Morphine Prince 110,022 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 1 minute ago, Simon said: No. Germany and France are politically relevant due to our high population. In Europe borders always changed and culture also evolved. No culture will be gone if Europe federalized. We might grow closer and an exchange of cultures will happen, but no one will be colonized or anything . Poland won't suddenly speak german or Spain won't suddenly speak French. If Europe wants to survive in the future, we need to have one voice. We are united in diversity. Protectionism a la Trump or that even you suggest are dangerous for our European future. One voice but you must keep in mind Eastern Europe's less progressive voice will be part of your country too. I see a potential USA mess could happen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos 3,199 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Just now, Simon said: That's wrong. Elections in France, Netherlands and Germany and maybe even Italy show us that in fact pro-European forces are growing Thankfully. Ich hatte solche Bedenken wegen Frankreich, aber zum Glück hat das Volk richtig gewählt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 4 minutes ago, Luc said: Not at all, there's already total free movement of people in the EU and making the EU a federation wouldn't do much to make migration or cultures integrating more common. I support this, but not as much as I did before. Fact is that people want to live in their individual nation, and even if this is irrational it could have some negative political effects if this were to be pushed through. I also wonder what else the EU would take on as a government: I for example don't want Eastern European conservatives deciding over gay marriage or marihuana legislation in the country I live in.. so I do think that the cultural differences are too big for a real federation like the US to work. Regional autonomy (not per se national) should definitely be a thing, especially when it comes to culture, language, history and But foreign policy, migration, climate change/energy, taxes, healthcare, education, defense, security, intelligence, labour rights and business regulations can all go to or stay at the federal level imo. I agree on that. Especially in foreign issues we need to stand united. I also think that the EUrozone should get one financial minister Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mythos 3,199 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 Also about the culture fading away fear. EU is doing everything possible to preserve every little culture there is, their funding it, nurturing it and keeping it alive, without the EU help, most would already been gone, just fyi. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic 11,922 Posted July 13, 2017 Share Posted July 13, 2017 12 minutes ago, Simon said: That's wrong. Elections in France, Netherlands and Germany and maybe even Italy show us that in fact pro-European forces are growing How does that change the rise in euroscepticism? Just because those countries voted that way it doesn't mean it isn't rising. You can't ignore the Le Pen's just because it doesn't fit the pro-EU agenda. Compare it to 10 years ago...rise. The hardest thing in this world is to live in it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted July 13, 2017 Author Share Posted July 13, 2017 6 minutes ago, Dominic Marc said: How does that change the rise in euroscepticism? Just because those countries voted that way it doesn't mean it isn't rising. You can't ignore the LePenn's just because it doesn't fit the pro-EU agenda. Compare it to 10 years ago...rise. The front national was always there though while macron was completely new and won! And as for Germany, the eurosceptic party will maybe even fail to get into the parliament . it was on the rise but is now on the decline. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominic 11,922 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 9 minutes ago, Simon said: The front national was always there though while macron was completely new and won! And as for Germany, the eurosceptic party will maybe even fail to get into the parliament Yes but again it doesn't take away from the fact that Euroscepticism has increased over the years and as a result it will make a federal Europe even more difficult. I understand you are pro-EU, so am I, but you can't turn a blind eye to that. Like i said the rise in scepticism, plus a lack of scapegoat and a lack of agreement will mean it will not be an easy or realistic goal. The hardest thing in this world is to live in it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
socotra 3,357 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 I feel like it's good for us all to be united in spirit, but practically... local government is better and more effective government. Federalizing virtually the whole continent invites various problems, and what are the real benefits? Will life improve dramatically for people? Will they feel more connected to their government or more removed? I'm guessing the latter would happen if the United States is any indication. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 8 hours ago, Dominic Marc said: Yes but again it doesn't take away from the fact that Euroscepticism has increased over the years and as a result it will make a federal Europe even more difficult. I understand you are pro-EU, so am I, but you can't turn a blind eye to that. Like i said the rise in scepticism, plus a lack of scapegoat and a lack of agreement will mean it will not be an easy or realistic goal. But you shouldn't either put a blind eye that those parties are on a decrease again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
i medici 1,746 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 11 hours ago, Simon said: The vatican was always political Yes i know, and ive always disliked it. I dont get why you quoted me lmao Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 55 minutes ago, i medici said: Yes i know, and ive always disliked it. I dont get why you quoted me lmao chill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 A federal EU a lá USA is the only way forward and hopefully it's gonna happen sooner rather than later.. this half Union state, half independent countries, lots of opt outs etc.. is not working fairly for all the EU states.. I mean if the only things keeping European countries in a union together are economic reasons and the benefits of being in the single market, it'd mean there's absolutely no vision for the future and we might just call it a day already (and btw that's exactly what I think happened with Brexit.. they just didn't care about the European project, they just wanted to have access to the EU single market and take advantage of it whenever they could). One thing I was wondering tho.. what would happen to all the European countries that still have monarchs as head of state ? A centralized government would require one head of state/president/prime minister. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FentyGa 14,340 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 What's a federal community? Why are people caring about the pope? So many questions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erotica 34,931 Posted July 14, 2017 Share Posted July 14, 2017 20 hours ago, Simon said: I'm pretty sure the euro zone gets federalized first Yeah I say no. I would agree on going together with the other Nordic countries, since we're so similar. I don't see how it would work with the Eastern Europe. They're too different and far behind LGBT rights and stuff. Poor is the man whose pleasures depend on the permission of another Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melech 9,900 Posted July 14, 2017 Author Share Posted July 14, 2017 22 minutes ago, Erotica said: Yeah I say no. I would agree on going together with the other Nordic countries, since we're so similar. I don't see how it would work with the Eastern Europe. They're too different and far behind LGBT rights and stuff. It's not like everything is going to be the same. The nationstates just somehow still going to exists. Just they have one common government to deal with foreign stuff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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