Miley distances herself from Hip-Hop

[Dorothy Gale 7,575]

 

[PunkTheFunk 124,467]

43 minutes ago, StrawberryBlond said:

@PunkTheFunk

I suggest you watch this video for a brilliant look at why cultural appropriation is nonsense. And it was made by an Asian-American (some people in the comments assumed she was white, which is quite ironic):

She has some valid points, but I wouldn't go so far as to say all cultural appropriation is nonsense

I'm all for the exchange of culture as long as it's done respectfully. As was mentioned several times in this thread already, Miley Cyrus immersed herself in black cultural stereotypes to further her career, dropped the act once she was ready to move on, and now tells us that "hip hop is all about sex and cars! I had no idea! Ew I don't want to be associated with that anymore". If this is a respectful exchange of culture then I don't know what is  

I know it sounds like I'm an outraged SJW but I'm really not tbh  And I don't hate Miley either -- just think her comments were in bad taste.

[PunkTheFunk 124,467]

18 hours ago, Bebe said:

It just seems shitty for a white girl to take from hip-hop culture, profit greatly from hip-hop culture only to turn around throw it away, generalise the culture and act as if she is now grown up and above it. It just seems disappointing that when she took from the culture it was empowering and progressive, but now it's just too trashy and demeaning for her.

YES

Why can't people get this through their heads 

[StrawberryBlond 14,880]

24 minutes ago, PunkTheFunk said:

She has some valid points, but I wouldn't go so far as to say all cultural appropriation is nonsense

I'm all for the exchange of culture as long as it's done respectfully. As was mentioned several times in this thread already, Miley Cyrus immersed herself in black cultural stereotypes to further her career, dropped the act once she was ready to move on, and now tells us that "hip hop is all about sex and cars! I had no idea! Ew I don't want to be associated with that anymore". If this is a respectful exchange of culture then I don't know what is  

I know it sounds like I'm an outraged SJW but I'm really not tbh  And I don't hate Miley either -- just think her comments were in bad taste.

It's only a problem when it's done disrespectfully. I was one of the first to criticise Miley for her Bangerz persona and the things she did. I was right there supporting those who said that she used black women as props and was making a mockery of black culture in general. If there was ever a case for distasteful cultural appropriation, this was it. But...what she has said recently has made me give her the benefit of the doubt. She did this when she was younger, wanting to rebel and was naive. I don't think she did all this stuff maliciously, she was just a bit ignorant, especially considering her country music upbringing, sheltered existence and growing up in the public eye. While she hasn't actually apologised for doing anything from the last few years, her words about the rejecting the sexist elements of rap suggest that she regrets the way she presented herself as a sex object during her Bangerz era. If she regrets that, maybe she regrets the way she unintentionally stereotyped and degraded black women in the same time frame.

Miley has stated that she was not talking about all hip hop culture with that remark. As is often the case with celebrity interviews, only the juiciest bits can be printed and certain things they say can be taken out of context, exaggerated and even invented. And like I've been saying before, refusing parts of a culture that involves materialism and sexism is actually a positive thing. I mean, there's materialistic and sexist rap songs I like but I can't bring myself to stop liking them just because I'm against the actual message they're sending. That makes me feel a bit guilty because am I being part of the problem by indulging in the very stuff I'm against? But if anyone can do it, I think it's actually quite admirable that they can put their money where their mouth is. And I notice that no one is criticising her for how she did psychedelic rock for her Dead Petz album and is now dropping it. No one is accusing her for "using" the rock community and then abandoning them when the project flopped. And that right there tells you that most claims of cultural appropriation are built so much around how individuals just want to protect their specific culture and feelings. No one else's culture or feelings matter, just theirs.

