Beyonce vs Katy vs Taylor

[BloodyJudas 2,758]

On 6/25/2017 at 0:29 AM, Fernster7 said:

Taylor is the best. 

I love most of Katy's music though she lost me with the Witness era.

And Beyonce is the most talented but most of her music sans her last two albums and a couple of songs is just tragic imo.

You wish , honey Katy is the best and the bestest and WITNESS is a good , solid album. Taylor is just passable , Beyoncé's a legend. But still Katy is my favorite from all these three women 

[LordEnigma 11,313]

Beyoncé OBVIOUSLY.

Then Taylor.

Katy is way deep in the hole.

[LordEnigma 11,313]

3 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I dislike her idea because it's so self-centered: "Drop everything and pay attention to me! Buy my album even though I've given you absolutely no tasters of it to see if it's worth buying!  And there's no way you're trying it out first for free, it's only available through paid channels! I'm so much better than all these lessers who actually do that outdated model of releasing singles before albums and promoting and putting the entire album online to try out for free! I'm above all that!" She thinks she so amazing that she's entitled to just put out an album and people should buy it because they have no other choice if they want to hear her new work. They can't try it out in any way to see if it's for them first. I'm sorry, but this just isn't how the music business works, nor should it become the way. Releasing music is a taster-based business and it removes the artistic integrity when people just blindly buy an album without finding out if it's something they'd like first. I mean, even movies have at least a trailer, usually several! This model has only kept her relevant because it was a new idea for a mainstream artist and she had fantastic PR. It's a kind of marketing strategy that says to people: "Buy this because we tell you to." But now she's pulled off this trick twice, it's debatable if she'll be able to do it a third time. I know I was bored after the first time. Eventually, people will get bored of this idea, when they start realising that she's making music that they don't like, that they're just buying an album blindly because they're told to. You can't deny that her music is getting more mature and experimental. Eventually, her young fans and fans who just like the most mainstream of music are going to start abandoning her and judging by the drop in sales from Beyonce to Lemonade, they're already starting to do that.

But as an artist, creating iconic, good, memorable content should be your top priority. Being famous and successful because of your name alone is superficial and shouldn't be encouraged or considered worthy of celebration. And I'll call her the hardest working artist in the business when she's actually writing all her own music and coming up with entire concepts all by herself, playing instruments live in concert and touring the entire world instead of just America and Europe. She's a hard worker, but there are even better ones. And I never said that music taste wasn't subjective. This is always the same argument every Beyonce fan comes up with when anyone criticises her music. We aren't stupid. It just shows how delusional you are about her when you feel the need to lecture people about subjectivity every time they say something that you disagree with. Generally, when talking about music, everything that comes out of someone's mouth is subjective. We shouldn't need to put a little disclaimer before everything we say when talking about music. So, you think Joanne is way better than Lemonade? Then why aren't you annoyed that Lemonade is getting sales and praise whereas Joanne isn't? I don't care about all the additional stuff Beyonce provides like videos and live performances. They're just bonuses. What matters is the music at the end of the day. And I think I have every right to "hate on her" (though I prefer the term "criticise") because Lemonade only sold around 500k more copies than AP worldwide, yet is considered a major hit whereas AP was called a flop, even by Gaga's own fans. And because of that negativity, Gaga's struggled to get good reviews ever since whereas Beyonce's have only got better. If Beyonce had released Joanne, she would've got praised to high heaven and you know it. Wake up and realise that the media are brainwashing the public into looking at things in a certain way, telling you who and what to like, making you interpret success and failure the way they see fit.

Read what I said above. It's the same argument over and over again with Beyonce fans. They think any outsiders don't understand the concept of subjectivity. On the subject of music, almost everything to do with the quality of music that I say is completely subjective. There should not need to be a disclaimer for this. I don't point out the subjectivity of positive fan opinions. Why should my negative one be called out?

