May To Seek Coalition After Shock Hung Parliment Result

[Petie Estie 5,741]

4 minutes ago, StJames said:

You get it! I'd imagine america would be bankrupt if they gave out the type of benefits we give. It's simply not sustainable for this country give the increasing population and up until now the free roam immigration. That's another thing immegrants into the Uk get the same benefits with no previous investment from taxes. Everyone gets the same. I think immegration is fantastic it makes the population a melting pot of cultures etc but I don't agree with a family leaving their country for a better life in the Uk to live off benefits and a free house (there are a million documentries on this topic in particular worth watching)  

okay the UK is crazy (crazy good?) why does nobody talk about this or why am i just now learning it?? immigration looks to be really easy and you can claim all kind of benefits before you're a citizen if you pass a test that looks to be not too hard? lol this is what I'm talking about if anyone else reads this https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/coming-from-abroad-and-claiming-benefits-the-habitual-residence-test/the-habitual-residence-test-an-introduction/what-is-the-habitual-residence-test/

It sounds good to me tbh I love this policy, immigration is a huge driver of an economy - more people = more workers = more tax money - is the thought behind that from what I've read. Lots of businesses in the US are immigrant owned so they even create jobs etc. 

In general - although i can see how theoretically welfare programs could be a drag if abused habitually, I don't believe the basic concept that people who can work don't work because of free subsidies. Or that people get lazier. There are other ways to encourage a healthy economy while having subsidies for those in need. I think my main problem is blaming poor people for their problems, it makes me nervous it's gonna be a slippery slope to america's republicans wanting to rely on capitalism for everything and screw the poor. When the conversation turns to how people are taking advantage of social programs - it just gets ugly. If there's an issue, and I'd need really hard evidence, you need to figure out rules to make sure people aren't taking advantage while still expanding help to those using it appropriately. I hate when it's used as a reason to diminish social programs entirely. 

Documentaries on American politics have a history of being disproportionately misleading conservative propaganda so I am wary of believing them lol. 

But anyway I would welcome an argument that certain programs can't be done because it's simply not feasible economically with higher taxes necessary - but saying people are taking advantage and using that as a reason for anything makes me uncomfortable. 

[StJames 376]

2 minutes ago, Dominic Marc said:

I dont really think this is entirely accurate

Non-EU folk are not eligible for benefits (Jobseekers etc) and EU citizens typically have to jump through several hoops and the 'myth' that immigrants are 'taking our benefits' has been studied and results show it's just not that true.

There has been a lot of evidence that demonstrates the benefit system does give large sums of money to immegrants, while there are stipulations in place those coming with children places them at a higher priority which gives them the housing and benefits. I'm not suggesting this happens consistently but it is an issue raised during Brexit talks (as well as the bull about 'immegrants are taking all our jobs'

[Petie Estie 5,741]

13 minutes ago, Dominic Marc said:

 

It will be a confidence/supply deal. So they will support the Tories legislation and the Tories will rely on the DUP to pass legislation. Unless they opt for a vote-by-vote arrangement which would cause a lot of problems in the conservative party.

The DUP will also expect something in return for their support. Probably a number of their policies being included in the Queens Speech. 

The DUP themselves are pro-Brexit but they did not call for a hard-brexit so that will be a big clash with Conservatives as well as their desire to keep the Triple Lock. 

Either way it's not good having 10 MPs in parliament who are outwardly anti-gay and anti-abortion. In no way is that good. It won't last though, expect a vote of no confidence within the year. 

I'm just hoping the extreme hate-filled policies of the DUP aren't the ones that are compromise-able. Thinking they'd leave those out since there's no support for them otherwise and work on some more "soft" Brexit deals. Since...I think they are less for a "hard" brexit deal. But either way it's only 10 votes how much sway can they have?? everything is terrible lol I hate this uncertainty. 

[StJames 376]

7 minutes ago, Dominic Marc said:

I dont really think this is entirely accurate

Non-EU folk are not eligible for benefits (Jobseekers etc) and EU citizens typically have to jump through several hoops and the 'myth' that immigrants are 'taking our benefits' has been studied and results show it's just not that true.

SOrry just to correct myself I didn't make it clear I meant movement within the EU and their access to Uk benefit schemes

[Dominic 11,922]

1 minute ago, StJames said:

SOrry just to correct myself I didn't make it clear I meant movement within the EU and their access to Uk benefit schemes

Gotcha  

Although EEA members don't get handed benefits on arrival either. They are entitled to NHS and Education but to gain access to the public fund a non-working EU migrant would have to jump quite a few hoops.

Also there's considerable argument that they actually pay more in tax than they receive in benefit. Probably because, more recently, the EU folk entering the UK are younger and usually educated therefore don't need benefit. However it's difficult to confirm these figures which imo is how the right have been able propagate the 'taking our jobs, benefits' line. 

