Bebe Rexha: I Was Told I Couldn't Sing Hip Hop Cause I'm a White Girl

[Oriane 21,119]

13 hours ago, F AM E said:

Oh boo frikken hoo. Sorry you're not allowed to capitalize on a culture you don't even understand. I get where she's coming but hip hop started because it was a creative outlet for black and latinos Who were being oppressed. So it's a little annoying when white people wanna join the party when they were the ones who were being discriminatory in the first place 

Not saying white people cant be a part of hip hop but know it's history and know your place and your privelege. 

Ok

So black people shouldn't do opera either

[migamiga 12,102]

2 minutes ago, Oriane said:

Ok

So black people shouldn't do opera either

You're not serious right? What you said is probably the most ridiculous comment I've ever read on this site. I truly hope you are under the age of 12 cause if not, I highly suggest you do some research on black history in america. Blacks weren't even allowed to drink from the same fountain as white people so don't even come here with your opera comment. You're clearly not understanding the situation and I hope you learn more about the history of discrimination, civil rights violations, and white-washing in america.

Please dont @ me again with anymore ignorance

[littlepotter 75,147]

18 hours ago, Jed said:

lmfao Gagadaily finding this more important than race issues that affect black people

People come to a pop forum to discuss pop music  it's simple. I don't even see why social issues are discussed here since they almost always end up in arguments that could easily have been avoided or taken somewhere else.

[StrawberryBlond 14,890]

21 minutes ago, Creativek said:

And then gets referred to as a jar of crying mayonnaise. Like what the heck is that, lol.

I agree with most of your points, I really don't think white women deal with AS MUCH racism as black women do, though. At least not in America. 

Yep, the pictures of mayo are really getting on my wick as well. Do people seriously think that's funny? If I posted a picture of a watermelon or fried chicken in response to a genuine complaint from a black person, I'd be WP'd so fast my feet wouldn't even touch the ground. But a (usually white, ironically enough) person posts a picture of mayo underneath a genuine complaint from a white person and they actually get likes for it. It may be a small issue but it's little things that this that prove that the "equality" that some people are fighting for is nothing more than special treatment. The right to make fun of white people with no consequence, yet expect to be treated respectfully in return. Here I was thinking respect was the ideal route to take to be treated the same as everyone else, my mistake.

Of course black women deal with racism, I wasn't denying that. But I think white women have to deal with as much in their own way. I've been over before how white women are seen as easy prey for men of certain cultures (trying to be diplomatic when I say that). I've seen so much evidence of this and have talked with other white women who've been through this. There are certain people in this world that view white women as nothing but sex objects, view them as less than human (it's the downside to being the ultimate beauty standard which no one really seems to address). Watch the true serial, Three Girls, to witness the extent to which this is the case. These girls were groomed into prostitution and when it was reported, the police did nothing about it because the girls were white (and I must add, all the many victims were white), the perpetrators were Arab and they didn't want to be accused of racism. But whenever I bring up this story and many other cases of it, most people, shockingly, most of them white, bat it away, say it wasn't a hate crime. They refuse to see that white people can be victims of hate crime as well. White women are in serious danger from sex crimes because of these toxic stereotypes spread about us being promiscious, we'd do it with anyone. And when we report it, no one believes us. White women are not protected little gems in society like we're told they are. The reality is very different. And when I saw that MTV Decoded episode about "Black Female Stereotypes That Have To Go," all I could think was, apart from the mammy, was "These are stereotypes that affect all women." To say that they're just a black issue is so untruthful and damaging. Every race sexualises its women but some definitely suffer from it more than others. Naturally, the ones that have been socially reinforced as the prettiest (white women) and the ones that have been socially reinforced as the most submissive (Asian women) are, not surprisingly, the groups most widely affected by this. But to hear any SJW talk, you'd think black women are the only racial group that has ever suffered and is suffering, any hardship ever, like it's unique to them. And while they deserve to voice their problems, they shouldn't be silencing other women who claim the same thing just because they're used to the biggest amount of oppression points.