Bigger can be defined by what is being processed and ingrained into people's minds. Beyonce's fans like to believe that everyone knows, cares and loves her recent music when the reality is that most of the world doesn't. No one I know personally even cares about following modern music in general, they just follow their ultimate favourites. Most people are like this. I only know Beyonce's music because I listen to everyone but this is an extremely rare way to be.

Yes, Gaga was used as a replacement, so what? Someone had to replace her. You wouldn't be saying this if it was the other way around. Ew, a replacement! Beyonce's so much better than that! She'd never be so downmarket as to be a replacement! See what I mean by this goddess image? Its infected people's minds.

No one said Gaga was the first to film movies but she's one of the rare singers who have. It's a big deal.

Beyonce has only done the SB once as a headliner. Not the same thing.

Gaga did mostly all arenas, that's why she sold less. Stadium tours are always more expensive by design and Beyonce also overprices her tickets excessively whereas Gaga's have always been very affordable. Honestly, you sound like the way us Gaga fans used to be back when Gaga was slaying and we were at peak cockiness. Surely what happened after that should tell you that pride comes before a fall?

Girl 

This isn't personal omg hahaha

[Fernster7 7,922]

33 minutes ago, BloodyJudas said:

You wish , honey Katy is the best and the bestest and WITNESS is a good , solid album. Taylor is just passable , Beyoncé's a legend. But still Katy is my favorite from all these three women 

Delusional. Katy wishes to be as good of a songwriter as Taylor is, plus 1989 as a whole is better than PRISM and probably Teenage Dream, though those albums has some gems that are better than half of Taylor's discography. 

I agree, Beyonce is a legend but her music is overrated as ****.

[jxckk 959]

The only one that matters in this argument.

Beyonce. 

Both her and Gaga are the performers of our generation tbh. 

Beyonce is better than the other two in terms of singing, technique, dancing, performing in general. I also think her albums are more thought out, it has a whole theme and visual to go with it. You can't deny how much effort and work she puts into her albums, yes she has a good amount of songwriters but you can't take her amazing work ethic away from her. She deserves to be where she is based on her talent alone. 

 

[StrawberryBlond 14,865]

12 minutes ago, Matangi Goddess said:

LOL M.I.A music is different from Beyonce and Gaga who make Pop music! Her music is political and social charged and not meant/designed for mass consumption. She is not given the same platform and MASSIVE industry Push & Finance that these two get so I don't compare them. 

 

Gaga and Beyonce both make music to sell and profit their major record labels so thats why I compare them both but back to Gaga....

 

How come Gaga can't outsell Beyonce tho if she is truly a big phenomena that you all believe her to be? I am not saying Gaga is irrelevant but How is she on the same level as Beyonce who is more talked about, sells more albums, and gains tour sales that gross 3x the amount Gaga has with ArtRave tour?

If she has fans outside LGBT and a diverse fanbase, then How come Gaga still can't achieve the same commercial feats as her contemporary  and competition in the music industry in the last few years since her downfall from ARTPOP?

Yes, they may be different artists but the point is, you seem to be placing a huge amount of importance on sales. If you want to go so far as to have an MIA avatar and a username derived from her work, then you must have a strong support for her artistic beliefs, right? And she's clearly of the type that says that sales don't matter, that impact is better than sales, that making quality music is more important than selling millions. Has none of this got through to you at all? While I understand that we put popstars on a different level to artists who don't want to be mainstream, I certainly fall back on an anti-mainstream theory when my favourite big names under-perform. It's what helped me get through Gaga's downfall. While it would be awesome for her to slay again one day, I realise that there's so much more to an artist's career than that, that you can have impact without showstopping sales, that lesser successes can maintain careers for longer than some of the biggest hitters in some cases. I used to really worry for Gaga's future in the business but not since I truly embraced the ideas that artists like MIA embody. You don't always need a #1 song to be remembered.