Side note: You're one of the first Tory voters I've spoken to who seems to understand politics and what they are voting for. Restoring my faith a little 

[StJames 376]

4 minutes ago, Dominic Marc said:

Gotcha  

Although EEA members don't get handed benefits on arrival either. They are entitled to NHS and Education but to gain access to the public fund a non-working EU migrant would have to jump quite a few hoops.

Also there's considerable argument that they actually pay more in tax than they receive in benefit. Probably because, more recently, the EU folk entering the UK are younger and usually educated therefore don't need benefit. However it's difficult to confirm these figures which imo is how the right have been able propagate the 'taking our jobs, benefits' line. 

Side note: You're one of the first Tory voters I've spoken to who seems to understand politics and what they are voting for. Restoring my faith a little 

haha thanks, I hope I havnt offended anyone as that's not my intention in the slightest. While I have voted tories and they are the closest party to many of my own beliefs and values I have a very liberal mindset in regards to the plight of the struggles people face and as I said before the comments I made are of the minority that effect the system. I'm not blind to the fact people need additional help and support and i 100% don't agree with all of the Tory legislation at all! I think it's incredible that this country can offer that! 

[Dominic 11,922]

Just now, StJames said:

haha thanks, I hope I havnt offended anyone as that's not my intention in the slightest. While I have voted tories and they are the closest party to many of my own beliefs and values I have a very liberal mindset in regards to the plight of the struggles people face and as I said before the comments I made are of the minority that effect the system. I'm not blind to the fact people need additional help and support and i 100% don't agree with all of the Tory legislation at all! I think it's incredible that this country can offer that! 

Nah you've not offended anyone! Tory voters will be vilified for the next few weeks (or years depending how the DUP goes down) and it's not fair. People had genuine reasons for voting Tory so it's not fair to dismiss those and brand each one ignorant or whatnot.

Although lbr a majority did just read the Daily Mail and get their opinions from there

Either way were a very divided nation; Young/Old, Labour/Tory, Rich/Poor, Leave/Remain. I honestly don't think the UK could handle another election so soon.

[StJames 376]

I think we need to get Brexit out the way in order to move forward.  I think even from a Tory perspective we're pretty much walking in partially blind to what's going on let alone the current upheaval. But in turn I guess we can't give deffinate answers (only aims) as we don't know how EU will move on our deal.

[Slayer 9,227]

3 hours ago, StJames said:

For me it is. With labour in power I pay 50% tax or so in corbyn's 5% top tier tax bracket. 

You're pretty much paying that already...

[Slayer 9,227]

11 minutes ago, StJames said:

I think we need to get Brexit out the way in order to move forward.  I think even from a Tory perspective we're pretty much walking in partially blind to what's going on let alone the current upheaval. But in turn I guess we can't give deffinate answers (only aims) as we don't know how EU will move on our deal.

Lol we can't just "get it out of the way"... it's going to have ramifications on our nation for decades.

[StJames 376]

10 minutes ago, Slayer said:

Lol we can't just "get it out of the way"... it's going to have ramifications on our nation for decades.

I wasn't suggesting it was a simple or easy job to do. My choice of syntax wasn't designed to present the gravity of the exit

[StJames 376]

14 minutes ago, Slayer said:

Lol we can't just "get it out of the way"... it's going to have ramifications on our nation for decades.

I also voted to remain

[Slayer 9,227]

5 minutes ago, StJames said:

I wasn't suggesting it was a simple or easy job to do. My choice of syntax wasn't designed to present the gravity of the exit

Okay, I see.

[StrawberryBlond 15,690]

I think a lot of things that the people are saying about Theresa are really out of order. Saying that she called this election arrogantly believing she'd sail through and that she wanted it to be like a coronation. I think they've got her all wrong. She needed to do this because the people didn't elect her so she had to ensure that they had a party in power that they voted for. I think her reasoning is all very sound. She seems like one of the few politicians out there who speaks honestly and actually does things. I don't care what party she's from. I vote for the people speaking sense and the Conservatives are the biggest party who is doing that right now. Yes, the rape clause is problematic but no party has a list of policies I 100% agree with. The conservatives are the ones that seem to know what they're doing in regards to policing and immigration issues which are the biggest problems facing the UK right now. Corbyn made me nervous as hell hearing what he was saying about how these issues would be dealt with. He just seems to have no strength.