[YeehawKylie 7,817]

54 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Good on her for speaking out on this. This kind of stuff flies under the radar and as soon as you start to bring it up, people try and silence you and assume the worst of you.

I think it's fine for her to speak out on it (or more than 'fine'). That being said, at her show she said 'Rihanna can't hit those high notes' rather than saying 'the high notes in the song were sung by me'. Rexha allowed her demo vocals to be used as background vocals for the song, so it is not as though it was anything intentionally done by Rihanna or her team to spite Bebe.

54 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

White women are caught up in just as much racism and sexism as any black woman but for some reason, the white side gets silenced. A white woman complaining is seen as a whiner, a spoiled bitch, a pampered princess. Which is pretty racist when you think about it. But when a black woman complains, people get all serious and listen to her.

This is going to open a lot of discussion, which I hope will remain civilized (as others weigh in, I know we'll keep it classy). I think this is too much of a blanket statement. Suggesting that black women are listened to and white women are not is an opinion from your own perspective, which I respect. However, I think plenty of black women (and Latina women and so on) would disagree, saying they feel the words or opinion of a white women are more respected and validated. That's not to say white women still do not experience sexism, but it challenges the added weight of racism and sexism on minority women. In the United States, studies already show white women are paid better than any other racial subgroup (while still being paid less than men). Black and Hispanic women are hit hardest by the wage gap in the United States. The pay gap isn't too different in the UK either. Then you see studies of black girls being seen as 'less innocent' than white girls in  American schools.

I'd agree that Bebe shouldn't be chastised for opening up about possible struggles in the music industry (nor portrayed as a crying jar of mayonnaise ). However, I think openly stating that when "black women complain, people listen to her" is as unfair as belittling Bebe's frustration with getting into hip hop. I think we roam the internet and experience this bubble of 'social justice' where there is heightened visibility for these issues, but it does not always translate into the real world.

54 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

You can simultaneously focus on 2 issues, you know.

Thank you. That was a ridiculous post in this thread. This is GagaDaily. Why people get shocked that we discuss entertainment and music news is beyond me. We can discuss pop culture and show concern for real world issues. Not sure why that was brought up here.

54 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

How is this a nasty attitude? She's sticking up for herself. She's not being a diva, she's telling the truth and there's no better time for saying that in life than at the beginning of your career. I don't think she was being sarcastic about the headlines, it sounded like a genuine sassy comeback.

The only thing she didn't have to do was say 'Rihanna can't hit those high notes', as it seemed more a dig at Rihanna than building her own self up. Her interview in the attached video didn't portray a nasty attitude though, in my opinion. I'm sure Bebe understands it was poorly phrased and was frustrated it gained traction and portraying her as bitter (which she typically does not seem to act, usually she praises any artist she is discussing). 

54 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

She doesn't rap per se and she's not slow enough for RnB so exactly how would you categorise her? The true definition of hip hop is all over the place, so I wouldn't handle the term too strictly. I call a lot of music in the style of Bebe's to be "urbanised pop" because it doesn't fit too much into any urban genre and has huge pop elements.

I say hip-pop because it's urban pop, like you said.  That being said, she has some interesting work (Atmosphere, Small Doses), but she really needs to find a musical balance that suits her talents. Right now it's falling flat, which is a shame cause I do think she has a nice voice and some good songwriting skills. 

[migamiga 12,102]

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

White women are caught up in just as much racism and sexism as any black woman

That's not really a fair statement. I'm not disregarding the fact that white women don't deal with discrimination but to compare it to a woman of color's experience is ludicrous. Intersectionality plays a huge part in WOC's experience. Again- not saying your experience is invalid, but just noting the two should not be compared.

[Oriane 21,119]

47 minutes ago, F AM E said:

You're not serious right? What you said is probably the most ridiculous comment I've ever read on this site. I truly hope you are under the age of 12 cause if not, I highly suggest you do some research on black history in america. Blacks weren't even allowed to drink from the same fountain as white people so don't even come here with your opera comment. You're clearly not understanding the situation and I hope you learn more about the history of discrimination, civil rights violations, and white-washing in america.