Well, Gaga can't sell like Beyonce partly because she doesn't have Beyonce's amazing PR machine. Her label seemed to cease making a big deal out of her post-BTW. Back then, they tried to operate on the same concept Beyonce is using now, the whole "buy this album because we tell you to." That's why it had record-breaking opening sales. But after that, they stopped trying so hard with her, not promoting her, no more aggressive marketing. But Beyonce's team went into overdrive around the time Gaga's team gave up on her. That is why there's such a big discrepancy. You'll notice that BTW, album, singles (and obviously, tour), did so much better than 4 because Gaga's team was dedicated to her in a way that Beyonce's wasn't at the time. Beyonce fans went through a hard time with that album, trying desperately to convince people that she wasn't a flop. Try to think back to that time and apply the same empathy to Gaga today. I don't know what Beyonce is paying her PR machine to gas the public like they do but they're worth their weight in gold. If every artist had them on their side, everyone would have sales like the 80's. Secondly, Gaga has always been a bit weird and her music is a bit on the experimental side. Even Beyonce herself has shown that you struggle to get hits with that. Beyonce is also more stereotypically attractive while Gaga is not (I sometimes think the public is blind on this front) which is another unfortunate reality of whether your music will sell or not when you're a female in our sexist society.

Gaga's on the same level as her however because she has created impact on pop culture and that just can't be forgotten. She's also one of the few popstars who is actually respected by many artists outside her genre who are older than her and legends. She's one of the few popstars who can genuinely sing well and is a real triple threat when it comes to singing, writing and instrumental ability (not to mention dancing and acting into the bargain). She's winning the best awards for her abilities. It is rare for a popstar to get this much praise and respect. That makes her stand out even when she can't sell as well. She's the real deal, she's authentic, she's in it for the music. And you'd be surprised at how many popstars can't even stick around for as long as she has. That's what puts her on the same level. It's not about superficial sales. It's about how many people know you and respect your talent.

I'm surprised that someone growing up in today's world can't understand why Gaga can't achieve the same commercial success as other artists despite a big fanbase. Streaming has changed the industry. The concept of "albums are for the fans" has never been more relevant. People only buy music by their faves these days. Hell, I've done that for the last 10 years. We got fed up of buying albums blindly based on the strength of a lead single only to find out a new artist was all hype. Thanks to streaming and various other platforms like YouTube, we can listen to an entire album before we buy it. Or, if we don't have much money, just keep listening to it for free. Unsurprisingly, with a recession and all, a lot of people plumped for the latter option and why wouldn't they? They buy the albums of their top 3 and then just stream everyone else. Gaga has a lot of casual fans for sure, and that explains her lower numbers. To sell like Beyonce, you need a mixture of diehard fans and mega PR. And after Beyonce, Gaga is the second best-selling female artist of 2016 and this year. So, if that's not being right up there with Beyonce, what is? Taking everything into account, she's the fourth most successful female artist of the moment, once you factor in Taylor and Adele. Even Rihanna and Katy have fallen in sales. It's hard to be a female artist right now but Gaga is holding on well. And remember that it's hard for everyone right now. We're halfway through the year and the only big selling album is by Ed Sheeran. Last year, it was Beyonce and Drake. The year before, it was Adele. The year before, it was Taylor. These days, we only get one big seller per year and 2 if we're lucky. Everyone else has to make do with 1 million copies worldwide as a major achievement. Considering Gaga has sold nearly 1.4 million copies of Joanne worldwide and currently holds the title of the biggest selling female album this year (despite her album being released last year), exactly how is she failing?

[Thomas P 18,479]

1 hour ago, StrawberryBlond said:

But I just said some people don't judge being "big" with sales. So, why are you bringing up sales? You are clearly stuck on superficiality. How ironic considering that you're an M.I.A fan.

