Bad setlist openers/closers?

[Killa 17,667]

Sorry but

Ride ride pony ride ride with an entrance in a mechanical horse by a castle

i dont like that tour as much as the next gay here but girl, like guuuuuurllll

and dance in the dark

like how much more iconic, ground breaking earth shaking

you'll know the lyrics of any gaga song after repetition of the chorus anyway

[Duella Dvil 10,583]

38 minutes ago, Jake Deyton said:

 I imagine having to wait over half and hour for a hit record from an artist who has so many during the ARTRAVE would've been very annoying for a casual fan.

"Then grab a glowstick and GTFO"

Gaga didn't come to sing the hits she came to perform her album.

She clearly has a vision for the ALBUM to be performed live, almost every song from every record is performed on it's tour.

TMB all 8 were performed

BTWB 16 of BTW we're performed at every date, The queen was performed at some dates making it 17

ArtRave had everything then minor cuts were made then major, then they were readded. So ultimately the only song not very performed was Fashion!

 

She obviously only sprinkles in the hits for casual fans. Even at Coachella and Roseland she still did HELLA album tracks. Also an Encore is NOT the closer, BTWB was closed with Scheiße, ArtRave with Swine. VERY INTENSE songs to close with.

Encores are almost ALWAYS emotional or togetherness songs. Halo closed out 2 of Bey's tours. They are crowd pleasers, you want to fill the crowd with positive vibes not make it a popularity contest otherwise Gaga would always close with Poker Face/Bad Romance.

[AndrewGr 6,022]

45 minutes ago, Jake Deyton said:

It's more of an attitude those songs create. If you're hyped after the first song you're likely to enjoy the concert more as a whole. One of the first rules of musical theatre. 

I think you are confusing "being hyped and excited" over a song and "recognise the song because it was a hit single". DITD hyped every single person in the Monster Ball crowd without being a single or recognised by the GP.

It's also weird that you have a musical theatre background considering that the "hits" in the musicals are almost never the opening/closing numbers. Yes the first song has to be good and catchy but not THE hit of the show. 

[Lona Delery 7,216]

Gaga's openers were perfect so far, I wouldnt want her to ruin her openings just for the sake of having a hit first

[Jake D 576]

28 minutes ago, AndrewGr said:

I think you are confusing "being hyped and excited" over a song and "recognise the song because it was a hit single". DITD hyped every single person in the Monster Ball crowd without being a single or recognised by the GP.

It's also weird that you have a musical theatre background considering that the "hits" in the musicals are almost never the opening/closing numbers. Yes the first song has to be good and catchy but not THE hit of the show. 

I didn't say THE hit. I said A hit. Openers and closers of musicals are usually huge numbers. Act closers are usually the climax of the show so my point stands. 

[FentyGa 14,340]

1 hour ago, Jake Deyton said:

Does anyone else think that Gaga doesn't have a strong sense of showmanship concerning her tour openers and closers (and somewhat setlists in general)?

No one tours better than Gaga and think all three arena tours have been incredible but I'm almost always annoyed at her opening and closing selections. 

For instane: 

The Monster Ball opened with Dance in the Dark—which was AMAZING and my personal favorite tour opener—but it wasn't a single which meant than many spectators had not heard the record before or had only heard it a handful of times.

Girl, it was. The 4th and last single.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fame_Monster

[AndrewGr 6,022]

1 hour ago, Jake Deyton said:

I didn't say THE hit. I said A hit. Openers and closers of musicals are usually huge numbers. Act closers are usually the climax of the show so my point stands. 

It still doesn't. MTN and Gypsy were encores. Technically the closing numbers of artRAVE and BTWBall were Swine and Scheiße, which were pretty huge, with choreo e.t.c. Also DITD, Highway Unicorn, ARTPOP were also huge numbers as opening acts. 

[NIghtmareElm 2,606]

Well concerts are generally meant for hardcore fans that actually listen to the album.  They don't just come to listen to the singles.  They want to hear the songs that aren't singles and that may not even be a single.  

[EdgeofTeeth 1,934]

ARTPOP opening the artRave was absolutely epic, Gaga rose out of the floor and the song was like a hypnotic trance before exploding into the unrelenting slayage of G.U.Y.  Probably the most epic moment of my life.

[Whispering 18,865]

1 hour ago, Jake Deyton said:

I didn't say THE hit. I said A hit. Openers and closers of musicals are usually huge numbers. Act closers are usually the climax of the show so my point stands. 

Musicals often start with a song to set the scene, and that isn't necessarily a huge number. The story is more important than "wowing" the audience. Sometimes musicals end with a quiet, reflective song or just a couple of cast members singing a song. Not every musical is from Disney!  Also, the biggest number usually comes right before intermission. So, your point really doesn't work.

Like musicals, artists are different and eras are different. Not every artist is a "Disney type" artist.  

[Jake D 576]

39 minutes ago, Whispering said:

Musicals often start with a song to set the scene, and that isn't necessarily a huge number. The story is more important than "wowing" the audience. Sometimes musicals end with a quiet, reflective song or just a couple of cast members singing a song. Not every musical is from Disney!  Also, the biggest number usually comes right before intermission. So, your point really doesn't work.

Like musicals, artists are different and eras are different. Not every artist is a "Disney type" artist.  

I'm currently enrolled in MT at Tisch School of the Arts at NYU (where Gaga went to school) so I don't need the info lol

Unless you're also going to a top musical theatre program or working in the field I doubt you know more musical material than I do. Yes, there are exceptions but most shows open and close with big ensemble numbers. Especially most mainstream musicals and Gaga is a very mainstream musician sonically and visually even if she'd resist that label. 