Please dont @ me again with anymore ignorance

Oh yeah sure, I don't know that black people were victims, in my mind all races always had equal rights, I live in the Little Ponies World where everyone is happy and nice.

Spoiler, I know what happened.

If you think it's okay to reject white people and deny them the right to anything just because black people have been treated that way, you just didn't learn anything. You would think that being a victim of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc make the victims more tolerant and aware. Recently, I discovered it doesn't. There's racism against whites, there's sexism against men, there's heterophobia. If you don't want to acknowledge it, fine, stay in your ignorance and keep on believing that treating white people badly will actually make black people's situation better. Maybe after a few more world wars humanity will finally begin to understand, I don't know.

So yes, coming to say that it's fair that white people shouldn't do hip-hop and then whining because black people are denied access to whatever thing that originated in the white culture is stupid. But hey, it's so much easier than trying to be a little smarter and not becoming what you're fighting against.

[migamiga 12,102]

4 minutes ago, Oriane said:

Oh yeah sure, I don't know that black people were victims, in my mind all races always had equal rights, I live in the Little Ponies World where everyone is happy and nice.

Spoiler, I know what happened.

If you think it's okay to reject white people and deny them the right to anything just because black people have been treated that way, you just didn't learn anything. You would think that being a victim of racism, sexism, homophobia, etc make the victims more tolerant and aware. Recently, I discovered it doesn't. There's racism against whites, there's sexism against men, there's heterophobia. If you don't want to acknowledge it, fine, stay in your ignorance and keep on believing that treating white people badly will actually make black people's situation better. Maybe after a few more world wars humanity will finally begin to understand, I don't know.

So yes, coming to say that it's fair that white people shouldn't do hip-hop and then whining because black people are denied access to whatever thing that originated in the white culture is stupid. But hey, it's so much easier than trying to be a little smarter and not becoming what you're fighting against.

Again, you're still not getting it. And if you read my original post carefully, you would've noted that I said I'm not implying white people cannot be a part of hip-hop but a lot of times when they do try to insert themselves, it is with ignorance. A lot of white people give off this attitude that everything in the world belongs to them and they're allowed to do anything when they had a history of denying others the same right. 

The history of white people inserting themselves into black culture has erased their own achievements- Elvis, Miley Cyrus, Kylie Jenner, Iggy Azalea, Macklemore. When white people do what black people have been doing all along, it's praised, it's revolutionary, it's genius, trendy, amazing, etc. But before that it's seen as ratchet or ghetto or trash. Once you understand the history and what it feels like to have your contributions to culture stripped from you, then you can talk. Don't compare it to a white person's struggle because it's completely different.

[StrawberryBlond 14,890]

21 minutes ago, F AM E said:

You're not serious right? What you said is probably the most ridiculous comment I've ever read on this site. I truly hope you are under the age of 12 cause if not, I highly suggest you do some research on black history in america. Blacks weren't even allowed to drink from the same fountain as white people so don't even come here with your opera comment. You're clearly not understanding the situation and I hope you learn more about the history of discrimination, civil rights violations, and white-washing in america.

Please dont @ me again with anymore ignorance

I am shocked that you couldn't get the obvious sarcasm from @Oriane. She was pointing out that by your logic, no one should engage in any culture that is not their own, therefore, black people shouldn't do opera music. Which, clearly, you do not support, so why do you make statements about how people shouldn't steal from other cultures? Surely, if you think that blacks are free to make any kind of music they please, then white people should be allowed the same right? Wouldn't that be...equality? But no? You don't believe that? You think whites should either not indulge in any culture other than their own or, if they're going to, do serious amounts of research that you don't expect any other race to do? That doesn't sound like equality to me. That's special treatment. The worrying part is, you don't realise that. Instead, you treat white people like they're stupid and have no knowledge of racist history. And you wonder where the backlash comes from?