Yes, plenty of singers have acted in movies...usually in the form of cameo roles and occasional supporting roles. But the amount of artists who have been offered the lead role in a movie are rare. Madonna, Cher and J.Lo are the only singers who have really made just as much a career out of movies that they have out of singing. Most other singers get roles in bad movies that end in them being panned and winning Razzies (Liza Minnelli, Mariah, Britney, J.Lo, everything Madonna's been in), most of them get a cameo/side role at best and the few who are given the chance to be the lead role in a movie usually don't come off very well (Mariah, Britney, Xtina), so they decide that it was a once-off mistake and never do it again. Gaga is being taken much more seriously than they were. Regardless of how you think she got that Golden Globe, how many other singers have gone on to win a Golden Globe for acting? I bet you wouldn't have said Beyonce bought a GG if she won. And what proof do you have that Beyonce didn't pay for any awards? I bet when Kanye exposed her for saying that she wouldn't turn up to the MTV awards unless she knew for sure she was winning video of the year, you thought he was just being his usual crazy self, right?

Gaga does have fans outside the LGBT community. Myself and many other other people I know like her music and respect her talent despite not being LGBT. I even know guys who are metal-heads who like her. You'll even find some of them on this very forum. Gaga's finally getting respected for her talent now in a way that she never was before thanks to the Sound of Music medley, the SB anthem, C2C and the SB headlining gig. What she can't get in sales, she's made up for in respect. And Beyonce's name is brought up in every moment in life? Did you seriously read that through before posting it?

I thought I already made it clear earlier on that I'm not here for people doubting my intelligence. No matter how much I've disliked anyone on this forum, I've never called anyone stupid. Considering I've been very civil to you before, this is very unprecedented. Whatever your opinion about Beyonce, don't try to pretend that my opinion isn't based on research and logic.

I actually think you're quite intelligent but some of the things you were saying were just completely illogical. I don't want to fight though, and I respect you don't like bey so I'm good if you're good 

EDIT and I actually do apologize if I offended you.

[StrawberryBlond 14,865]

Just now, Thomas P said:

I actually think you're quite intelligent but some of the things you were saying were just completely illogical. I don't want to fight though, and I respect you don't like bey so I'm good if you're good 

What was illogical? I've looked through it all and from a fan's perspective, yes, some of the things I said may be written off as speculation in their eyes but come on. You don't seriously think there's some connection to saying that she decided to give on making proper singles because she realised with 4 that her days of massive hit singles were behind her and she wanted a way to release music without being called a flop if the singles didn't do well? And that she came up with surprise releasing albums to make her stand out from the crowd and make herself appear superior, therefore encouraging people to buy the album of a quality artist? I mean, she even used reverse psychology on Twitter by tweeting shortly after Beyonce's release: "I probably won't make that much money from this. Oh well." That tweet still makes me make a face to this day. She knew what she was doing and kept on doing it. Her release idea is a big money spinner and she loves it. This isn't for the love of music, it's for the love of money. You're free to like her music all you want but at least realise that this is a business for Beyonce, she loves making money and knows big sales will turn her into the legend she's always wanted to be.

[Thomas P 18,479]

4 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

What was illogical? I've looked through it all and from a fan's perspective, yes, some of the things I said may be written off as speculation in their eyes but come on. You don't seriously think there's some connection to saying that she decided to give on making proper singles because she realised with 4 that her days of massive hit singles were behind her and she wanted a way to release music without being called a flop if the singles didn't do well? And that she came up with surprise releasing albums to make her stand out from the crowd and make herself appear superior, therefore encouraging people to buy the album of a quality artist? I mean, she even used reverse psychology on Twitter by tweeting shortly after Beyonce's release: "I probably won't make that much money from this. Oh well." That tweet still makes me make a face to this day. She knew what she was doing and kept on doing it. Her release idea is a big money spinner and she loves it. This isn't for the love of music, it's for the love of money. You're free to like her music all you want but at least realise that this is a business for Beyonce, she loves making money and knows big sales will turn her into the legend she's always wanted to be.

I agreed with that part. I was talking more about you saying that bey fans defend beys music as subjective if one doesn't like it, but you said that this was a false point and essentially said the only reason people like it is because they're brainwashed and not because maybe they actually enjoy it. If you don't like it I get that and respect that, doesn't effect my life, but don't tell me I'm brainwashed for enjoying some of my favourite music.