While I think the metaphor is useful here because there are many similarities, I will admit the musical metaphor isn't perfect because musicals are already for a fairly niche market and Gaga is one of the biggest pop stars in the world. However most musicals (especially mainstream Bway shows which would be the musical equivalent of a pop star concert) end with large, often recognizable ensemble songs. Ending Act 1 is still ending something hence the importance of having a large act 1 closer which is almost a given in musical theatre.

I didn't use the musical comparison saying Gaga should copy musical theatre structure, rather the core of the idea is strong. Opening and closing songs (including closing act 1 and opening act 2) are often critical in gaining an audience's attention and cementing their opinion. You are right that musicals have more leeway here in the type of music they present because people go to musicals for a myriad of reasons so sometimes (though infrequently on Bway) somber, slower, and less flashy songs can close a show  but people—especially casual fans—don't come to concerts for that experience. They come to concerts to have a good time and dance, cementing the idea of big hits to bookend the show. 

[Whispering 18,865]

55 minutes ago, Jake Deyton said:

I'm currently enrolled in MT at Tisch School of the Arts at NYU (where Gaga went to school) so I don't need the info lol

Unless you're also going to a top musical theatre program or working in the field I doubt you know more musical material than I do. Yes, there are exceptions but most shows open and close with big ensemble numbers. Especially most mainstream musicals and Gaga is a very mainstream musician sonically and visually even if she'd resist that label. 

While I think the metaphor is useful here because there are many similarities, I will admit the musical metaphor isn't perfect because musicals are already for a fairly niche market and Gaga is one of the biggest pop stars in the world. However most musicals (especially mainstream Bway shows which would be the musical equivalent of a pop star concert) end with large, often recognizable ensemble songs. Ending Act 1 is still ending something hence the importance of having a large act 1 closer which is almost a given in musical theatre.

I didn't use the musical comparison saying Gaga should copy musical theatre structure, rather the core of the idea is strong. Opening and closing songs (including closing act 1 and opening act 2) are often critical in gaining an audience's attention and cementing their opinion. You are right that musicals have more leeway here in the type of music they present because people go to musicals for a myriad of reasons so sometimes (though infrequently on Bway) somber, slower, and less flashy songs can close a show  but people—especially casual fans—don't come to concerts for that experience. They come to concerts to have a good time and dance, cementing the idea of big hits to bookend the show. 

There are hundreds to choose from, but off the top of my head...Wicked ends with For Good. Rent starts off with just Roger and Mark. Aida starts and ends with just Amneris singing. Beautiful starts and ends with just the Carol King character. Music Man starts out with that song on the train. (I'm sure I could come up with many more if I did research or had a list in front of me  )

Eh, concert goers are like others who seek other forms of entertainment...varied in their motivations and expectations. I go see artists that I know their music, especially their latest album. Concerts cost too much and usually involve travel and possibly an overnight stay. I'm not going just "to dance and have a good time". I can do that at the local club for a fraction of the cost of going to a concert of a major artist. Plus, Gaga hasn't closed with "slow, somber" songs anyway. 

Just like shows on Broadway, all artists aren't going to present the same artistic vision. Some artist are formulatic and rather basic. Some aren't...thankfully for those of us looking for more! 

[Jake D 576]

2 hours ago, Whispering said:

There are hundreds to choose from, but off the top of my head...Wicked ends with For Good. Rent starts off with just Roger and Mark. Aida starts and ends with just Amneris singing. Beautiful starts and ends with just the Carol King character. Music Man starts out with that song on the train. (I'm sure I could come up with many more if I did research or had a list in front of me  )

Eh, concert goers are like others who seek other forms of entertainment...varied in their motivations and expectations. I go see artists that I know their music, especially their latest album. Concerts cost too much and usually involve travel and possibly an overnight stay. I'm not going just "to dance and have a good time". I can do that at the local club for a fraction of the cost of going to a concert of a major artist. Plus, Gaga hasn't closed with "slow, somber" songs anyway. 

Just like shows on Broadway, all artists aren't going to present the same artistic vision. Some artist are formulatic and rather basic. Some aren't...thankfully for those of us looking for more! 

Wicked doesn't close with For Good it ends reprising the first song "No One Mourns the Wicked" which is a big ensemble number. But yes, like I said, there are exceptions to every rule but far FAR more musicals follow the pattern than the exception making it a valid example. 

And idk I feel like a Gaga forum wasn't the best place to ask this question. Your and my Gaga concert experience is so vastly different than the average person at her show. I think people here also forget that Gaga is an extremely mainstream pop star and likely the majority of people in attendance at her concerts are not hardcore monsters but rather casual fans there to see her perform Just Dance, Born This Way, Million Reasons, Bad Romance etc. 

I think she should absolutely still perform the record she's promoting but I think it just makes more sense to open and close on obvious highs that the entire audience will enjoy. As fans we're going to be enthralled at any order the set list is in. By starting and ending with a hit single everyone will be able to enjoy those special moments equally. 

[Dutch 91,450]

I hope she will open the JWT like she openend the Super Bowl and Coachella. Give me that mix that I love. 

Sidenote: all her openers were iconic. And Gypsy was an amazing closer.

[Irrelevant 20,282]

7 hours ago, Jake Deyton said:

Gypsy—both amazing songs but neither were singles nor high energy.