6 minutes ago, IndieKylie said:

I think it's fine for her to speak out on it (or more than 'fine'). That being said, at her show she said 'Rihanna can't hit those high notes' rather than saying 'the high notes in the song were sung by me'. Rexha allowed her demo vocals to be used as background vocals for the song, so it is not as though it was anything intentionally done by Rihanna or her team to spite Bebe.

This is going to open a lot of discussion, which I hope will remain civilized (as others weigh in, I know we'll keep it classy). I think this is too much of a blanket statement. Suggesting that black women are listened to and white women are not is an opinion from your own perspective, which I respect. However, I think plenty of black women (and Latina women and so on) would disagree, saying they feel the words or opinion of a white women are more respected and validated. That's not to say white women still do not experience sexism, but it challenges the added weight of racism and sexism on minority women. In the United States, studies already show white women are paid better than any other racial subgroup (while still being paid less than men). Black and Hispanic women are hit hardest by the wage gap in the United States. The pay gap isn't too different in the UK either. Then you see studies of black girls being seen as 'less innocent' than white girls in  American schools.

I'd agree that Bebe shouldn't be chastised for opening up about possible struggles in the music industry (nor portrayed as a crying jar of mayonnaise ). However, I think openly stating that when "black women complain, people listen to her" is as unfair as belittling Bebe's frustration with getting into hip hop. I think we roam the internet and experience this bubble of 'social justice' where there is heightened visibility for these issues, but it does not always translate into the real world.

Thank you. That was a ridiculous post in this thread. This is GagaDaily. Why people get shocked that we discuss entertainment and music news is beyond me. We can discuss pop culture and show concern for real world issues. Not sure why that was brought up here.

The only thing she didn't have to do was say 'Rihanna can't hit those high notes', as it seemed more a dig at Rihanna than building her own self up. Her interview in the attached video didn't portray a nasty attitude though, in my opinion. I'm sure Bebe understands it was poorly phrased and was frustrated it gained traction and portraying her as bitter (which she typically does not seem to act, usually she praises any artist she is discussing).

I saw it as simply saying that: "We all know Rihanna doesn't sound like that, right? That's because it was me." I see absolutely nothing wrong with what she said. People are just finding issue with it because she's a woman and because of her standing in the industry. What's viewed as bitchiness is mysteriously seen as totally acceptable if you're a man and a legend in the business.

I agree, I perhaps went a bit too far with a blanket statement. But I think I just didn't express it correctly. You'll see in my second response to all this about some of the things I'm referring to. Granted, I'm sure a lot of POC women would scoff at my comments that white women are listened to more. But the thing is...times have changed. I'm sure that viewpoint would have been quite truthful back in the day. But today, being PC is the most important thing and it's been instilled within all white people that POC need to be treated with special care, that they need to listened to and treated well at all costs, or else you'll be called racist. This is a world where a POC can be criticised, no matter how valid that is, and how much evidence there is, and the white accuser will be called racist. If anyone sees a white person being mean to a POC, it is assumed that the white person is racist as opposed to the concept that perhaps they're mean to everyone. When a white person calls out a POC for bad behaviour, it is assumed that they would totally accept that behaviour in a white person (rarely true, in my experience).  I never used to have a problem with giving a negative opinion of any album from a black artist but now, I'm having my subjective musical tastes be cited as racist (just as well I'm an amateur critic and not a professional, or it would be impossible for me to do my job honestly). I've been told in the most condescending way that I've got to listen to POC  and educate myself when that's all I've been doing my entire life. I have a degree in religious studies, for crying out loud! I've had my entire personality assumed just because I'm white. Most people who are accusing me don't know a thing about me. Here's the thing, when you've grown up mostly surrounded by white people, you'll find that people use other ways to single you out, to other you, to discriminate against you. It's not the sunshine and rainbows land that society tells you it is. But I will agree with you that the gender pay gap can have an even bigger impact on POC. However, I always question the validity of any study that suggests that black people are seen as less innocent in schools. These studies are usually full of logical fallacies. It works on the obviously untrue assumption that all teachers are white and doesn't take in the clothes the student wore or overall attitude. Why is prejudice the only assumption? My aunt's a teacher and I can tell you that kids who genuinely show problematic behaviour are the ones that are singled out. As someone who grew up in an all-white school, I can tell you that we were all looked at as potential troublemakers. I still remember horrible experiences I had with teachers who were out and out mean to me for no reason. And I looked like a stereotypical geek and always worked hard, never made a sound and did everything I was told. So, I always take these "teachers unfairly demonise black pupils," with a huge grain of salt because I don't know any schoolkid who isn't demonised these days no matter what their race is.