See, what gets me about the whole "I have no problem with people enjoying another culture, as long as its done right" theory is the long list of reasons we are then immediately given which makes it extremely difficult to do it according to the standards that these SJWs set. It shows that you have more of a problem with cultural exchange than you claim, if you want to make it so difficult to do it "correctly." And when MTV Decoded did that video about the evils of cultural appropriation, they ended with saying that a way that you can enjoy another culture respectfully is by travelling, going to cookery classes, reading reference books, listening to music and visiting museums. It's like, not only was that banal run-down so obvious that it was insulting to the average person's intelligence but who are they to assume that people engaging in other cultures haven't already done these things when they were accused of cultural appropriation? Another YouTuber took their video and made a response to each option to point out the hypocrisy of their list: Travelling to other countries! Only the tourist areas, though. Taking cookery classes! As long as you don't cook that food yourself, suggesting you could do it better than a native. Listening to music! As long as you don't sing that music out loud. Visiting museums! S**t in the corner. That last one was a joke, obviously. You get the idea. Yes, you can enjoy other cultures, but...here's a long list of ways you can't. And yes, you will still get accused of cultural appropriation even if you have done all the right things because SJWs are just wired to see a white person doing something that isn't "native" and they pounce, rudely ignoring the accepted wisdom to mind one's own business and start lecturing strangers over something they have no context of.

[NCgaga 4,324]

On 5/5/2017 at 4:04 PM, StrawberryBlond said:

@junolxf  @PETTY  @Bebe

You all seem to have made assumptions here. Miley never said that she now disliked all rap, just the stuff that was problematic. Read the quote from her again and you'll see that she had moved on from that stuff but still liked Kendrick. I find it very sad that stating sexism as the reason for why you have chosen to distance yourself from something is seen as something negative. It just shows how much further feminism still has to go. As a woman, Miley more than has the right to dismiss something because she feels it's sexist. It's exactly the same as a person of colour dismissing something because they think its racist. And that attitude is praised and encouraged. So, how come people of colour are allowed to be offended by something but a white woman can't?

@Economy  @Yanko

I think you underestimate how much people's views can change as they get older. Until I was about 17, I was fully supportive of overt sexuality, believed it empowered women and didn't see a problem with it. But then a collection of theories that were put forward to me one day opened my eyes to how much women are socialised since birth to believe this nonsense. Because, surprise, surprise, a culture that wants women to be sexual and has a thriving sex industry has to maintain the belief that overt sexuality is a good thing in the minds of its women. So, they feed us this BS about how being sexual is empowering, that it's a strong feminist statement. And so many women have fallen for this, failing to realise that men are not expressing their sexuality in the same ways, yet are mysteriously getting more respect. Now, not all women come to a stage of enlightenment this big but there comes a time in most women's lives when they reach a certain point where they realise: "This is all a bit degrading, isn't it?" Now, as men, neither of you will be aware of this stage but I can tell you that, as a woman, enduring these feelings makes you really angry at society and you want to change things. Miley was young and naive and wanted to rebel and thought being overtly sexual was cool but now she's woken up to the reality of how doing what she did only helps in degrading women, not empowering them and she was part of the problem, not the solution. With age comes wisdom and people are allowed to change their viewpoints as they age. Humans are adaptable and they grow and their views do not remain the same their entire lives. I know that I am not the same person that I was when I was 20 and I don't expect Miley to be either.

@brownie Keep on doing what you're doing. You're awesome.

