitely didn't sell well. It only got two singles alone, discluding 45S, BBHMM and AO. Also according NY times, the album sold "fewer than 1,000 copies" in the US first week. Her last album Unapologetic got more singles. 

Either way my point wasn't to pick out flops, it was to show that every artist, particularly female artists have their flops...and that Katy should just learn from it and become better for KP5. As the saying goes, don't be bitter just better better, Katy definitely ain't being better thats for sure.

What? But Work, Love on the Brain and Needed Me were everywhere and this album got Rihanna like more than 5 Grammy nominations. It's also double platinum certified (from Samsung's deal I know but still it's sorta an achievement).

Also it spawned the Anti World Tour which grossed $107.5 million from only 75 shows.

[StrawberryBlond 14,602]

Showing your vulnerable side to the public is fine if you're that kind of artist. But Katy's been playing the goofball for too long for anyone to take that route seriously from her. The music reviewer, ToddInTheShadows, once said: "Katy just can't pull off personal tragedy, she's just too artificial for it." It explains why her ballads have never had the massive success that her uptempo, fun, dancey, bubblegum tracks have had. Playing to the youth market is fine for your first 2 albums but you should start maturing by your third if you want to stick around but Katy and her team got far too greedy and just wanted that major pop success again, so the result was Prism, her most immature album yet. And it turned off her older fanbase who now thought she was too childish and all the younger fans grew up a little by the time Witness came out and now think Katy's too serious for them. That's why Witness isn't selling. A mature image a decade into her career was too late. The young market now think she's too old to stan for (she's almost 33, and every pop girl struggles when they enter their 30's) and the older market have decided that she's an artist for the kids and don't find any credibility in her music.

16 hours ago, Kylie Jenner said:

I applaud Katy for pushing the whole expectation of a "hot girl" having long hair.

I don't know why she thought she could pull it off, though. That kind of cut is never going to be considered hot. We've seen Miley be slammed and laughed at when she did it, what made Katy think she could still be attractive with the same style? What she doesn't seem to realise is that you need a seriously gorgeous face to carry off a cropped cut when you're a woman and we all know she's below average without make-up. She looks quite pretty when she was on Ellen and the trailer from the SS video but that's because she's covered in make-up. Foundation, eyeshadow, mascara, eyeliner, lipstick, contouring, the lot. But when we saw her in her live vlogs and the Witness livestream with no make up on, she looked plain as hell. She even looked a bit ill, especially in that section with James Corden. The public have seen that the Katy Perry they thought was a super hot bombshell was actually a plain girl who they wouldn't look twice at if they passed her in the street. Katy's hotness was a major source of her power and she lost it when she cut off her hair. It's like the biblical tale of Samson and Delilah. Female celebrities always regret cropped cuts. That's why they never last for long. Their male fanbase is turned off and their female fanbase no longer want to look like them, so they revert back. It's a wonder any of them do it in the first place. The only woman I've seen who can truly carry off short hair and look good was Halle Berry who I actually think looks better with short hair than long hair. But sorry, that expectation of a woman's attractiveness being connected with long hair isn't going away anytime soon. Its been too ingrained for centuries. I see no point pushing against it. I wish Gaga hadn't uglified herself throughout her career. She could have been so much bigger if she'd just embraced her natural good looks. Why anyone would voluntarily go from a 10 to a 2 is beyond me.

[Bradley 58,660]

32 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Showing your vulnerable side to the public is fine if you're that kind of artist. But Katy's been playing the goofball for too long for anyone to take that route seriously from her. The music reviewer, ToddInTheShadows, once said: "Katy just can't pull off personal tragedy, she's just too artificial for it." It explains why her ballads have never had the massive success that her uptempo, fun, dancey, bubblegum tracks have had. Playing to the youth market is fine for your first 2 albums but you should start maturing by your third if you want to stick around but Katy and her team got far too greedy and just wanted that major pop success again, so the result was Prism, her most immature album yet. And it turned off her older fanbase who now thought she was too childish and all the younger fans grew up a little by the time Witness came out and now think Katy's too serious for them. That's why Witness isn't selling. A mature image a decade into her career was too late. The young market now think she's too old to stan for (she's almost 33, and every pop girl struggles when they enter their 30's) and the older market have decided that she's an artist for the kids and don't find any credibility in her music.