Well, the thing is, I know that if Bebe were black and trying to claim credit for her work in the same interview, internet commenters would be praising her. I mean look about Azealia Bank's famous interview on Hot 97, where she said horrible things about Iggy Azalea and basically just acted really stuck up and entitled. The comments section is filled with gushing comments about how real she is, how the only people who don't like her are racist, saying racist insults towards Iggy. It's like, where's the classic scenario of "black girl speaks her mind and gets cited as having a bad attitude"? Because I saw majority praise for her. In contrast, look up any Iggy Azalea interview (and she has some really good ones, where she says some really intelligent stuff and brings up amazing points) where she's really sweet and humble and what is the comments like? Stupid white bitch this, igloo australia that...The only white rapper people respect is Eminem, let's face it. The biggest reason I've never made the raps I've written public is because I know people wouldn't take me seriously as a white girl.

[Oriane 21,119]

7 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I am shocked that you couldn't get the obvious sarcasm from @Oriane. She was pointing out that by your logic, no one should engage in any culture that is not their own, therefore, black people shouldn't do opera music. Which, clearly, you do not support, so why do you make statements about how people shouldn't steal from other cultures? Surely, if you think that blacks are free to make any kind of music they please, then white people should be allowed the same right? Wouldn't that be...equality? But no? You don't believe that? You think whites should either not indulge in any culture other than their own or, if they're going to, do serious amounts of research that you don't expect any other race to do? That doesn't sound like equality to me. That's special treatment. The worrying part is, you don't realise that. Instead, you treat white people like they're stupid and have no knowledge of racist history. And you wonder where the backlash comes from?

Thank you ! It's always good to have someone helping and reformulating what you're trying to say.

[migamiga 12,102]

8 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I am shocked that you couldn't get the obvious sarcasm from @Oriane. She was pointing out that by your logic, no one should engage in any culture that is not their own, therefore, black people shouldn't do opera music. Which, clearly, you do not support, so why do you make statements about how people shouldn't steal from other cultures? Surely, if you think that blacks are free to make any kind of music they please, then white people should be allowed the same right? Wouldn't that be...equality? But no? You don't believe that? You think whites should either not indulge in any culture other than their own or, if they're going to, do serious amounts of research that you don't expect any other race to do? That doesn't sound like equality to me. That's special treatment. The worrying part is, you don't realise that. Instead, you treat white people like they're stupid and have no knowledge of racist history. And you wonder where the backlash comes from?

If you're gonna spend this much time on something I said then I suggest you read all my posts in this thread because I never said white people are not allowed in hip hop.

Also if I remember correctly, and judging by how you spell realize- you're british, no? Just curious as on your contact with racial issues in america

[StrawberryBlond 14,890]

43 minutes ago, F AM E said:

That's not really a fair statement. I'm not disregarding the fact that white women don't deal with discrimination but to compare it to a woman of color's experience is ludicrous. Intersectionality plays a huge part in WOC's experience. Again- not saying your experience is invalid, but just noting the two should not be compared.