I actually find everything you've said to be very offensive. It seems putting down white people and European culture in general is fine because some ignorant people think we have no culture or are stupid and ignorant just by virtue of where we live or the colour of our skin (which is pretty racist and xenophobic). Nobody is saying that Europe is the only continent or that it's the baseline for everything, where on earth did you get that idea? All that's being said is merely: "Americans with their racial obsessions could learn a thing or two from Europe and its colourblind standpoint." More and more Americans, especially the ones who are very PC, are claiming that being colourblind doesn't work when in reality, this idea is operating very well in Europe. Surely history has shown us that when people start to see differences between them and other groups, that's when the problems start? But no, PC American culture insists on not even trying out the concept just to see how it goes. And where do you get the idea that Europeans know nothing about indigenous people or the slave trade? Considering that my country was one of the biggest slave trade capitals of the world, I think you'll find that this history is one we're always reminded of. I am really interested to know where you get the impression that Europeans don't know about this stuff. As a Brit, we're very into American culture, so we are well aware of stereotypes, people making a mockery of culture and the social justice conversation in general. Europe is not cut off from America, we do have the internet and tv to connect us. I've noticed that ever since last year, for the first time ever, I'm starting to get people assuming that I'm uneducated and ignorant about certain things just because I am white, which has been a very frustrating experience for me. But bringing my nationality into it as well? Is that really the way the wind blows?

Is it too much to ask that Americans look outside themselves and see how other nations are dealing with race and see if they're better or worse off for it? And then see if they could emulate some of those ideas? I think when a country becomes too caught up in their way of seeing things, their way of doing things, like America is famous for, they can restrict themselves to limited ideas and perspectives. The reason why America isn't improving in its race relations is because they just keep peddling out systems that have been proven to not work. America likes to do things its own way and thinks they can educate the world on the right path. They don't want to take inspiration from other countries and their way of doing things, even if said countries are thriving and America is not. I feel really sorry for American citizens who are trying to push ideas of colourblindness forward but are getting stifled by the overwhelming idea of segregation that unfortunately pervades millions in their country.

Excuse me? Are you American? As an older American on this forum I can GUARANTEE you that race relations have improved leaps and bounds in America since the 1950s. Do we have a ways to go? Hell yes. But we have made significant strides. Please don't come her spreading falsities about American culture. There is plenty of racism across the world and every human needs to look at themselves and make a change. 

 

[Bebe 17,094]

5 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

@PunkTheFunk

 

@Bebe

I know you've since read the update and liked it, so I won't pursue this much, but even so...

Just because there's no songs in the top ten right now that contained lyrics like the ones Miley talked about does not mean it's not a relevant issue. Whether a degrading song is popular or not, its still been written, it's still out there, its negative messages are still being heard by someone. And people can enjoy old sexist songs from years ago whenever they like thanks to the internet.

And you may say Drake isn't about this kind of thing but after listening to his last two albums, I'm definitely getting a sexist vibe off him. There's more to sexism than telling a girl to get on her knees. It's also about telling her what to do in general, judging her for the things that you yourself are doing and defining her based on your narrow-minded standards. Drake does all this on hotline Bling, which is his most viewed and liked video and probably his second most successful song. I especially hate that line "Going to places where you don't belong." The girl's split up from him and he's still telling her what to do and where to go and saying that she was "a good girl" by staying at home! I actually tried to explain all this to a black member on GGD and they completely dismissed all this, which I thought was highly ironic (apparently, I'm telling black people what they should and shouldn't be offended by, yet he was telling me what I, as a woman, should and shouldn't be offended by).

If Miley has woken up to all this, what's the problem? More women need to wake up and realise how they're being treated by modern culture (in general, not just hip hop culture) because it's not the equal paradise we're told it is.

"Just because there's no songs in the top ten right now that contained lyrics like the ones Miley talked about does not mean it's not a relevant issue. Whether a degrading song is popular or not, its still been written, it's still out there, its negative messages are still being heard by someone. And people can enjoy old sexist songs from years ago whenever they like thanks to the internet."

Sure, but that doesn't seem to be relevant to any point I'm making or the point Miley was making  Like I said - I don't have a problem with Miley calling out such songs - my problems where with her comments generalising the genre.

"And you may say Drake isn't about this kind of thing but after listening to his last two albums, I'm definitely getting a sexist vibe off him"

I do to  It's like you're not even reading my posts. I'd argue Drake's sexist - I already argued The Weeknd and Bruno Mars are sexist - I'd say there is also more subtle sexism found in the discography of Ed Sheeran and Bieber. 