I don't know why she thought she could pull it off, though. That kind of cut is never going to be considered hot. We've seen Miley be slammed and laughed at when she did it, what made Katy think she could still be attractive with the same style? What she doesn't seem to realise is that you need a seriously gorgeous face to carry off a cropped cut when you're a woman and we all know she's below average without make-up. She looks quite pretty when she was on Ellen and the trailer from the SS video but that's because she's covered in make-up. Foundation, eyeshadow, mascara, eyeliner, lipstick, contouring, the lot. But when we saw her in her live vlogs and the Witness livestream with no make up on, she looked plain as hell. She even looked a bit ill, especially in that section with James Corden. The public have seen that the Katy Perry they thought was a super hot bombshell was actually a plain girl who they wouldn't look twice at if they passed her in the street. Katy's hotness was a major source of her power and she lost it when she cut off her hair. It's like the biblical tale of Samson and Delilah. Female celebrities always regret cropped cuts. That's why they never last for long. Their male fanbase is turned off and their female fanbase no longer want to look like them, so they revert back. It's a wonder any of them do it in the first place. The only woman I've seen who can truly carry off short hair and look good was Halle Berry who I actually think looks better with short hair than long hair. But sorry, that expectation of a woman's attractiveness being connected with long hair isn't going away anytime soon. Its been too ingrained for centuries. I see no point pushing against it. I wish Gaga hadn't uglified herself throughout her career. She could have been so much bigger if she'd just embraced her natural good looks. Why anyone would voluntarily go from a 10 to a 2 is beyond me.

But the point is Katy Perry didn't cut her hair to appeal to the public. She cut her hair simply because she wanted to. And she wanted people to love her because of her music and not her good looks.

But yes I can totally understand where you're coming from. I just don't think Katy Perry wanted to appeal to the public in the first place, at least not in terms of looks.

Gaga has alwayd marketed herself as an artpiece rather than a hot blondie so her audience never really left. Her audience has always been here for the music and talent and vocals and that's why I'm really proud of her. Besides, she can look really beautiful and elegant when she wants to (Oscars, Emmys, Golden Globe), or she can look like a rockstar or superstar (2017 and 2016 Grammys, JWT outfits).

[StrawberryBlond 14,602]

22 minutes ago, Bradley said:

But the point is Katy Perry didn't cut her hair to appeal to the public. She cut her hair simply because she wanted to. And she wanted people to love her because of her music and not her good looks.

But yes I can totally understand where you're coming from. I just don't think Katy Perry wanted to appeal to the public in the first place, at least not in terms of looks.

Gaga has alwayd marketed herself as an artpiece rather than a hot blondie so her audience never really left. Her audience has always been here for the music and talent and vocals and that's why I'm really proud of her. Besides, she can look really beautiful and elegant when she wants to (Oscars, Emmys, Golden Globe), or she can look like a rockstar or superstar (2017 and 2016 Grammys, JWT outfits).

I do wonder if she cut it in order to escape her Katy Perry persona. She did say words to that effect on her livestream. I don't think she really wanted the cut because she genuinely loved the style, she was just going through an identity crisis and made a bad choice. She tried to cover it up by saying she cut it short to make up for hair loss when she dyed it blonde but I'm really not buying it. She just didn't like the reaction the public gave it, so she tried to pawn it off as a decision she had no choice but to do.

I don't think she would have kept up her most famous looks if she never wanted to appeal to the public, though. I'm totally of the belief that a woman can be visually appealing and make good music, she shouldn't have to choose. The world isn't split into hot girls who make bad music and ugly girls who make good music. You can be amazing in multiple ways. It's like saying a woman can't be pretty and smart. Limiting us to having to make the choice when we could be both to be utterly awesome is just typical of the sexist mentality we're forced into. Katy could easily have done more experimental music while looking hot. But for some reason, she thought she had to look different, 'edgy' and androgynous to do it because it was the only way people would accept it or something.