[StrawberryBlond 14,865]

4 minutes ago, Thomas P said:

I agreed with that part. I was talking more about you saying that bey fans defend beys music as subjective if one doesn't like it, but you said that this was a false point and essentially said the only reason people like it is because they're brainwashed and not because maybe they actually enjoy it. If you don't like it I get that and respect that, doesn't effect my life, but don't tell me I'm brainwashed for enjoying some of my favourite music.

Well, you should have highlighted the part that you had a problem with and not quoted my entire post, thereby suggesting the entire thing was illogical. No, that wasn't what I was trying to say. I was saying that no one steps in to bring up subjectivity when they see a positive comment about her music but a negative comment prompts lots of cries of "don't you know what subjectivity is?" by disgruntled fans. It's a double standard. It's why the Beyhive doesn't have the best of reputations. I've actually heard some people say that they remind them of the way Gaga fans used to be, but even worse. At least Gaga fans became humble after her downfall but Beyonce fans have got smug. And that smugness just makes other people want to see you and your fave fail. So, if you want a tip for getting along better with other fanbases, stop banging on about the definition and importance of subjectivity whenever someone criticises her music. You can ask them why they think the way they do and attempt to engage with them intellectually but don't pull up the subjectivity card just because you can't take an opposing opinion.

Now, about the brainwashing thing. I don't genuinely think that all her fans are mindless sheep but you can't deny that some of them have blind fan bias and others have got carried away with her big resurgence. It's a common thing to praise something if everyone else is and want your fave's music to be amazing every time. I've done it myself and had to amend things over time and admit I tried to convince myself of something that I wanted to believe. I still have a hard time in trying decipher what her fans see in the likes of what I consider to be utter trash like Sorry and Formation. Even more baffled as to what professional critics saw in them. I think there's a lot to be said of hype and hysteria. And I, albeit controversially, think she may be part of the paid reviews club. I just struggle to understand how I can see flaws in her work that a professional critic with a degree is mysteriously glossing over. Certain publications also tell their reviewers what to say to reflect the reader demographic, public opinion and the slant of the publication in general. Which is a fancy way of saying: "If the public like the artist right now, give them a positive review and vice versa." Reviewers also bounce off each other and share opinions, which is why it's rare to see an array of critic opinions on an album, they're all roughly the same. It all makes for a combination that can result in fans thinking far higher of an album because the critics say its top quality.

[Lanius 1,055]

Taylor and Katy>>>

 

I like Beyonce in DC and Her earlier albums but ever since 2013 she's came off as stuck up

[Lanius 1,055]

@StrawberryBlond How do you feel about Beyonce getting snubbed at the Grammys? It's kinda interesting how everybody worships her yet she couldn't beat Adele. Adele hasn't promoted 25 since early 2016 while Beyonce has been through hoops and hurtles to appeal to Grammy voters yet she still couldn't win. I think that's kinda telling about how people view her in the industry and not everybody believes in the whole "Queen B" Agenda.

[dit 46,473]

Taylor paints a portrait with her lyrics (most of the time). She is an incredible song writer tbh.

Beyonce has the best live performance skills out of almost all the main pop girls and she is not overrated in her live skills. Anyone who says that is sort of deaf and blind. She is just on point almost ALL the damn time which is incredible.

Katy...I like her a lot more as a person this era but musically I struggle to appreciate almost anything of hers.

[Thomas P 18,479]

3 minutes ago, Laatashaa said:

@StrawberryBlond How do you feel about Beyonce getting snubbed at the Grammys? It's kinda interesting how everybody worships her yet she couldn't beat Adele. Adele hasn't promoted 25 since early 2016 while Beyonce has been through hoops and hurtles to appeal to Grammy voters yet she still couldn't win. I think that's kinda telling about how people view her in the industry and not everybody believes in the whole "Queen B" Agenda.

Calm down. Bey has 22 Grammys.

[Lanius 1,055]

Just now, Thomas P said:

Calm down. Bey has 22 Grammys.

Out of those 22 Grammy how many of them are AOTY and not in R&B Categories that don't exist anymore?