My problem was never with Miley calling out sexism in the music industry  It was about her generalising hip-hop as about 'Lamborghini, got my Rolex, got a girl on my cock’

It was about another user generalising "most of hip hop" as about "sex culture, gangs, money, cars".

That's not what hip-hop is - it's such a diverse genre - and to repeat once more, I don't believe there is no problem with sexism in hip hop at all, my problem was with the generalisation of the entire genre and culture of hip-hop.

"If Miley has woken up to all this, what's the problem? More women need to wake up and realise how they're being treated by modern culture (in general, not just hip hop culture)"

Yeah, it would be nice if the conversation was about the wealth of sexism found in pop music, rock music, country music and every genre and not just a generalisation of one genre because of some idea that every rapper talks about repping their gangs and ****ing girls. The problem isn't her calling out sexism and it never has been  

[Whispering 18,865]

10 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

@PunkTheFunk

I suggest you watch this video for a brilliant look at why cultural appropriation is nonsense. And it was made by an Asian-American (some people in the comments assumed she was white, which is quite ironic):

@Whispering

So, when they're no longer around, will we move on from this idea? Or will we just repeat it until the end of time? When I talk about feminism, I don't bring up the times before women had the vote or the Equal Pay Act came in because that stuff is no longer relevant. I didn't say that you completely refrained from talking about the present but you inevitably started going down that route, which I couldn't help but point out. And I read the news on a daily basis as well, so I'm seeing all the same stuff you are. Which is why I only want to talk about the current stuff.

I'm saying this because you brought up how you were going to reserve your sympathy for certain types of people. Note that when I said "I feel sorry for..." previously, I wasn't meaning "brink of tears sympathy." I just meant general human response of "that's a pity." Hardly as dramatic as the stuff you then brought up.

I've paid respect to your asking me to refrain from quoting big phrases, so could you please pay me the same respect back by not talking to me in such a haughty way?

@Blessed

I don't know if you're referring to Miley, myself or any other members in this topic when she say "I won't listen to some kid" but if I am one of the people you are referring to, I'd like to inform you that I am a 27 year old grown woman with a university degree who has done extensive research on social justice in my spare time and as such, I really don't like it to be assumed that I am ignorant and racist just because I'm white. It's a very unfortunate rumour that's been spread about me recently by certain members who really don't know me and as such, I have to defend myself in ways I've never had to before. No one is saying that we should ignore racism and pretend it doesn't exist, just that it shouldn't be claimed as the reason for why every black person gets mistreated and we shouldn't exaggerate or invent instances of it where none exists. There's a lot of genuine cases of racism that gets talked about but then it gets mingled with claims of 'mistreatment' that has happened to me and many other white people and it's so common that we accept it as part of everyday life but it's somehow mistreatment when it happens to a minority.

@Bebe

I know you've since read the update and liked it, so I won't pursue this much, but even so...

Just because there's no songs in the top ten right now that contained lyrics like the ones Miley talked about does not mean it's not a relevant issue. Whether a degrading song is popular or not, its still been written, it's still out there, its negative messages are still being heard by someone. And people can enjoy old sexist songs from years ago whenever they like thanks to the internet.

And you may say Drake isn't about this kind of thing but after listening to his last two albums, I'm definitely getting a sexist vibe off him. There's more to sexism than telling a girl to get on her knees. It's also about telling her what to do in general, judging her for the things that you yourself are doing and defining her based on your narrow-minded standards. Drake does all this on hotline Bling, which is his most viewed and liked video and probably his second most successful song. I especially hate that line "Going to places where you don't belong." The girl's split up from him and he's still telling her what to do and where to go and saying that she was "a good girl" by staying at home! I actually tried to explain all this to a black member on GGD and they completely dismissed all this, which I thought was highly ironic (apparently, I'm telling black people what they should and shouldn't be offended by, yet he was telling me what I, as a woman, should and shouldn't be offended by).