Yeah, Gaga's got a hardcore fanbase who will always be here for her but she has lost millions in sales from the public partly because she chooses to look so weird. They'd have held on a lot longer if she looked mainstream pretty all the time. You'll notice that the biggest thing any haters of her slammed was her looks. Prettiness wins acceptance and gets you places, it's just a fact. I just don't know why Gaga felt the need to alienate her audience by making herself look ugly sometimes. I wouldn't want people to have a false impression of me and that includes my looks.

[Bradley 58,660]

8 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I do wonder if she cut it in order to escape her Katy Perry persona. She did say words to that effect on her livestream. I don't think she really wanted the cut because she genuinely loved the style, she was just going through an identity crisis and made a bad choice. She tried to cover it up by saying she cut it short to make up for hair loss when she dyed it blonde but I'm really not buying it. She just didn't like the reaction the public gave it, so she tried to pawn it off as a decision she had no choice but to do.

I don't think she would have kept up her most famous looks if she never wanted to appeal to the public, though. I'm totally of the belief that a woman can be visually appealing and make good music, she shouldn't have to choose. The world isn't split into hot girls who make bad music and ugly girls who make good music. You can be amazing in multiple ways. It's like saying a woman can't be pretty and smart. Limiting us to having to make the choice when we could be both to be utterly awesome is just typical of the sexist mentality we're forced into. Katy could easily have done more experimental music while looking hot. But for some reason, she thought she had to look different, 'edgy' and androgynous to do it because it was the only way people would accept it or something.

Yeah, Gaga's got a hardcore fanbase who will always be here for her but she has lost millions in sales from the public partly because she chooses to look so weird. They'd have held on a lot longer if she looked mainstream pretty all the time. You'll notice that the biggest thing any haters of her slammed was her looks. Prettiness wins acceptance and gets you places, it's just a fact. I just don't know why Gaga felt the need to alienate her audience by making herself look ugly sometimes. I wouldn't want people to have a false impression of me and that includes my looks.

You're missing the point. I'm not saying a woman can never look good and be talented at the same time. I'm saying she wanted her audience to still accept her despite her getting rid off her hot looks, very often it's what humans do to assure themselves that they are accepted, regardless of how they look.

Gaga doesn't intentionally make herself look ugly though, neither did Katy actually, they just chose to be unconventional because they wanted it, it's what they liked, and they thought those looks interpreted their art in better ways. It's not a deliberate attempt at making their audience think they are ugly.

[StrawberryBlond 14,602]

9 minutes ago, Bradley said:

You're missing the point. I'm not saying a woman can never look good and be talented at the same time. I'm saying she wanted her audience to still accept her despite her getting rid off her hot looks, very often it's what humans do to assure themselves that they are accepted, regardless of how they look.

Gaga doesn't intentionally make herself look ugly though, neither did Katy actually, they just chose to be unconventional because they wanted it, it's what they liked, and they thought those looks interpreted their art in better ways. It's not a deliberate attempt at making their audience think they are ugly.

The sad thing is, though, when it comes to "will the public accept me if I'm not pretty?" question, we know what the answer is. When women are thought of as unattractive, they typically go downhill socially. Xtina flopped badly and never recovered when she put on all that weight. Miley ruined any thoughts of her being hot when she cut her hair and was seen as a mess ever since. This is why I will never cut my long hair. Like most people, my hair determines my attractiveness. With our hair completely obscured, we all look pretty much the same. Most of us have androgynous faces. But add hair and we suddenly look like men or women. Therefore, the key to a woman looking feminine is in having long hair, to deflect from the androgynous face. I never understood why some people told me that I should shorten my hair in order to "frame my face." I'd look like a plain Jane with short hair, I've pinned it up to prove it. Because of our delicate features, it's very easy to look like an adolescent boy with short hair. Hence, why so many people said Katy looked like Justin Bieber.

Point is, so many women in the past have tried and failed to challenge the long hair ideal. But it doesn't work because not enough women are following it and they aren't keeping the style for long enough. Every woman on earth would have to adopt the style and it would take literally centuries of reconditioning the mind to accept it differently. Most people don't interpret a short cut as "this woman's trying to interpret her art differently." They just think: "Why has she cut her hair? It looks awful."