Well, it's good that you acknowledge that white women can experience discrimination but it all falls apart when you make the assumptions after that. I've always been an intersectional feminist. It's a myth that white women don't believe in this. I have always listened to WOC's opinions but, because I treat everyone equally, I'm going to call them out if they say something that is genuinely misinformed or untruthful. Just like I do to white people. No one is above criticism in my mind and no one should be exempt from further questioning. Read the posts I made before this to get a more rounded idea of what I meant with my original statement. I did clarify that white women experience just as much racism in their own way. It operates differently but it's there. But judging from what you said before, I appreciate that you think any experiences I have are valid. Because I've had POC outright tell me my experience is not the same as theirs even though it's exactly the same. It's weird because I've always found real comfort when I find someone who has the same experience as me, regardless of superficial things like race. So, it's been very disheartening to be shut out by POC whose experience I've matched just because I'm not the same colour as them. That's the disturbing reality of some modern civil rights beliefs. Some people claim they want equality when their words and actions really suggest that they want special treatment and segregation. I preach cooperation, understanding, love and acceptance. Something that I'm finding precious little of in supposed forward-thinking racial theories.

30 minutes ago, F AM E said:

Again, you're still not getting it. And if you read my original post carefully, you would've noted that I said I'm not implying white people cannot be a part of hip-hop but a lot of times when they do try to insert themselves, it is with ignorance. A lot of white people give off this attitude that everything in the world belongs to them and they're allowed to do anything when they had a history of denying others the same right. 

The history of white people inserting themselves into black culture has erased their own achievements- Elvis, Miley Cyrus, Kylie Jenner, Iggy Azalea, Macklemore. When white people do what black people have been doing all along, it's praised, it's revolutionary, it's genius, trendy, amazing, etc. But before that it's seen as ratchet or ghetto or trash. Once you understand the history and what it feels like to have your contributions to culture stripped from you, then you can talk. Don't compare it to a white person's struggle because it's completely different.

Oh, trust me, I've seen arguments like yours all the time. I think I've seen enough of them to get it. It's always the same: "You can't be a part of hip hop...but if you do, you have to complete an absurdly long checklist to be worthy enough." There is no such high standards in any other genre. No other genre is so protective that they deny anyone the rights to make such music unless they do everything they say. Music is one of the most obvious ways one I can indulge in freedom, no matter who you are. You can make music in the privacy of your own house with no one ever knowing. And the end product is yours, it complies to no rules. I don't police art. Lil Wayne did a rock album and he certainly wasn't treated with any respect for that. Beyonce was praised for her venture into country with Daddy Lessons (the CMAs audience had a different reaction, though). But I don't see anyone seriously saying that they inserted themselves into the genre in ignorance. They have every right to make whatever music they please and they do not have to conform to a long list of commandments before they can do it. If they did, it would be called racist.

White people indulging in black music has not erased any black person's achievements. Elvis sometimes brought up how he jumped on a trend started by a black man, for the record. And it amazes me how the same people are always brought up as examples. I've thoroughly debunked them by now. Miley was slammed by the media for being too provocative and insulting black culture, Kylie Jenner was accused of cultural appropriation and Iggy...she was attacked so much that her career has basically ended. Macklemore was praised for his music but he vanished after his debut and is unlikely to make a comeback, as is the case with 99.9% of white rappers, they're one hit wonders by design. I'm fed up of people trying to re-write history. These people were not highly praised, they still aren't and they certainly aren't erasing any black people's achievements. Considering how the amount of black people in the game vastly outnumbers the white people, they get far better reviews and album sales and their history of starting the genre is constantly repeated, I don't think we're in danger of forgetting who started all this. It's just pure fear-mongering to suggest that the genre's being whitewashed. It's not even come close to that. For one thing, labels don't want to take the risk on a white rapper because only one has truly had continued success in all these years and every other one has crashed and burned after one album. Tell me when the rap game is 80% white. In fact, tell me when it's 50% white. Then we'll talk.

12 minutes ago, F AM E said:

If you're gonna spend this much time on something I said then I suggest you read all my posts in this thread because I never said white people are not allowed in hip hop.

Also if I remember correctly, and judging by how you spell realize- you're british, no? Just curious as on your contact with racial issues in america

I've explained above why your thinking is still problematic. It is absurd to expect white people to do extreme research (and then still judge them and assume they haven't done any, most likely) when you don't expect the same of POC when they engage in any culture that is not their own. You're asking white people do extra work that you're not asking POC. Don't you realise what you're saying here?