Probably the only positive thing that came out of this election was that the SNP suffered a really bad night and lost 21 seats. This is a big deal for No supporters like me. We are sick to the back teeth of this party focusing completely on independence and letting the important issues fall by the weyside. They've only been quiet about independence recently for tactical reasons. They just need another excuse to get started on it again. Nicola said that they result will make them reflect and they're going to listen to voters. For their sake, I hope they mean that. We do not want another divisive referendum. Don't let the high numbers of SNP support fool you. Unless it's a referendum, a lot of those people are voting just to ensure that attention is paid to Scottish issues and that there are Scottish voices in parliament. To suggest that everyone who votes SNP supports independence is very short-sighted, hence the 2014 result. Nicola tries to pretend that the SNP winning 56/59 seats last time = support for independence but if that was case, how come the majority voted no just three years ago? This election really put them in their place, so for that reason, I'm glad we had this election.

[xoxo Craig 55,649]

4 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

I think a lot of things that the people are saying about Theresa are really out of order. Saying that she called this election arrogantly believing she'd sail through and that she wanted it to be like a coronation. I think they've got her all wrong. She needed to do this because the people didn't elect her so she had to ensure that they had a party in power that they voted for. I think her reasoning is all very sound. She seems like one of the few politicians out there who speaks honestly and actually does things. I don't care what party she's from. I vote for the people speaking sense and the Conservatives are the biggest party who is doing that right now. Yes, the rape clause is problematic but no party has a list of policies I 100% agree with. The conservatives are the ones that seem to know what they're doing in regards to policing and immigration issues which are the biggest problems facing the UK right now. Corbyn made me nervous as hell hearing what he was saying about how these issues would be dealt with. He just seems to have no strength.

Probably the only positive thing that came out of this election was that the SNP suffered a really bad night and lost 21 seats. This is a big deal for No supporters like me. We are sick to the back teeth of this party focusing completely on independence and letting the important issues fall by the weyside. They've only been quiet about independence recently for tactical reasons. They just need another excuse to get started on it again. Nicola said that they result will make them reflect and they're going to listen to voters. For their sake, I hope they mean that. We do not want another divisive referendum. Don't let the high numbers of SNP support fool you. Unless it's a referendum, a lot of those people are voting just to ensure that attention is paid to Scottish issues and that there are Scottish voices in parliament. To suggest that everyone who votes SNP supports independence is very short-sighted, hence the 2014 result. Nicola tries to pretend that the SNP winning 56/59 seats last time = support for independence but if that was case, how come the majority voted no just three years ago? This election really put them in their place, so for that reason, I'm glad we had this election.

Point 1- She did though. She called it because she thought she win by a large majority giving her the ability to do what the hell she wants to do in parliment. NO WAY ON THIS EARTH is Theresa May a 'Honnest' politician. Have you heard Liar Liar??  She'd much rather spend money of arms trades in Saudi Arabia and Syria rather than the NHS (which she wants privatised, similar to the US). And other things, you should listen to that song. 

Point 2- Corbyn was put through hell by the British media (ask @Dominic Marc) but he still did miles better than the last election. His campaign was 10000x better than the Tories. He is strong, and is getting stronger. Mrs. May says she is strong and stable, but she has crumbled and very weak.

 

Point 3 - You fail to realise that its already been voted for a IndyRef2 in the Scottish Parliment and therefore its part of constiutional law. Therefore there is already a mandate for it to happen, all Nicola needs to do is negotiate when would be the best time. And to quote Mrs. May "Now is not the time".  The SNP won the election in Scotland, their 2nd best result ever. Yes, its short from the 56/59 MPs that were elected in 2015. All that means is that winning a 2nd refferendum, right now, would be very difficult. However, last Saturday there was an independence march in Glasgow where more than 25,000 people turned up to make their voice heard. The election wasnt about Independence though, so the vote in Scotland doesnt actually change much tbh. Once we get a clearer picture of what Brexit means for Scotland and the rest of the UK, that is when the time is right. The people should have a right to decide the future of Scotland - if we follow the Tory hard brexit or if we go on own own path. 

The positive thing that came out of this election is really Corbyn and the gain in confidence in the Labour Party, the downfall of the 'strong and stable leadership' of Theresa May and the exposure of who Theresa May really is when she went to the DUP for backing in government. 

I am certain, and hopeful that a 2nd Independence Refferendum will get carried out in 2019. Because then we know what mess we are in and I think the people of Scotland will not be idiots and we will take our own path away from the rest of the UK. The Union is a mess, and if Theresa May and the DUP coalition government gets accpeted, I dont want to be a part of this country. 

 

The Tories make poor people even poorer and force them further into poverty while keeping the wealthy even richer. They are now even further right than before, taking over from UKIP. If you agree with facisim, austerity, racism, xeophobia ect, then you are more than welcome. But it makes you on par to Donald Trump supporters. Delusional. I hope you wake up one day and see things for what they are.