If Miley has woken up to all this, what's the problem? More women need to wake up and realise how they're being treated by modern culture (in general, not just hip hop culture) because it's not the equal paradise we're told it is.

"......were formed during those years and passed on to children and to their children's children. No, I just gave you specific examples of racism in the past AND the present and explained how both can impact race relationships of today. Did you just ignore all of that in my last three comments? I listen to and read news on a daily basis and when I see or hear stories about racism it is always about something that is happening currently."

BS. I said no such thing. Don't put words in me mouth. 

You quoted me along with everyone else again, so I'm just going to quote the whole comment from now on.

[NCgaga 4,324]

Blah blah blah. You can say there is sexism in every genre, sure- but it is more predominant in POPULAR hip hop music. That is a fact. It's not disputable. Pretending this isn't an issue, is making it more of a problem. Good for Miley for taking a stand, and shame on you for instead of helping shine light on the real problem, turning it into "race" issues. 

[LaBlue 993]

I hope she goes rock

[StrawberryBlond 14,880]

@NCgaga

I'm not saying they haven't improved, but Americans from all walks of life admit things could be better. There's certain stereotypes and ways of looking at certain things that they just can't let go of. This incessant tendency to view black people as ghetto without taking in any other factors is a big issue that is very alien to me as a foreigner, for example. There's stereotypes towards certain races in America that we don't have in Europe. Not saying that things haven't improved since the 50's, I'm just saying that there's a way to go, just like you're saying. I'm on your side.

@Bebe

But you've read the update to the article where she makes it clear she wasn't trying to generalise and the snippet of the interview just made it sound that way. So, why are you still arguing that she was generalising when she cleared it up? The only reason that she brought up the sexism in urban music alone was because that was the genre she was associated with up until recently and she was asked about it, clearly. So, she took the opportunity to say that she had problems with said genre. Why would she have talked about any other genre? Maybe she'll talk about the problems with sexism in other genres in the future but for now, she was asked about the one she was most recently associated with. Again, why do we treat urban music as some sort of sacred entity that you speak about wrongly on pain of death? Plenty of other genres have been misrepresented or disrespected but it's only a massive problem when it's urban music. You can talk about the problems of any other genre and reserve your criticism purely for that genre and it's fine. But when its done to urban music, you're being too generalising, you're misrepresenting the breadth of the genre, you're being ignorant and racist and what about other genres that are much worse? It essentially goes like this:

"I want to talk about sexism in hip hop."

"Now, hold on, there's lots of respectful rap out there that's good, rap's more respectful than its ever been, what about those country songs that want women to stay at home?"

"Yes, that's a problem, but that's a topic for another day. For now, I'd like to focus on rap."

"But there's lots of rap songs that don't have problems!"

"Yes, but obviously, those aren't the ones I'm going to be talking about..."

See the problem? Too afraid to tackle the subject at hand because it's too close to home. It's no different to men whose first response to "I'd like to talk about feminism" is "Men can suffer sexism too!" It totally supports the idea that men are raised in society to believe that they are the most important and every subject has to be brought back to them, even when the subject is about women! One of the most annoying people in the world is the person whose first response to "I'd like to talk about x," is "why aren't we talk about y an z?" It's just typical of a society that immediately tries to divert attention away from the subject at hand because its realities are too harsh to admit, so the course of action is to switch to another target.

@Whispering

I don't understand what you're saying or why you repeated your own quote. And I quoted you how you asked and I'm currently doing it. You said to stop making direct quotes (in other words, refraining from hitting the quote button because a big long, quoted post with multiple others takes up the thread and is a chore to read), so I used the @ function instead. That's what I'm doing now. What else am I supposed to do? I'm not going to make separate posts for every person. This is how everyone on the forum operates.

[Lord Temptation 11,209]

The hip hop industry used Miley as much as she used them. The industry is dirty, but her hands aren't exactly clean. Still, I'm glad she's speaking out. But I worry for her now.