Yes, I'm British. But I assure you that my research into American racial issues are vast. I know it's not the same situation over there as it is here but that's partly the problem. I think our ways of dealing with race are so much better. And when I hear POC on the internet complaining about white people as if we're all one interchangeable group that all thinks the same, not only is that offensive, but that's not the British experience. White people are different all over the world, POC are treated differently all over the world and to be judged as if the rest of the world mirrors America's situation really irks me.

[migamiga 12,102]

3 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

Yes, I'm British. But I assure you that my research into American racial issues are vast. I know it's not the same situation over there as it is here but that's partly the problem. I think our ways of dealing with race are so much better. And when I hear POC on the internet complaining about white people as if we're all one interchangeable group that all thinks the same, not only is that offensive, but that's not the British experience. White people are different all over the world, POC are treated differently all over the world and to be judged as if the rest of the world mirrors America's situation really irks me.

That's our problem right there. I'm talking about this issue from an american standpoint. When im talking about whites, im talking about american white people (with the exception of iggy even though she's been here for over 10 years) because that's all i know. I don't speak on things I don't know or haven't experienced- that is what really irks me. You can do all the research you want but you don't know about it until you actually see it/live it yourself. As you've stated, racial issues in america are waaaayyyy different than they are in the uk. It wouldn't be ok if i said what it was like being a woman just because i've done research on it. You clearly have your own opinions  and I have mine. We can just leave it at that because there's no point in going back and forth when we have our minds made up.

[YeehawKylie 7,817]

23 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 I think our ways of dealing with race are so much better. And when I hear POC on the internet complaining about white people as if we're all one interchangeable group that all thinks the same, not only is that offensive, but that's not the British experience. White people are different all over the world, POC are treated differently all over the world and to be judged as if the rest of the world mirrors America's situation really irks me.

It seems your way is to pretend racism doesn't exist and, if it does, that it's toward white people. You're from an island that colonized a good portion of of the world that contributed to racial inequality. It may be nice to pretend racism is over, but it's not. Not in the US, the U.K., or many other places...

[StrawberryBlond 14,890]

1 minute ago, F AM E said:

That's our problem right there. I'm talking about this issue from an american standpoint. When im talking about whites, im talking about american white people (with the exception of iggy even though she's been here for over 10 years) because that's all i know. I don't speak on things I don't know or haven't experienced- that is what really irks me. You can do all the research you want but you don't know about it until you actually see it/live it yourself. As you've stated, racial issues in america are waaaayyyy different than they are in the uk. It wouldn't be ok if i said what it was like being a woman just because i've done research on it. You clearly have your own opinions  and I have mine. We can just leave it at that because there's no point in going back and forth when we have our minds made up.

Ah, right, so that's the way it's going to go. You can't stand it that I've made some points that have made you question your beliefs and you don't want to respond, hence why you've only quoted the last part. So you're giving up because you see the argument is no longer going your way. I've shown that I'm not just an ignorant white person, I actually have a brain in my head and have done research. And you can't answer it. So, you're now going to stop talking to me because I'm British and therefore can't fully understand. That sounds a bit...um...xenophobic? Aren't you supposed to be against prejudice? You're not the only American who has treated me like this, by the way. Saying you're British in a debate about race issues in America is the ultimate elephant in the room, it just gets anything you say afterward dismissed. Have you any idea how offensive and hurtful that is? It's funny how you say that white people can do hip hop as long as they research it...and later tell me that a British person can do all the research they want but they'll never fully understand American issues. You're talking yourself in circles. While I'm not here for a man speaking as if he knows more about womanhood than me, I'm fully here for him wanting to discuss it with me once he has applied empathy and is ready to listen. I welcome outside opinion and criticism, always have. After all, how are my theories going to improve if they never get criticised? I'm doing the same for American issues and I'm fully here to discuss it with you because I have the confidence in my opinions and evidence that I can back up what I say but what I've found is that people who don't have the same confidence can't wait to just end the conversation for fear that their theories get shattered.