[Bradley 58,660]

20 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

The sad thing is, though, when it comes to "will the public accept me if I'm not pretty?" question, we know what the answer is. When women are thought of as unattractive, they typically go downhill socially. Xtina flopped badly and never recovered when she put on all that weight. Miley ruined any thoughts of her being hot when she cut her hair and was seen as a mess ever since. This is why I will never cut my long hair. Like most people, my hair determines my attractiveness. With our hair completely obscured, we all look pretty much the same. Most of us have androgynous faces. But add hair and we suddenly look like men or women. Therefore, the key to a woman looking feminine is in having long hair, to deflect from the androgynous face. I never understood why some people told me that I should shorten my hair in order to "frame my face." I'd look like a plain Jane with short hair, I've pinned it up to prove it. Because of our delicate features, it's very easy to look like an adolescent boy with short hair. Hence, why so many people said Katy looked like Justin Bieber.

Point is, so many women in the past have tried and failed to challenge the long hair ideal. But it doesn't work because not enough women are following it and they aren't keeping the style for long enough. Every woman on earth would have to adopt the style and it would take literally centuries of reconditioning the mind to accept it differently. Most people don't interpret a short cut as "this woman's trying to interpret her art differently." They just think: "Why has she cut her hair? It looks awful."

As harsh as this can be to those who want to challenge conventional beauty, I agree.

It's also why I said you should never reveal your vulnerable side to the public, because as much as everyone says 'oh it's okay to cry, it's okay to ask questions there are no stupid questions, it's okay to fail.' I've heard so much of these that I truly believed them. Until recently I have discovered that it is not the case with the world at all, the world or even very close friends love someone who is independent, strong and intelligent. The world hates vulnerability, and Katy just reminded me of that.

[StrawberryBlond 14,602]

12 minutes ago, Bradley said:

As harsh as this can be to those who want to challenge conventional beauty, I agree.

It's also why I said you should never reveal your vulnerable side to the public, because as much as everyone says 'oh it's okay to cry, it's okay to ask questions there are no stupid questions, it's okay to fail.' I've heard so much of these that I truly believed them. Until recently I have discovered that it is not the case with the world at all, the world or even very close friends love someone who is independent, strong and intelligent. The world hates vulnerability, and Katy just reminded me of that.

In an ideal world, all kinds of looks would be accepted but the world's never been ideal. But the upside is that there's someone out there for everyone. There are communities who praise unconventional looks as attractive and it's a matter of finding your niche. But expecting the whole world to go along with your idea of unconventional beauty? Not going to happen.

You're right, the world isn't very accomodating to vulnerability. Katy framed her vulnerability in a very pretentious way too. She livestreamed a therapy session. That's just taking vulnerability to a whole new level and instead of making her look "human" and "real," it just made her look weak. Its intentions just didn't come off well. The biggest female names in music right now are the ones who are displaying confidence. The only exception is perhaps Adele but a heartbreak ballad is catnip to a lot of people and Adele certainly doesn't have a vulnerable personality. She swears, she cackles, she's outgoing. But Katy this era has come off as so tentative and unsure of herself. The public sensed her uncertainty and didn't have any faith in her new work because of it.

[Xoxo Adriana 15,040]

3 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Showing your vulnerable side to the public is fine if you're that kind of artist. But Katy's been playing the goofball for too long for anyone to take that route seriously from her. The music reviewer, ToddInTheShadows, once said: "Katy just can't pull off personal tragedy, she's just too artificial for it." It explains why her ballads have never had the massive success that her uptempo, fun, dancey, bubblegum tracks have had. Playing to the youth market is fine for your first 2 albums but you should start maturing by your third if you want to stick around but Katy and her team got far too greedy and just wanted that major pop success again, so the result was Prism, her most immature album yet. And it turned off her older fanbase who now thought she was too childish and all the younger fans grew up a little by the time Witness came out and now think Katy's too serious for them. That's why Witness isn't selling. A mature image a decade into her career was too late. The young market now think she's too old to stan for (she's almost 33, and every pop girl struggles when they enter their 30's) and the older market have decided that she's an artist for the kids and don't find any credibility in her music.