[brownie 5]

1 hour ago, Lord Temptation said:

The hip hop industry used Miley as much as she used them. The industry is dirty, but her hands aren't exactly clean. Still, I'm glad she's speaking out. But I worry for her now.

This is what people don't get -- people call her a hypocrite, but TONS of rappers were lining up to rap with her and Mike-Will. Bangerz was a huge success that many profited from, not just her.

[Bebe 17,094]

9 hours ago, StrawberryBlond said:

 

@Bebe

But you've read the update to the article where she makes it clear she wasn't trying to generalise and the snippet of the interview just made it sound that way. So, why are you still arguing that she was generalising when she cleared it up? The only reason that she brought up the sexism in urban music alone was because that was the genre she was associated with up until recently and she was asked about it, clearly. So, she took the opportunity to say that she had problems with said genre. Why would she have talked about any other genre? Maybe she'll talk about the problems with sexism in other genres in the future but for now, she was asked about the one she was most recently associated with. Again, why do we treat urban music as some sort of sacred entity that you speak about wrongly on pain of death? Plenty of other genres have been misrepresented or disrespected but it's only a massive problem when it's urban music. You can talk about the problems of any other genre and reserve your criticism purely for that genre and it's fine. But when its done to urban music, you're being too generalising, you're misrepresenting the breadth of the genre, you're being ignorant and racist and what about other genres that are much worse? It essentially goes like this:

"I want to talk about sexism in hip hop."

"Now, hold on, there's lots of respectful rap out there that's good, rap's more respectful than its ever been, what about those country songs that want women to stay at home?"

"Yes, that's a problem, but that's a topic for another day. For now, I'd like to focus on rap."

"But there's lots of rap songs that don't have problems!"

"Yes, but obviously, those aren't the ones I'm going to be talking about..."

See the problem? Too afraid to tackle the subject at hand because it's too close to home. It's no different to men whose first response to "I'd like to talk about feminism" is "Men can suffer sexism too!" It totally supports the idea that men are raised in society to believe that they are the most important and every subject has to be brought back to them, even when the subject is about women! One of the most annoying people in the world is the person whose first response to "I'd like to talk about x," is "why aren't we talk about y an z?" It's just typical of a society that immediately tries to divert attention away from the subject at hand because its realities are too harsh to admit, so the course of action is to switch to another target.

 

I'm not pretending like anything, I liked the post that showed that she herself had acknowledged how her original comments made it seem like she was generalising the entire culture - which would have been problematic (hence her follow up post was necessary). Obviously she also saw how problematic the interview came across which is why she called out the interviewers.


I'm not expecting Miley to start talking about problems with sexism in the opera  I'm not expecting her to add a disclaimer to every conversation about sexism in hip hop with "But also it's in every other genre too". It's just clear that her first comments seemed to generalise what hip-hop is.
 

""I want to talk about sexism in hip hop."

"Now, hold on, there's lots of respectful rap out there that's good, rap's more respectful than its ever been, what about those country songs that want women to stay at home?"

"Yes, that's a problem, but that's a topic for another day. For now, I'd like to focus on rap."

"But there's lots of rap songs that don't have problems!"

"Yes, but obviously, those aren't the ones I'm going to be talking about...""

That's not a conversation anyone here would have  Like I keep saying, I don't care about her addressing sexism in hip-hop - that's fine. You are arguing against a point i'm not making. The problem with the original comments was that she generalised the hip-hop genre as about lamborghini's, rolexes and 'bitches' sitting on a cock. The problem with the original post thay I quoted in this thread was that they said "Most" hip-hop is about that. It's not. You can criticise the misogyny and sexism in hip-hop songs without generalising the genre.

[Guest]

I really like her views, she is so right about oversexualization and hip hop! She has matured so much...i totally love her! 

[Cody Draco 2,531]

Miley is just growing up and maturing. 

Gaga isn't still singing about disco sticks is she?