I don't know why she thought she could pull it off, though. That kind of cut is never going to be considered hot. We've seen Miley be slammed and laughed at when she did it, what made Katy think she could still be attractive with the same style? What she doesn't seem to realise is that you need a seriously gorgeous face to carry off a cropped cut when you're a woman and we all know she's below average without make-up. She looks quite pretty when she was on Ellen and the trailer from the SS video but that's because she's covered in make-up. Foundation, eyeshadow, mascara, eyeliner, lipstick, contouring, the lot. But when we saw her in her live vlogs and the Witness livestream with no make up on, she looked plain as hell. She even looked a bit ill, especially in that section with James Corden. The public have seen that the Katy Perry they thought was a super hot bombshell was actually a plain girl who they wouldn't look twice at if they passed her in the street. Katy's hotness was a major source of her power and she lost it when she cut off her hair. It's like the biblical tale of Samson and Delilah. Female celebrities always regret cropped cuts. That's why they never last for long. Their male fanbase is turned off and their female fanbase no longer want to look like them, so they revert back. It's a wonder any of them do it in the first place. The only woman I've seen who can truly carry off short hair and look good was Halle Berry who I actually think looks better with short hair than long hair. But sorry, that expectation of a woman's attractiveness being connected with long hair isn't going away anytime soon. Its been too ingrained for centuries. I see no point pushing against it. I wish Gaga hadn't uglified herself throughout her career. She could have been so much bigger if she'd just embraced her natural good looks. Why anyone would voluntarily go from a 10 to a 2 is beyond me.

Overall, I do think she pulls off a black weave far better.

[KingRedd 3,139]

I just think her change was very sudden and drastic. She went from sweet ol Katy to Woke and Dab Katy. Gaga transitioned through her career very well. Each video got more and more deep and "weird" until finally she could go all out with Bad Romance without it being too crazy for her to do. Katy just suddenly changed and i don't think people could keep up. It didn't help that she was dabbing all over the place 

[Bradley 58,660]

3 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

In an ideal world, all kinds of looks would be accepted but the world's never been ideal. But the upside is that there's someone out there for everyone. There are communities who praise unconventional looks as attractive and it's a matter of finding your niche. But expecting the whole world to go along with your idea of unconventional beauty? Not going to happen.

You're right, the world isn't very accomodating to vulnerability. Katy framed her vulnerability in a very pretentious way too. She livestreamed a therapy session. That's just taking vulnerability to a whole new level and instead of making her look "human" and "real," it just made her look weak. Its intentions just didn't come off well. The biggest female names in music right now are the ones who are displaying confidence. The only exception is perhaps Adele but a heartbreak ballad is catnip to a lot of people and Adele certainly doesn't have a vulnerable personality. She swears, she cackles, she's outgoing. But Katy this era has come off as so tentative and unsure of herself. The public sensed her uncertainty and didn't have any faith in her new work because of it.

That kind of sucks because I listen to Witness regularly, and it's one of the albums this year that I listen to a lot.

If she were to come to my city, I would go see her live. Unfortunately, the GP doesn't react the same.

[Pray4FameGa 3,141]

23 hours ago, Kylie Jenner said:

I applaud Katy for pushing the whole expectation of a "hot girl" having long hair. What I don't like is that she doesn't take the flop she gets. Gaga may have not taken it well on the inside...however she stayed professional through it, she didn't create things to further get her 5 minutes of attention...she decided to take a break instead and work on Jazz music. Katy however has been doing senseless things to get more attention (i.e. crying on ig live stream because BA wasn't being played on the radio, joking about Britney's mental health and more).

I think after the Witness era is over, she needs to take a break, recover as an artist. And just like Gaga, make a huge comeback that people will love. Obviously, Gaga's comeback wasn't as expected by the GP but knowing Katy's music, people will like her again if she takes her time to create new music. What Katy also needs to realise is that almost every pop icon has been through their flops, Madonna, Gaga, Nicki, Rihanna, Xtina. So she shouldn't feel like her career is over when it's not, just learn to improve and move forward ya know?

Gaga's comeback is due solely to the Super Bowl though, interest for her was at an all-time low just before that